mcgoo Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 Just had to share, advance apologies for the long read Ive been sideman for the same singer-songwriter for the better part of 14 years now- a gal named Jennie DeVoe. Shes done pretty well in Indy & surrounding areas and has released 5 CDs. We play mostly original material, the other players are great & were all good friends and the gig pays close to as well as high dollar corporate bands, so theres not much to complain about with the gig. Recently, she got invited to do a co-headlining gig (with an equally successful jazz violinist here in town) with the Indianapolis Chamber Orchestra. Jennie said yes without really thinking through, or knowing what she was getting herself into. She said she wanted to use me on the gig so I could be a musical liaison between the orchestra and her. When I asked her who was doing the arrangements, she didnt know. Guess who got stuck doing the arrangements? This was an exciting opportunity, but pretty intimidating. I took piano lessons as a kid, and studied a decent amount of music theory. But I never had any training in orchestration. Truth be told, Im a pretty poor notation reader, a handicap Im certainly not proud of. Through work (staff composer at a production studio) Ive done a decent amount of orchestral mockups, but that never involved creating a score that an orchestra could read. I do write out parts & charts for session players all the time, so I at least knew how to do that. So my challenge was to create arrangements that would be true to Jennies style as an artist, take advantage of the colors an orchestra brings to the table. And not have the conductor go what the heck is this mess when he first looks at my scores. I created some pretty detailed mockups- I arrange by ear, with lots of experimenting- try this, listen. Sucks? Ditch, try something else. repeat. This allowed me to make sure everything worked musically before putting it on paper, and allowed Jennie to hear what I was planning to do with her music. The smartest thing I did, was to take advantage of one of my greatest resources- the KC forum. I sent Cygnus 64 a PM asking for a little advice, that led to numerous exchanges, and ultimately led me to arm twist him into everything from proof reading to taking MIDI files and creating the scores to fixing some playability problems or note range issues. Basically finding solutions for all the things that uncovered my arranging ignorance, of which there were many. We both use Sibelius, but different versions, so we could trade .sib files one way- from there it was either MIDI files, or .xml files. We were sometimes trading files multiple times per day. Jennie also commissioned him to arrange a cover of an Amy Winehouse tune for the gig. Cygnus 64 rocks. Just sayin. Well, some 200+ hours later, the scores are done & delivered. The gig itself isnt until next month, and the 1st rehearsal isnt until the day before so thats when Ill truly know whether my efforts worked, or whether Im a complete idiot for taking on such a task. Itll definitely be one for the bucket list- either wow, that was awesome, gotta try & do that again or OMG, NEVER again!!!. Either way, cant wait. Thanks for reading. http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa357/mcgooze/2011-10-04_11-57-00_886.jpg Custom Music, Audio Post Production, Location Audio www.gmma.biz https://www.facebook.com/gmmamusic/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Muscara Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 You MUST keep us updated on the gig. "I'm so crazy, I don't know this is impossible! Hoo hoo!" - Daffy Duck "The good news is that once you start piano you never have to worry about getting laid again. More time to practice!" - MOI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Force Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 Great read! Steve Force, Durham, North Carolina -------- My Professional Websites Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ITGITC Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 Repeating what I've said many times... This forum ROCKS. Happy Weekend, guys. "Music expresses that which cannot be put into words and that which cannot remain silent." - Victor Hugo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tusker Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 Cygnus 64 rocks. Just sayin. A very cool read Greg. You rock too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernMeister Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 Kudos all around. Orchestration, real orchestration, is challenging to say the least. Here's hoping the experience worked in your favor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Beaumont Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 Way to go guys! I can't wait to read the update on the performance! Boards: Kurzweil SP-6, Roland FA-08, VR-09, DeepMind 12 Modules: Korg Radias, Roland D-05, Bk7-m & Sonic Cell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cygnus64 Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 Well, some 200+ hours later, That sounds kinda low actually. Greg is a VERY talented guy. His arrangements are right on the money: clear, musical, exciting, meticulous. The music is not the usual "play it with orchestra" variety: The Singer (who is excellent) is more from the Janis Joplin school than the "Selections from 'Wicked'" school that most orchestras are familiar with. There were challenges in bringing this type of rock into an orchestral environment, and he did a terrific job. I did an Amy Winehouse chart, which shows stylistically the general type of genre that was involved. For those who haven't done anything like this, there is a LOT involved. A typical score has nineteen parts. Orchestra people can be VERY picky, we made sure that the parts were great. I think I found somebody in Greg who is even more meticulous than I am. I'm pretty sure that's a big compliment overall. We found some rhythms that were written technically correct but could be more readable if notated another way, and we did. The orchestra, conductor and management will be overjoyed with his work, they rarely get charts of this quality. I can't begin to describe how much work was involved in this, it's like writing a Doctoral thesis. and the 1st rehearsal isnt until the day before This is rare, and a luxury. Usually, there is one rehearsal only, on the DAY of the show from 2-5. Having a second rehearsal the night before is like a Cordoba with Rich Corinthian Leather, it's stylin'. I doubt you'd even need it since the parts are in such good shape, you'll just read them down and go right through them. Everyone within driving range should go check out the show. I would drive out from Ohio except I have a classical gig that nite. I don't think he mentioned it, but he'll be playing with the orchestra too as keyboardist. This will be more like a mini- music director job than he realizes. It's like being Paul Shaffer except there is a conductor there, but he'll be relying on Greg to be the Rock. There is no rhythm section per se, there is only an orchestral bass player (playing acoustic upright) and an orchestral drummer on set. The Timpani player will be doubling on some hand percussion, but it's basically rock music with a barebones "band". In other words, he IS the "band". The bass parts are written out note for note. The drum parts are too, to a small extent. There are no guitars. Man, that harp player is going to have a rough nite. It's going to be a great evening. The last song on the program, "Faster Johnny" will knock the audiences socks off, I guarantee it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcgoo Posted October 7, 2011 Author Share Posted October 7, 2011 I think I found somebody in Greg who is even more meticulous than I am. I think the phrase I've heard others used to describe me is "anal retentive son of a ....." Thanks for the kind words Dave. I'm humbled & flattered. Custom Music, Audio Post Production, Location Audio www.gmma.biz https://www.facebook.com/gmmamusic/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cygnus64 Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 I think I found somebody in Greg who is even more meticulous than I am. I think the phrase I've heard others used to describe me is "anal retentive son of a ....." It's probably the # 1 quality needed for the gig. You're dealing with a strange, bizarre sub-species in orchestral players. One dot missing in measure #65 and they go crying to Mommy. I played with this tap-dancer dude a few years ago, the "Bring in da Noise" guy (Savion??). You should have seen the charts. The players were actually pretty cool about it because he was such a nice guy, but the parts were a mess. He kept saying "Oh yeah man, just kinda jam there" to classical cellists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickd Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 Looks great. Any chance it's going to be videoed and we can all watch some of the concert on YouTube once you're done? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffLearman Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 Or better yet, a good recording we can listen to? Kudos to you both, and break a leg! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcgoo Posted October 7, 2011 Author Share Posted October 7, 2011 Thanks...! As far as I know it will get recorded. I think it'll get broadcast on WFYI locally after the fact. If that happens, Jennie will also be able to put some portion of it on her website. I'll update this as I learn more. Custom Music, Audio Post Production, Location Audio www.gmma.biz https://www.facebook.com/gmmamusic/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Link Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 I LOVE this whole story. Sounds a little like learning to swim by jumping into the deep end of the pool. aka âmisterdregsâ Nord Electro 5D 73 Yamaha P105 Kurzweil PC3LE7 Motion Sound KP200S Schimmel 6-10LE QSC CP-12 Westone AM Pro 30 IEMs Rolls PM55P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Force Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 OK, now let us see the REST of your Bucket List! Steve Force, Durham, North Carolina -------- My Professional Websites Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offnote Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 And not have the conductor go what the heck is this mess when he first looks at my scores. Let us know how conductor will take it, I would worry about that the most :grin: arranging for a band is sometimes challenging and for a whole orchestra, damn... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cygnus64 Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 Thanks...! As far as I know it will get recorded. I think it'll get broadcast on WFYI locally after the fact. If that happens, Jennie will also be able to put some portion of it on her website. Maybe. Maybe not. Since it's a Union gig, each Union local has different rules on who can use what for what purpose. My local would not allow someone to do this, Indy may have entirely different rules. In general, recordings are easily used privately. For example, you could send it to someone who wants to hear your arrangements, or she could do something similar. And you can send it to someone in Ohio too. When the internet gets involved, inevitably someone gets their panties in a bunch and starts crying. The whole thing is kind of silly but it is what it is. It's not like there aren't zillions of these things on Youtube. We had a situation here where an orch. did a pops show and someone put it on CD and gave it away or sold it or something, I forget. The orch eventually had to pay each player 40 bucks. There's always one orch. member who is Union Gestapo, nobody else cares at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcgoo Posted October 7, 2011 Author Share Posted October 7, 2011 Thanks...! As far as I know it will get recorded. I think it'll get broadcast on WFYI locally after the fact. If that happens, Jennie will also be able to put some portion of it on her website. Maybe. Maybe not. Since it's a Union gig, each Union local has different rules on who can use what for what purpose. My local would not allow someone to do this, Indy may have entirely different rules. In general, recordings are easily used privately. For example, you could send it to someone who wants to hear your arrangements, or she could do something similar. And you can send it to someone in Ohio too. When the internet gets involved, inevitably someone gets their panties in a bunch and starts crying. The whole thing is kind of silly but it is what it is. It's not like there aren't zillions of these things on Youtube. We had a situation here where an orch. did a pops show and someone put it on CD and gave it away or sold it or something, I forget. The orch eventually had to pay each player 40 bucks. There's always one orch. member who is Union Gestapo, nobody else cares at all. Yeah that has been discussed already. Nobody can sell any kind of a recording of the performance because of the whole union thing. The ICO has some type of ongoing arrangement with WFYI where they'll play portions of past performances- I don't really know about any details about that... but when asked if she was ok with that, Jennie had the smarts to stipulate that if the ICO can use it for promotion, so can she via her website. That's as much as I know so far. Custom Music, Audio Post Production, Location Audio www.gmma.biz https://www.facebook.com/gmmamusic/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedKey Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 You MUST keep us updated on the gig. Yes, please. I'm in need of an excuse to go to Indy. Really great stuff, guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanS Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 Great story, and nice to see forumites scratching each other's backs. One good thing in all of this, is if the scores do suck, you can always blame everything on Cyg! What we record in life, echoes in eternity. Yamaha Montage M7, Nord Electro 6D, Hammond XK1c, Dave Smith PolyEvolver & Rack, Moog Voyager, Modal Cobalt 8X, Univox MiniKorg. https://www.abandoned-film.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 This is such a great story! I'm very impressed by the talents on this forum. I can't believe how buttoned up you guys are to have this done so far in advance! If it were me (not saying I have any orchestration acumen), I'd be lucky to finish in time for the rehearsal! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanker. Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 Greg who? A ROMpler is just a polyphonic turntable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcgoo Posted October 7, 2011 Author Share Posted October 7, 2011 One good thing in all of this, is if the scores do suck, you can always blame everything on Cyg! Yeah baby! I can't believe how buttoned up you guys are to have this done so far in advance! If it were me (not saying I have any orchestration acumen), I'd be lucky to finish in time for the rehearsal! Well, I had no choice. I was supposed to get it turned in by Oct 1st, so theyd have time to do bowings (where they plan where the strings go up, down, hither & yonder). I cheated a few extra days since Oct 1st fell on a Saturday (& the office was closed). I missed the deadline because the printers either wanted all my charts formatted differently or wanted to take a few body parts of mine to pay for them to do the extra formatting. I chose to keep aforementioned body parts, so I was a day late turning in the scores & parts. Custom Music, Audio Post Production, Location Audio www.gmma.biz https://www.facebook.com/gmmamusic/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cygnus64 Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 One good thing in all of this, is if the scores do suck, you can always blame everything on Cyg! But if they are good, I'll just claim all the glory: "Yeah, I did everything for him. To be nice, I let him put write a couple of bassoon notes." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yannis D Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 This forum rocks as said! Doing arrangements could be a life time opportunity, so grab it! I'm sure it's gonna be just fine with the arrangements and the collaboration. You already gained so much experience with all +200 hours of hard work. This might help in a future project! Good luck. Be grateful for what you've got - a Nord, a laptop and two hands Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reidmc Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 Congrats! I've been involved in scores of these projects. (Pun intented.) Echoing Cygnus, they are tough to do, and even tougher to do well. Tip: In advance of rehearsal, get as much time as you can with the conductor, even if it is only 30 minutes before rehearsal, and focus on the "feel" of each chart. Feel = key rhythmic aspects and anything important that is not written on the score or parts, like balance issues. "The Doomer allows the player to do things beyond which are possible without the accessory." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewImprov Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 Damn, that sounds like a cool project! A few years ago, I was engineering an album for a singer songwriter, and she suggested having a string quartet on one tune. So she called around, and found some players and we booked a day. A couple of days before the session, I asked her about arrangements for the strings, and she said something like, I dunno, I just figured they'd listen to that track and jam on something. Knowing classical players, I knew this wasn't going to fly. So I spent the next 2 days writing out parts, pulling out my old college orchestration books, mocking up parts in Logic, drinking a LOT of coffee. The quartet came in, played whatever we put in front of them beautifully, even the whole note pads just came alive. It made me really wish I'd had more time to spend writing for them. Turn up the speaker Hop, flop, squawk It's a keeper -Captain Beefheart, Ice Cream for Crow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ionian Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 Gratz! I've done this kind of work and make part of my living as an arranger and orchestrator and plenty of times I've handed off arrangements where the ink was still wet! Actually recently, I finished the orchestrations at 7am for a 9am rehearsal. So any down time you might have had is a luxury! It can be an incredibly frustrating process but when it's all over you'll love hearing what your mockups will sound like when played by real musicians! Enjoy the moment! Frank www.frankperri.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcgoo Posted October 7, 2011 Author Share Posted October 7, 2011 Tip: In advance of rehearsal, get as much time as you can with the conductor, even if it is only 30 minutes before rehearsal, and focus on the "feel" of each chart. Feel = key rhythmic aspects and anything important that is not written on the score or parts, like balance issues. That sounds like great advice. Jennie is all about groove, and having enough space for her voice to cut thru & her lyrics to be absorbed, so she's pretty worried about being over powered. A couple of these pieces have a swing feel, and a dirty, greasy rhythm section is pretty hard to translate to an orch, especially for a noobie like me. So, if I can bend his ear a little before we start, it may make things a lot easier. Custom Music, Audio Post Production, Location Audio www.gmma.biz https://www.facebook.com/gmmamusic/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJUSCULE Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 Awesome gig! Keep us posted! Eric Website Gear page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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