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Hook-up/Mixing Question....


metromike

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I just picked up a A&H mixwiz3 16:2 for my band....I am not a sound guy, but based on rave reviews I thought this would be good for the group.

 

Question...for you gigging keys peeps....do I plug right into the main mixer or do a sub-mix?? I really have no idea! I am a technical idiot...Use a direct box, plug right in....etc...

 

If you guys could give me thoughts on how you 'plug in' I would greatly appreciate it!! Thanks!!!!

Gear: Roland RD700, Yamaha MotifES6, Roland Fantom FA76, Roland JP-8000, Roland AX-7, Roland Juno-106.
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Far too many things not mentioned in your post to be able to give you a definitive answer, so I'll request that you please provide explicit details of your gig situation(s), including what board(s) you're using (presumably you don't bring everything in your .sig to the gigs ;) ), and what else is running through the mixer with the rest of the band.

 

So, if you please, more information so that we can help you. :thu:

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We use the same mixer, it's great.

Not a complicated piece, but you're going to need to learn some mixer 101 first. Look on A&H's site to see if the have basic hookup diagrams that you can study (although I believe there's a few in the manual. We'll be able to help a lot more if you have a basic idea of how the board is layed out.

What we record in life, echoes in eternity.

 

MOXF8, Electro 6D, XK1c, Motif XSr, PEKPER, Voyager, Univox MiniKorg.

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Far too many things not mentioned in your post to be able to give you a definitive answer, so I'll request that you please provide explicit details of your gig situation(s), including what board(s) you're using (presumably you don't bring everything in your .sig to the gigs ;) ), and what else is running through the mixer with the rest of the band.

 

So, if you please, more information so that we can help you. :thu:

 

Just RD-700 and Motif ES...The drummer mics the drums..only bass, snare and one overhead...3 singers, bass, guitar, etc...

Gear: Roland RD700, Yamaha MotifES6, Roland Fantom FA76, Roland JP-8000, Roland AX-7, Roland Juno-106.
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Just RD-700 and Motif ES...The drummer mics the drums..only bass, snare and one overhead...3 singers, bass, guitar, etc...

 

What's your personal monitoring situation? When I said details, I meant details. ;)

 

Given that scenario, you're fine going direct into the board, provided that you're in close proximity to the mixer. If it's on stage with you, you can run 1/4" cables from your keyboards to the mixer. That, however, doesn't provide you an option for independent on-stage monitoring of just your keys.

 

If you've got a keyboard amp or powered speaker on stage, your best option is to run from the keys into a DI, which will give you a pass-through to the amp, with a balanced XLR to go to the mixer. That allows you to independently set up your own stage volume that doesn't alter the mix if you change levels.

 

A DI is also recommended to provide the ability to lift the ground on your system in bars with noisy power and suspect wiring.

 

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Mike,

I have a 3 board set up and sub mix. I send a feed to my monitor, the level of which I can control, and I send a feed to the PA head (the level of which I can ALSO control!) :rawk::taz:

 

Most of our gigs we do our own sound. Are you doing your own sound from the stage? That is an important detail. That's why Sven conditioned his reply.

 

Regards,

Joe

 

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I use a MixWiz as the main mixer in my PA setup. I use a Yamaha MG12/4FX as my keyboard "sub-mixer" - to which I connect my Yamaha CP300, RD700SX and Motif ES Rack unit (all connected in "stereo" which uses 6 of the 12 channels on the Yamaha Mixer).

 

My bands are both 6 piece affairs which between the 6 vocal mics, a pair of effect returns, plus instruments - end up using all 16 channels on the MixWiz. Therefore I use the other available channels on the Yamaha for things like my iPod, any "special guests" we might be hosting, etc.

 

The Left and Right "Main" outputs of the Yamaha mixer get patched into a Behring DI800 (a rack mounted DI box) - and from there into two channels on the MixWiz. The "Group I/II" outputs (essentially a subgroup) gets patched into my stage amp (a QSC RMX1450 that powers a pair of JBL JRX112M monitor wedges). An AUX SEND (which carries a monitor mix) from the MixWiz gets patched into 1 channel of the Yamaha mixer.

 

When it's all connected - the Main send of the Yamaha gets set during sound check (in conjunction with setting the input gain on the MixWiz) - and doesn't get touched the rest of the night. The Group I/II slider controls my stage volume as necessary throughout the night. The channel fader on Channel 1 (my "monitor" mix) controls the amount of "monitor send" that gets mixed into my stage mix.

 

The setup works great for me - and gives me great control over what I sent to the FOH as well as what I hear on stage. It's far too nice a setup for a hack like me!

 

The following connectivity diagram shows the whole thing. (On a side note - I've documented every "signal chain" in my PA in this manner (i.e., path from board to FOH speakers, path from board to monitors, etc.) and have a hard copy in a sleeve attached on the inside of my FOH rack. It's saved my bacon more than once when troubleshooting a problem at a gig. It's way too easy to forget just how you wired something up when you're staring at the back of a "well dressed" rack whose innards you haven't touched since the last time you rewired it 2+ years ago!)

 

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The SpaceNorman :freak:
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I thought this would be good for the group. If you guys could give me thoughts on how you 'plug in' I would greatly appreciate it!! Thanks!!!!

 

Metromike: if you're at the gig with your wife or significant other, do NOT hookup! Don't even mix. And if you need to ask the keyboard musos about 'plugging in', you're missing your best resource. Ask your drummer.

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In case you didn't get it from the above, the next question for us to help you is how you monitor your keyboards.

 

Most of us have a small PA or powered speaker (or two) for our keyboard monitors. We plug our keyboards into that and a feed from that into the mains (as needed).

 

For small venues I often don't feed the mains and just use my stage monitors for my keyboards. After all, the guitar & bass aren't miked.

 

In places where the other instruments are miked, I'll send a feed to the mains.

 

You'd use the MixWiz for your mains and vocal monitors. Depending on what you have for keyboard monitors, you might need to use it to feed some keyboards into the vocal monitors and maybe feed yourself a keyboard monitor. Avoid getting much keyboards in the vocal monitors, though. It's hard enough for vocalists to hear themselves singing without blasted keyboards in there, and the presence of full-spectrum keyboards really increases the demands on the monitor system (amp cleanliness, power, and monitor speaker quality).

 

Get the idea? A little more feedback on what you have & what you're thinking. Also, is this for practice or parties or gigs or what? (For most of us, we rely on the venue's gear for the mix & monitors. We only need a mixer like this for outdoor gigs & parties where there's no venue providing it. And we use them for practice -- but usually just for vocal monitors. You shouldn't need a full PA for rehearsal.)

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Thanks for the advice everyone...sorry I was not to specific, but this is all pretty new to me and somehow I was elected "sound guy" in my new group.

 

We are shooting to play mostly weddings, so this would entail bringing the gear to each event and having the mixer near me on stage doing the sound from there.

 

Lots of good input here...I will sift through it and do some experimenting....thanks

Gear: Roland RD700, Yamaha MotifES6, Roland Fantom FA76, Roland JP-8000, Roland AX-7, Roland Juno-106.
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Lucky you to be designated sound guy! ;-)

 

I usually ended up with that "pleasure" since I own PA gear, and since I have a clue.

 

If at all possible, find a friend who's willing to learn to run sound for you out front, rather than mixing from stage. The problem with mixing from stage is that you can't hear how it sounds out front, so you're playing a guessing game. With experience, some people can get good at it, but it takes time and understanding.

 

When I have to mix from stage, I make sure there's someone in the audience whose judgement I trust for feedback on what needs to be done. That's harder than it sounds, and if you get N people to do it, you'll generally get N contradictory opinions.

 

You do not need any DI box or submix between your keyboards and the mixer: just go direct. A DI box (from hi-impedance to balaned low impedance) is necessary when the mixer is distant and reached via a long mic snake.

 

A submixer for keys is very helpful to the kb player for some situations, but if you'll be mixing from stage, then probably not.

 

That MixWiz3 is a lot-o-mixer, more than you'll need for the job, which is always nice. With 6 aux buses (2 pre, 2 switchable together, and 2 post), you'll have all the monitoring and FX sends you'll need. A nice bit of kit there.

 

So, what do you have for power and speakers? That's going to be the limiting factor, not the mixer.

 

Re the drum mics: sending kick to mains is a big help. Snare maybe. Overheads, not likely, unless these are really big wedding venues. Most bands are too loud for weddings to begin with, and don't MORE volume! If the drummer needs overheads in the mix, then the bass &/or guitar is too loud.

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Thanks a lot Learjeff...great advice.

 

I have 2 Mackie SA1521 powered speakers and 2 Mackie powered subs. Also, some misc. effect racks....I have a couple of old JBL Eons that I used to use for monitors, but some of the guys have IEM's they want to use. Hopefully, this stuff will be sufficient to get us started. Thanks again!

Gear: Roland RD700, Yamaha MotifES6, Roland Fantom FA76, Roland JP-8000, Roland AX-7, Roland Juno-106.
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Call me crazy, but file this under "What goes around comes around".

 

Very first band... I was knee-high to a chicken. We rehearsed in my garage and used the PA mains off to the side and a little behind us - no monitors. Of course, as everyone here knows, you can't raise the volume too much without feedback. Back then we had the cheapest omni-directional mics... and the cheapest mains with horns that were borrowed from the PA system of a schoolyard. :sick:

 

Of course it sounded really bad with lots of feedback. BUT... with this setup you do hear what the audience hears. With a PA that uses both a mains system out in front of the band and a separate system for monitors, you're obviously not hearing the same mix that the audience does.

 

At a recent gig, our guitarist said, "Put the mains behind us. We're playing at a low enough volume that we probably won't get feedback - AND we'll hear exactly what the audience hears."

 

It turned out to be a good idea even though I was SURE we were going to get lots of feedback.

 

I can't stress enough how important this is when you don't have a sound guy out front monitoring your signal from the audience's perspective.

 

If you are playing at low volumes, this could be a better-sounding setup. It's a heck of a lot simpler. Chances are you won't be too loud. And your mix will be better balanced since you hear what the audience hears.

 

Sure, it might not won't work for you, depending on the size of the venue and how loudly you have to play.

 

But it might. :cool:

 

Tom

 

"Music expresses that which cannot be put into words and that which cannot remain silent." - Victor Hugo
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