BluMunk Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 Just ran across this in my local craigslist. I'm pretty sure that is against the license for all the software listed to re-sell the products. Particularly if you're just selling it "installed" (ie, not providing disks, manuals, etc). So, I 'flagged' it. Not sure if it's the sort of thing craigslist cares about, but it just seems so clearly illegal. Am I right on this, or am I being over sensitive? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sven Golly Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 You're right, unless the original install media and all licenses are being transferred with the sale. Given 90% of society, I'm guessing that won't happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnchop Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 Never mind that they advertise for $900 in the ad's title and $700 in the body. Wheeeeee! I make software noises. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richwhite9 Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 Were you protecting the consumer? That's not my read. I don't lose sleep over used software sales or a notebook on Ebay with MS Office installed and no mention of disk or license..... That could be a F/T job if it really bugs you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offnote Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 So, I 'flagged' it. Not sure if it's the sort of thing craigslist cares about, but it just seems so clearly illegal. Am I right on this, or am I being over sensitive? you don't know the details and conditions of the potential transaction so I don't understand why do you play a policemen here... http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-9D8BJBiK3z0/TbTyvFK5yjI/AAAAAAAAQus/QVcgDstFnVo/s1600/tackleberry-police-academy.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffLearman Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 This doesn't look like a piracy scheme. The reason for these overly restrictive licences (which are usually unenforceable since they violate the "right of first sale" doctrine in the US) is to avoid piracy. Avoiding piracy is a valid concern. I feel for software vendors who face this issue. I understand their use of licences and restrictions to help thwart it. But it's a crying shame that we can't buy a product, use it, and when it no longer meets our needs, sell it to someone whose needs it does meet. And, in the US, this is legal, if I understand it correctly. As Sven says, you have to transfer the media and you must remove it and destroy any copies you've made. Since this is a one-time sale and includes a computer, it's certainly not a typical piracy scheme. At worst, the seller plans to keep the software (on a new machine) while selling the old machine all nicely set up. That would be illegal, immoral, and fattening. But at least it wouldn't be high volume piracy. In answer to Richwhite, the OP would be protecting the software manufacturers, which in the long run protects the consumers (just as stopping shoplifting helps keep prices down). Personally, I wouldn't flag it because it could fall on either side of the law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluMunk Posted August 17, 2011 Author Share Posted August 17, 2011 Yeah, I don't know. It's not like I'm going to lose sleep over it, it's just that: a) it is illegal. If I sold my computer with Sibelius on it (which I purchased with an educational license), it would be wrong. It would be illegal. Yes, not the worst thing a person could do, but also not a gray area, morally. Re-selling the disks privately is one thing, but retaining ownership of the program while also selling a copy to someone else? Bad. b) it is also a bad deal for the purchaser. As soon as the hard drive goes, or you have to reformat, or something goes wrong, you lose the software, because you don't actually own the license to it. Selling a 'loaded' machine without the actual disks/keys/licenses is like selling a time bomb to the consumer. At some point in the not so distant future, the software you are buying will become unusable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Schmieder Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 We set up an anti-piracy program at the MOTU forum a few years ago, and subscribers get emails as soon as an ad shows up that looks very probable to be pirated software. It does get them shut down, but sometimes they sprout up again. At any rate, we like to think it at least slows them down and minimizes the damage. Eugenio Upright, 60th Anniversary P-Bass, USA Geddy Lee J-Bass, Yamaha BBP35, D'angelico SS Bari, EXL1, Select Strat, 70th Anniversary Esquire, LP 57, Eastman T486, T64, Ibanez PM2, Hammond XK4, Moog Voyager Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MojoGuyPan Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 Looks like we have ourselves a tattletale. Did you happen to go to a catholic girls school? You always keep your mouth shut. What kind of man are you? First off, it's none of your business what this guy is doing on craig's list. Second, I say that any EULA that doesn't allow you to sell your old software is bogus and I thumb my nose at it. I'm sure it's in there to try to reduce piracy say with me buying the new Sibelius, installing it and the selling the installation DVD to the next cat who's going to do the same thing but that ain't my problem. If I legitimately am giving up on Reason and want to sell it on eBay, I am going to do it. Software should be like books and music if I've read Wuthering Heights for the final time and want to sell it or give it away I should be able to, the same with my old Sinatra LPs. This new school BS of not really owning what you buy, whether it is music, books, software, video games, and only purchasing a license to use the items is not right and should not be supported by little ginnywomen ratting people out on eBay and craigslist. With enough BluMunks in the world pretty soon we won't be able to sell our used cars or TV's we'll only be licensing the right to use them from The Man. He's already raping us six ways to Sunday. Why help him leech even more money out of us by eliminating the market for used and pre-owned goods. Peace, Big D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offnote Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 First off, it's none of your business what this guy is doing on craig's list. Second, I say that any EULA that doesn't allow you to sell your old software is bogus and I thumb my nose at it. I'm sure it's in there to try to reduce piracy say with me buying the new Sibelius, installing it and the selling the installation DVD to the next cat who's going to do the same thing but that ain't my problem. If I legitimately am giving up on Reason and want to sell it on eBay, I am going to do it. Software should be like books and music if I've read Wuthering Heights for the final time and want to sell it or give it away I should be able to, the same with my old Sinatra LPs. This new school BS of not really owning what you buy, whether it is music, books, software, video games, and only purchasing a license to use the items is not right and should not be supported by little ginnywomen ratting people out on eBay and craigslist. With enough BluMunks in the world pretty soon we won't be able to sell our used cars or TV's we'll only be licensing the right to use them from The Man. He's already raping us six ways to Sunday. Why help him leech even more money out of us by eliminating the market for used and pre-owned goods. Peace, Big D. Couldn't agree more. Soon we're gonna be leasing spouses too. Woops, we already are....forgot. :grin: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frogmonkey Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 Marsalone, the guy isn't selling the software that he bought- he is selling a *copy* of the software (on the computer) while presumably retaining the discs. So it's more like selling a photocopy of Wuthering Heights and keeping the original. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluMunk Posted August 18, 2011 Author Share Posted August 18, 2011 Looks like we have ourselves a tattletale. Did you happen to go to a catholic girls school? You always keep your mouth shut. What kind of man are you? Peace, Big D. Well, actually, I pretty much agree philosophically and in practice with your perspective on intellectual property. Reselling an old copy of whatever it is 'cause you're not using it any more? I'm fine with that. But, if you had read my posts, I'm pretty sure that's not what's happening in this case. Regardless, it's nice to see another fine citizen resort to name-calling/bulling/rudeness worthy of a middle school playground. "Peace" indeed, -BluMunk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SVG Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 Without getting all 'in your face' with anyone here, I support everyone's right to do whatever they think is right. Both the OP for flagging a CL post (which I do from time to time just to keep the riff raff out) AND the post by Marsalone who has a rather different take on intellectual property and ownership. My own sense of what it right and wrong doesn't come in with a judgement towards others. I just live my life as best I can and leave others to do the same. You wanna get a copy of Nuendo for free? More power to ya. You wanna get upset when someone gets a copy for free? More power to ya. I do agree that getting so caught up with the whole thing that we resort to name calling here on this list is at best unfortunate. Stephen . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offnote Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 My own sense of what it right and wrong doesn't come in with a judgement towards others. I just live my life as best I can and leave others to do the same. You wanna get a copy of Nuendo for free? More power to ya. You wanna get upset when someone gets a copy for free? More power to ya. well, it's not all that simple, what if someone wants to get a free copy of you...still more power to him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SVG Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 If someone tries to steal a physical object from me, I will probably do my best to thwart that. If someone wants to burn a copy of my CD, it does represent a potential loss of income, though I probably wouldn't do anything to stop them. Instead I'd look at how easy it is to copy CD's and either be fine with that or just rethink my priorities and find a different way to make money. Life is too short for us all to be trying to police each other. Though when I say that, I realize that I'm just talking about myself. It does seem that life if not too short for others to be in the policing position. More power to them... Stephen . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synthoid Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 b) it is also a bad deal for the purchaser. As soon as the hard drive goes, or you have to reformat, or something goes wrong, you lose the software, because you don't actually own the license to it. Selling a 'loaded' machine without the actual disks/keys/licenses is like selling a time bomb to the consumer. At some point in the not so distant future, the software you are buying will become unusable. A couple years ago, someone locally bought a used MacBook that was loaded with thousands of dollars worth of Adobe software. He was touting the low price he paid and how it was such a bargain, especially with all the software it came with. When I asked if he received the disks with the computer, he said, "No, the previous owner kept them to load on his new MacBook." He was convinced the "transfer of software" was legitimate and nobody could convince him otherwise. Sooner or later that laptop will crash and he'll be out of luck... but for now, he seems oblivious to piracy. I guess some folks can justify anything. :idk When an eel hits your eye like a big pizza pie, that's a Moray. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offnote Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 Life is too short for us all to be trying to police each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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