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Thoughts on changing from Motion-Sound to Ventilator/K12?


Dave Pierce

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Hi KCers,

 

I really value the gear opinions of many of you forumites, so I would love to hear what you think of this.

 

I've been playing both organ and non-organ sounds through my Motion-Sound KBR-M for something like 8 years now. It's a great compromise -- everything I need in a single item that weighs 70 lbs and doesn't take up too much stage real estate. It also has enough inputs that I don't need a mixer onstage.

 

But, it's a compromise. The "clean" channel is decent, but certainly not great. The rotor channel is nice, and it spins a horn which is fabulous. But the more I try to faithfully emulate Santana keyboardists -- particularly the Gregg Rolie stuff -- the more aware I am that it is NOT, in fact, a real Leslie.

 

I've been thinking about it a lot more since I got my XK-3c. Prior to that purchase I was very happy with my Nord Electro, and was of the opinion that the Electro was a pretty good Hammond emulation. But the XK-3c is so much better! I'm really wondering if I'll experience something similar if I replace the Motion-Sound.

 

I've given lots of thought to gigging with a real Leslie. It's just not going to happen right now. First of all, it would mean carrying two amplification systems. One of them VERY heavy. My back isn't very strong, and last time I checked I get older every day, not younger. Secondly, on many of our stages the extra real estate just isn't available. I really don't want to start having different rigs for different gigs. It's much better for me when I use a rig frequently enough to forget about it.

 

That leaves the Ventilator through a K12. I know many of you, including people who I respect a lot like Jim, are doing this now.

 

So what do you think? Will I hear much better Hammond/Leslie results if I do this? And will I also be a lot happier with the clean-channel sounds through the K12?

 

Thanks in advance for your thoughts!

 

--Dave

 

Make my funk the P-funk.

I wants to get funked up.

 

My Funk/Jam originals project: http://www.thefunkery.com/

 

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As you know, with Janiva Magness, I use a Leslie 2101 & 2121 system with the Ventilator running in tandem. I give the sound guy a direct out from the Ventilator and that's all that's going through the PA.

 

I like having the real 2101 moving air. But in your situation, I'd just go with the Vent and a good powered speaker. The K12 is certainly a good choice.

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As you know, with Janiva Magness, I use a Leslie 2101 & 2121 system with the Ventilator running in tandem. I give the sound guy a direct out from the Ventilator and that's all that's going through the PA.

 

I like having the real 2101 moving air. But in your situation, I'd just go with the Vent and a good powered speaker. The K12 is certainly a good choice.

 

I'm not sure I did know that. :D Were you already doing that the first time you guys came to San Francisco? Or did you start doing that a bit later?

 

Somehow I was thinking that I was hearing the 2101 when you were here. (It was the first time you guys came to SF, not the later shows.)

 

If that was the Ventilator I was hearing through the PA at Biscuit and Blues, then damn. What are we even talking about this for? Because your gear sounded f'ing GREAT!

 

Of course, the player may have had some small amount of contribution to that as well... ;)

 

--Dave

 

(Oh, and thanks for the quick response!)

Make my funk the P-funk.

I wants to get funked up.

 

My Funk/Jam originals project: http://www.thefunkery.com/

 

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Oh, one other thing: If I do switch to the Vent, it will be MONO, not stereo. Curious if that changes your opinion of it. I know many sims sound like crap in mono. I think several have said that the Ventilator sounds good in mono.

 

Stereo may or may not be better, but it's absolutely not an option in my current situation. Nearly all of the venue PAs run mono. In fact, I can't think of even one right now that runs stereo.

 

--Dave

Make my funk the P-funk.

I wants to get funked up.

 

My Funk/Jam originals project: http://www.thefunkery.com/

 

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Dave, do you remember the general date of that first San Fran gig? I can't recall. I started using the Ventilator in tandem around summertime, I believe.

 

May is what popped into my head. I have no idea if that's accurate or random. ;) I'll search for the thread about it here...

 

--Dave

Make my funk the P-funk.

I wants to get funked up.

 

My Funk/Jam originals project: http://www.thefunkery.com/

 

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OK, May was random. :) It was June 13.

 

https://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2201026/1

 

There are pictures, and in one of them it looks like the Leslie was pretty mic'ed up. So I'm guessing you were not yet using the Vent.

 

Thanks again for the quick responses! I think I'm going to do this. I'm a couple hundred bucks short of everything I need at the moment, but I have a three gigs in the next two weeks, so I should be able to scrape it together. :thu:

 

--Dave

Make my funk the P-funk.

I wants to get funked up.

 

My Funk/Jam originals project: http://www.thefunkery.com/

 

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Jim is using the Vent with the XK3, he does not have the c. He also uses it with backline whatever organ is supplied.

 

Doesn't the XK3c have what's considered to be one of the better Leslie sims? IIRC, many felt that the Vent was only slightly better, not $500 better.

 

If that's the case, why not just use the sim on your XK3c, maybe see if you like that better than the MS and then go from there?

"I'm so crazy, I don't know this is impossible! Hoo hoo!" - Daffy Duck

 

"The good news is that once you start piano you never have to worry about getting laid again. More time to practice!" - MOI

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I had used MS stuff since the pro3 and low pro. I bought a ventilator and have sold all my MS gear. I used the vent at a gig last week and it kicked through the PA. If you do not use the sim in the xk3c, use the vent. I am not going back.
"Forget it, Jake. It's Chinatown."
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The vent also colors the sound of your clone. I had to retune my whole sound on my xk3c when i used a vent. Experiment with your leslie sim on your xk3c. You may be surprised. But nothing beats the vent's overdrive.
'55 and '59 B3's, Leslies 147, 122, 21H, Motif XS7, Mellotrons M300 and M400, Wurlitzer 200, Gibson G101, Vox Continental, Mojo
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I think a Vent and a K-12 will kill the Motion Sound on every level. Tone especially, but also volume, and ease of use through a PA. If you are providing the room sound directly with your stage gear, I still think the Motion Sound loses.

I personally prefer the JBL PRX612m to the QSC K-12 at that price point after A/B'ing them extensively. But they are both fine choices and others might prefer the QSC.

Moog The One, VV 64 EP, Wurlies 200A 140 7300, Forte 7, Mojo 61, OB-6, Prophet 6, Polaris, Hammond A100, Farfisa VIP, ,Young Chang 6', Voyager, E7 Clav, Midiboard, Linnstrument, Seaboard
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I run my Ventilator in glorious Mono. It sounds killer. I used it on my XK1, and now its on my SK1. No way I would leave it at home. I love the sound of a real leslie, but more and more, this just is so much easier to control (a bad mic technique can totally sabotage your organ tone), its obviously easier to carry, and I just cant imagine gigging without it now.
Hitting "Play" does NOT constitute live performance. -Me.
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The vent also colors the sound of your clone. I had to retune my whole sound on my xk3c when i used a vent. But nothing beats the vent's overdrive.

 

+1.

 

I definitely had to re-tune some settings on my XM-2 when I plugged in the Vent. But once I was set I haven't looked back.

 

I recently did a big outdoor festival gig with the XM-2 through the Vent and I had a pair of K12's as monitors and my rig never sounded as good. The K12's pack plenty of power yet are really smooth on the transients and high-end so you don't feel like your being blasted all night.

 

I wouldn't worry. To me it sounds like you'd be getting a major upgrade in B3 tone with XK3c=>Vent=>K12. YMMV.

Ian Benhamou

Keyboards/Guitar/Vocals

 

[url:https://www.facebook.com/OfficialTheMusicalBox/]The Musical Box[/url]

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I do, though I could probably use one for my Electro 2. Instead, I've been using the headphone out and it's been better.

 

K10

"I'm so crazy, I don't know this is impossible! Hoo hoo!" - Daffy Duck

 

"The good news is that once you start piano you never have to worry about getting laid again. More time to practice!" - MOI

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OK, May was random. :) It was June 13.

 

https://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2201026/1

 

There are pictures, and in one of them it looks like the Leslie was pretty mic'ed up. So I'm guessing you were not yet using the Vent.

 

I think you're right. I hadn't made up the custom 11pin cable to connect both the Vent and the 2101 together.

 

Joe's right, with some tweaking you should be able to get the sim in the XK3c to sound really good. However, in my opinion, even with the real tube circuitry in the XK3c, the Vent's overdrive sounds better, and by that I mean more authentic: More like a 122 being overdriven.

 

For what you're doing (Santana) that might be the ticket.

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OK, May was random. :) It was June 13.

 

https://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2201026/1

 

There are pictures, and in one of them it looks like the Leslie was pretty mic'ed up. So I'm guessing you were not yet using the Vent.

 

For what you're doing (Santana) that might be the ticket.

 

Except that Greg Rollie used C3 vibrato through a Leslie on fast as his signature sound... .and the Vent has a problem processing this (as I demonstrated in my videos). At least with the XK3c...

 

 

'55 and '59 B3's, Leslies 147, 122, 21H, Motif XS7, Mellotrons M300 and M400, Wurlitzer 200, Gibson G101, Vox Continental, Mojo
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OK, May was random. :) It was June 13.

 

https://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2201026/1

 

There are pictures, and in one of them it looks like the Leslie was pretty mic'ed up. So I'm guessing you were not yet using the Vent.

 

For what you're doing (Santana) that might be the ticket.

 

Except that Greg Rollie used C3 vibrato through a Leslie on fast as his signature sound... .and the Vent has a problem processing this (as I demonstrated in my videos). At least with the XK3c...

 

 

Hmmm. I'd love to hear more about this. Is there a thread that I missed somewhere?

 

--Dave

Make my funk the P-funk.

I wants to get funked up.

 

My Funk/Jam originals project: http://www.thefunkery.com/

 

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OK, May was random. :) It was June 13.

 

https://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2201026/1

 

There are pictures, and in one of them it looks like the Leslie was pretty mic'ed up. So I'm guessing you were not yet using the Vent.

 

For what you're doing (Santana) that might be the ticket.

 

Except that Greg Rollie used C3 vibrato through a Leslie on fast as his signature sound... .and the Vent has a problem processing this (as I demonstrated in my videos). At least with the XK3c...

 

 

Hmmm. I'd love to hear more about this. Is there a thread that I missed somewhere?

 

--Dave

 

Actually the Vent sounded very good... except when you used full organ and vibrato. I initially thought it was a problem with the tuning of the XK3c... but many on this list thought that it was the Ventilator's processor not being able to keep up with the complex sound of the Hammond with vibrato..

 

'55 and '59 B3's, Leslies 147, 122, 21H, Motif XS7, Mellotrons M300 and M400, Wurlitzer 200, Gibson G101, Vox Continental, Mojo
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I have been using the Vent with an NE3 in mono and a K12 and am quite happy with it (headphones or studio set-up will give the stereo effect so I recommend getting the stereo mod).

 

I like to have the Vent nearby as I find it useful to control mic distance and overdrive. I've owned B-3's and leslies in the past and know the experience of having a real leslie and would not hesitate to recommend one on stage (like Jim uses), but it's too much gear for me at this time so the Vent w/ K12 is it.

 

As far as coloring the clone's sound....no big deal, make minor adjustments. :thu:

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