Amy Winehouse - Found Dead

[CrimsonianKing]

I wonder if the people who bashed her in here would have to say if she was someone in their family or if they've been addicted themselves, or dealt with addicted people some time in their lives. Ok, she was never a role model, she could've been so much better as a person if she wanted, she had everything while others are dying of starvation in Africa every minute, those have no choice. So, come on, even though she did it to herself, let her rest in peace and hopefully this thread.

[richwhite9]

So, come on, even though she did it to herself, let her rest in peace and hopefully this thread.

 

There's the whole mental illness angle too that many addicts/alcoholics suffer from. It goes with the creative territory at times. She was hospitalized for that too.....

 

What's the story? Half the homeless abuse drugs and alcohol to quiet their demons and are diagnosed as mentally ill?

 

That's not to impugn her rep just to say we don't know what was going on.

[JohnH]

Well, Jim Morrison's work seriously declined in his later career, by common consent.

The same could be said of Lester Young, the great jazz saxophonist, and many others.

 

While Jim's output dipped in late 68 and 69 and led to the Soft Parade album which was mostly penned by Robby Krieger, he then got his act together to put out some of his strongest work in Morrison Hotel and LA Woman. He only dipped for a short period and then put out some of his best stuff.

After learning all these songs, I look at the track listing of Hotel and it's amazing all those great songs on it. Jim went out on top with songs like LA Woman and Riders on the Storm.

[george costanza]

If nothing else, this thread has revealed the need to "consider the source" when evaluating comments.

[Mogut]

If nothing else, this thread has revealed the need to "consider the source" when evaluating comments.

Just a general rule, that should be true for any thread in this forum.

[george costanza]

Yes, but in this case

it has drawn lines of tolerance, empathy and openmindedness

and the evaluation of talent that gets mistaken for mere showbiz

in such a way that it has completely changed my view of many members.

 

Empathy is a supreme quality for a musician.

If you lack it, you will never be able to communicate to an audience, perhap never even understand why to try.

 

If you can't tell the difference between an artist trying to appeal to a modern pop music audience and a mere pop culture manipulator

your powers of observation are questionable.

 

No one here has gone as far as calling Winehouse talentless but some have indicated that attitude.

When Tony Bennett (that's TONY BENNETT) says that Winehouse was "an artist of immense talent",

that's something far beyond the Gagas, Madonnas, etc., that she's generally lumped in with.

 

This forum has long seemed the most erudite and thoughtful of the Music Player instrument bulletin boards.

It has lost that distinction.

[Theo Verelst]

I tseems to me she had enough of it to mind melt with pushers and people considering her OK for not being hard boiled protestant rocker enough, to be honest. Which is terribly sad, of course.

[Cygnus64]

If you can't tell the difference between an artist trying to appeal to a modern pop music audience and a mere pop culture manipulator, your powers of observation are questionable.

No offense, but that's just ridiculous. It's also against everything that music is. What you're essentially saying is "If you don't get it, you're stupid". That's childlike.

 

The beauty of music is choice. One doesn't need validation by Tony Bennett (who is doing a duet with Gaga BTW) to know what they appreciate. Think of the opposite: if Tony Bennett says (insert artist here) sucks, do we suddenly think that the artist sucks?

 

The great Leonard Bernstein adored the Beatles. He also hated Pink Floyd. Wagner hated the music of Brahms. Brahms hated the music of Hugo Wolf. I can't tell you how many classical musicians I know who can't stand Tchaikovsky (whom I adore). Does this mean anything? Of course not. It doesn't appeal to them, so be it. Life is not a musical litmus test.

 

Whether or not it's a sensible idea to criticize Ms. Winehouse's artistry shortly after her death is one issue. Criticizing those who do not share your views of her is another. To me it's worse, sorry. If you like Pink Floyd, then by your logic Leonard Bernstein had "questionable powers of observation". That's wrong.

[Tonysounds]

The great Leonard Bernstein adored the Beatles. He also hated Pink Floyd. ..... If you like Pink Floyd, then by your logic Leonard Bernstein had "questionable powers of observation". That's wrong.

 

Well, he also hated Keith Emerson; while that may have been personal, the fact that he hated Pink Floyd does make me think his powers of observation were questionable!

 

:idk

[Cygnus64]

The great Leonard Bernstein adored the Beatles. He also hated Pink Floyd. ..... If you like Pink Floyd, then by your logic Leonard Bernstein had "questionable powers of observation". That's wrong.

 

Well, he also hated Keith Emerson; while that may have been personal, the fact that he hated Pink Floyd does make me think his powers of observation were questionable!

 

:idk

 

Me too. That's why validation from Tony Bennett means exactly squat. We all have our likes and dislikes.

[Sven Golly]

This forum has long seemed the most erudite and thoughtful of the Music Player instrument bulletin boards.

It has lost that distinction.

 

All in one thread... that's a pretty big brush you're wielding there, gc.

[Ken Beaumont]

Only time will truly measure whether she was a talent who's musical legacy will viewed as positive and enduring. Right now its difficult to separate the constant media exposure of her downfall from the art she created. If succeeding generations continue to purchase, pirate or are inspired by her recordings, then we will know. Right now, may she rest in peace.

[richwhite9]

If her posthumous album is as good as some say, it will help her reputation. Buddy Holly's resume is slight as is Eddie Cochran's.

 

When you hear her early stuff strumming the guitar you get it or you don't. She'd make it in Chicago, Memphis, or New Orleans. 99% of the Brit Blue-eyed soul singers wouldn't. Most markets in the US she'd dominate the scene when she came in to strum an electric guitar and sing.

 

Janis Joplin--well thank god the posthumous 'Pearl' was all that. Otherwise her Greatest Hits album would be very slim. Not to mention Janis wasn't much of a writer adding lyrics to about one song per album. For every over-produced Amy song there's a lame butt Big Brother arrangement on the longer blues tracks.

[HammondDave]

OK.. I know I claimed my "last word" several pages above, but I must add this:

 

I work with opera singers all the time. Last night I went out with the principal singers from a production of Peter Grimes I am presently designing in Las Palmas. These are world-class singers who perform at The Royal Opera House, The Met, etc...

 

The discussion turned to Amy... They all said that she had a great voice. Now these people should know.. and believe me, they would not hesitate to criticize...

 

So Amy's music may not have been everyone's "cup of tea"... Like mentioned above, we all have different tastes. But there is no denying her talent.

 

Such a shame she did not get help...

[richwhite9]

And the hits keep on Coming.

 

Dan Peek of America passes away at 60.

 

His best known contribution to 70s pop culture...

 

[video:youtube]

[Outkaster]

Wow I did not hear that.

[CrimsonianKing]

[Cygnus64]

OK.. I know I claimed my "last word" several pages above, but I must add this:

 

I work with opera singers all the time. Last night I went out with the principal singers from a production of Peter Grimes I am presently designing in Las Palmas. These are world-class singers who perform at The Royal Opera House, The Met, etc...

 

The discussion turned to Amy... They all said that she had a great voice. Now these people should know.. and believe me, they would not hesitate to criticize...

 

So Amy's music may not have been everyone's "cup of tea"... Like mentioned above, we all have different tastes. But there is no denying her talent.

 

 

I'm not debating her talent. I'm saying that one can't bash people for seeing it or not seeing it, or suggest that their opinions are without merit or that their musical taste is lacking. That's nonsense.

 

P.S. Peter Grimes kicks ass, that's an interesting gig you have there.

[richwhite9]

I'm saying that one can't bash people for seeing it or not seeing it, or suggest that their opinions are without merit or that their musical taste is lacking. That's nonsense.

 

Why stop now.....

 

Because some people are tasteless and 99% of the people who call themselves artists shouldn't.

[CrimsonianKing]

I'm saying that one can't bash people for seeing it or not seeing it, or suggest that their opinions are without merit or that their musical taste is lacking. That's nonsense.

 

Why stop now.....

 

Because some people are tasteless and 99% of the people who call themselves artists shouldn't.

 

You and your Percentages

[Musicale]

Well,

 

I don't know anything at all about Amy, only what I heard in the press which was not flattering, at all. I did see a clip of her performing with a largely black band, and I thought she was great. I think the song may have been Just Friends. I'll check out this weekend, I think there is a big special Sunday Night on Cable.

 

She definitely had some issues and definitely received no real help with the issues as evidenced by her demise. It's too bad, I think she had some incredible potential, but really needed someone that could understand and work with her, not for the notoriety, publicity or money, just a genuine friend. I wonder what the last night was like, all alone, probably very drugged and isolated. Really too bad that anyone would go out this way....

 

I'll really listen to the back to black, from what I heard thus far she was a real soulful upcoming female vocalist that should have persisted. The band was excellent with tasty parts sprinkled in all over the place.

 

RIP...

 

Musicale

[LX88]

I saw the interview that was posted here that Amy did when she was 20 years old. Big changes happened to her in a 7 year period.

 

The went from being a vivacious and somewhat innocent young woman to being the baddest of the bad during that time span . The time between this interview and the " Back to Black" recording was approximately 2 years.

 

She was a major figure in her generation. Very few have attained the level of acceptance- both critically and in sheer record sales- that she did, which has been very difficult for any artist to attain during the age of internet. Who else has matched her sales in this decade?

 

Money can't buy happiness apparently.

[gryphon]

P.S. For comparison, gryphon, can you please post a sample of lyrics that you have written? Thanks.

I'm not going to win with this post, but after debating with myself for several days I am going to write it anyway.

 

Yes, I can post some stuff. However, I have been warned by an attorney not to.

 

A book was going to be published with content from two people, me and another person. The other person backed out after the book was almost completed. It is now in limbo and I am rejoined from publishing all or any part of it.

 

However, even had I not had any art to compare with Winehouse's, I do not think that precludes me from commenting. Do you?

 

I made no attempt to disparage Ms. Winehouse personally. I made no comment on her habits. In fact, I made no comment whatsoever until someone posted some of her lyrics. Some people here have agreed with me. Others have not. Fine.

 

Dave Pierce made a good comment to someone else who was also commenting on her lyrics. "Think of a current artist who you really like quite a lot. Now imagine that they died young on Saturday. In the thread about their death, do you really want to read a bunch of posts about how they actually sucked?"

 

I think this is a valid point and made me think. For whatever reason, I guess I didn't realize that my minor comments about Winehouse's lyrics would upset someone here. And for my part in this I apologize to her fans.

 

We have talked about Glee. People here have savaged Glee, yet there are fans. Same with Gaga. I didn't think I was overly disrespectful to Winehouse, but what I failed to realize was that a few of her fans may think that I was disrespectful to them. That was a failing on my part, and again, for that I apologize. I didn't see it because I am not that sensitive. I just viewed this as a normal exchange of ideas.

 

[Geoff Grace]

I've had plenty of experience with Internet forums for over a decade now, and apologies are few and far between--especially apologies that were prompted by taking a fellow forum member's words to heart.

 

For all of the talk around here lately about classiness or the lack thereof, this is still the most considerate public forum I know of.

 

Well done, gryphon and Dave Pierce.

 

Best,

 

Geoff

[Dave Pierce]

gryphon, I am also touched by your post. Thank you for reading what I wrote with an open heart, and for your gracious apology. Which is happily accepted.

 

Now, before this all gets TOO darn mushy, can we all get together and go bash some guitarists or something...

 

--Dave

 

[Jeff Klopmeyer]

Now, before this all gets TOO darn mushy, can we all get together and go bash some guitarists or something...

 

 

 

[Dave Pierce]

Now, before this all gets TOO darn mushy, can we all get together and go bash some guitarists or something...

 

 

 

 

Ahem. Ummm. I meant "bash some guitarists whose name is not Jeff". Yeah, that's it.

 

--Dave

[george costanza]

If you can't tell the difference between an artist trying to appeal to a modern pop music audience and a mere pop culture manipulator, your powers of observation are questionable.

No offense, but that's just ridiculous. It's also against everything that music is. What you're essentially saying is "If you don't get it, you're stupid". That's childlike.

Well, at least you didn't call it childish.

 

I think you misunderstood what I meant but I'm not sure I could put it more concisely.

I certainly don't mean subscribe to the "If you don't get it, you're stupid" idea, nor to that endorsements automatically confer artistic quality.

Specifically, there seem to be many who consider Winehouse a mere pop music oddball with a quirky style both musically and visually.

I think that's a mistake and I intended the reference to Bennett, who seems as straightlaced as Winehouse wasn't, as demonstrative of the fact that more than a few considered her a legitimate jazz singer.

 

I'm not her champion.

In fact I was only aware of her work in a general way until she died but in listening to some of it I have become convinced she was of greater depth than many performers she may've resembled superficially.

 

 

[george costanza]

This forum has long seemed the most erudite and thoughtful of the Music Player instrument bulletin boards.

It has lost that distinction.

 

All in one thread... that's a pretty big brush you're wielding there, gc.

Not all in one thread...but in my most recent visits it seems to have lost some measure of the qualities I mentioned.

 

 

 

[Cygnus64]

If you can't tell the difference between an artist trying to appeal to a modern pop music audience and a mere pop culture manipulator, your powers of observation are questionable.

No offense, but that's just ridiculous. It's also against everything that music is. What you're essentially saying is "If you don't get it, you're stupid". That's childlike.

Well, at least you didn't call it childish.

 

I think you misunderstood what I meant but I'm not sure I could put it more concisely.

I certainly don't mean subscribe to the "If you don't get it, you're stupid" idea, nor to that endorsements automatically confer artistic quality.

Specifically, there seem to be many who consider Winehouse a mere pop music oddball with a quirky style both musically and visually.

I think that's a mistake and I intended the reference to Bennett, who seems as straightlaced as Winehouse wasn't, as demonstrative of the fact that more than a few considered her a legitimate jazz singer.

 

I'm not her champion.

In fact I was only aware of her work in a general way until she died but in listening to some of it I have become convinced she was of greater depth than many performers she may've resembled superficially.

 

 

I was just grumpy when I wrote that, my bad.

 

I think this thread is coming to one giant group hug.