Moonglow Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 .....over our gear? Weve all seen the threads where someone criticizes a piece of gear that someone else uses/favors, and then these discussions often result in a rather heated exchange, sometimes involving personal attacks. Ill let you know how I feel about piece of equipment, but if you dont happen to like what I have to say or dont like the axe I use, Im okay with that! Do what makes you happy! But why do some folks get in a tizz over something someone says (who they may peripherally know, at best), and then lash out? Why cant they just say, Im truly glad you enjoy your piece of gear, and I sincerely hope you continue to make some good music with it and find happiness. While I enjoy reading about others rigs and opinions, in the end it really doesnt matter. Im going to enjoy playing my Nord organ and my triple-strike piano. Then Im going to sit down and have a bowl of corn flakes and enjoy that, too. But some folks cant seem to let it go. Its like their gear becomes a fragile extension of their personhood. Or is it part of the artistic thing, where criticizing a coveted piece of equipment is similar to criticizing ones playing or composition? I have a lot of training/experience in the behavioral sciences, and I just dont get it. Can someone please help me out with this? "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing." - George Bernard Shaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CEB Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 I have no idea. Carpenter's do not get their panties in a bunch over their hammers and saws. They be just tools. "It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne "A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!! So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morizzle Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 It's a habit from childhood. Children compare their toys. Grown men compare their gear. (and penises) It's not a clone, it's a Suzuki. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dana. Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 Lunchtime! P.S. My sandwich is better than yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ITGITC Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 A timely question (pun intended). LINK TO TIME.COM Excerpt from the article: This is where a primary concept in behavioral economics the endowment effect comes into play. The endowment effect says were likely to value something more highly simply because its ours. This is true of many things including babies, which is probably why we evolved the bias but its especially true with unique experiences. I may think my computer is better than yours because its mine, but Ill almost certainly believe my sojourn in Italy was more ideally suited for me than yours, whatever its cost. Read more: http://moneyland.time.com/2011/07/21/want-happiness-dont-buy-more-stuff-%e2%80%94-go-on-vacation/#ixzz1SrIXgUau "Music expresses that which cannot be put into words and that which cannot remain silent." - Victor Hugo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProfD Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 I don't understand the emotional connection to gear either. Especially when it leads ot lines being drawn in the sand. As the Digital Undergound put it, "dowhatchulike". In fact, I think it is great to see/hear musicians getting maximum mileage from gear that has fallen out of favor and/or is less than popular. PD "The greatest thing you'll ever learn, is just to love and be loved in return."--E. Ahbez "Nature Boy" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fusker Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 People tend to think they are smart. They also like to think that when they made a major purchase, they made the best choice. When it turns out they may not have, people tend to feel their judgement and intelligence is being called into question. Take my K4 purchase just over 2 years ago. I leaned on a bass player I know for insight...he told me that he'd never go the PA root because it is more complicated (mixer, speaker stands, more wires...he may have a point still given the reality of where I live). I come here, find out I probably should have gone with the QSC....suddenly I'm a moron for buying a combo that wasn't any cheaper. Is a pair of K10's better? It seems to be the case. Has it made any difference that I was "stuck" with my K4 the last 2 years? No. Did I get emotional about my K4? No....I didn't give birth to it, it's just gear. But yeah, there's my Friday rambling. Steinway L, Yamaha Motif XS-8, NE3 73, Casio PX-5S, iPad, EV ZLX 12-P ZZ(x2), bunch of PA stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bourniplus Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 I'm sure it has to do with evolution, but now my post is already too politics/religion oriented... "Show me all the blueprints. I'm serious now, show me all the blueprints." My homemade instruments Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe P Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 Then Im going to sit down and have a bowl of corn flakes and enjoy that, too. The only bowl I would put corn flakes in is the toilet bowl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meisenhower Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 Everyone that eats Corn Flakes puts them in the toilet bowl at some point (unless it was someone's "last meal). Yamaha C7 Grand, My Hammonds: '57 B3, '54 C2, '42 BC, '40 D, '05 XK3 Pro System, Kawai MP9000, Fender Rhodes Mk I 73, Yamaha CP33, Motif ES6, Nord Electro 2, Minimoog Voyager & Model D, Korg MS10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Song80s Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 .....over our gear? Weve all seen the threads where someone criticizes a piece of gear that someone else uses/favors, and then these discussions often result in a rather heated exchange, sometimes involving personal attacks. Ill let you know how I feel about piece of equipment, but if you dont happen to like what I have to say or dont like the axe I use, Im okay with that! Do what makes you happy! But why do some folks get in a tizz over something someone says (who they may peripherally know, at best), and then lash out? Why cant they just say, Im truly glad you enjoy your piece of gear, and I sincerely hope you continue to make some good music with it and find happiness. While I enjoy reading about others rigs and opinions, in the end it really doesnt matter. Im going to enjoy playing my Nord organ and my triple-strike piano. Then Im going to sit down and have a bowl of corn flakes and enjoy that, too. But some folks cant seem to let it go. Its like their gear becomes a fragile extension of their personhood. Or is it part of the artistic thing, where criticizing a coveted piece of equipment is similar to criticizing ones playing or composition? I have a lot of training/experience in the behavioral sciences, and I just dont get it. Can someone please help me out with this? its much easier to tear something down than to build something. I have a high regard for those that make an effort to build something. They are taking the chance while others are possibly sitting back. Why fit in, when you were born to stand out ? My Soundcloud with many originals: [70's Songwriter] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Klopmeyer Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 I don't get emotional over gear in the slightest. I'll play anything that sounds good for the thing I'm playing at that moment. Don't care about its features, its specifications, what it costs, none of that crap. Then again, keys aren't my main instrument. Hmm. Marketing Communications for MI/Pro Audio My solo music and stuff They Stole My Crayon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Muscara Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 Here's a thought from the other side of the equation. Some posts come across with an attitude that "Brand X/Product X sucks." That tone tends to make someone who likes X defensive. OTOH, when someone says, "X doesn't work for me" or "I don't like X, it's not my thing," most of us will at most reply with, "really? Why? I love mine." Me? I'm all for whatever works for you. I'll show you what works for me if you're interested, and yes, it reinforces my choices if you do the same. But in the end, if you're making good music, if you're happy, that's all that matters to me. "I'm so crazy, I don't know this is impossible! Hoo hoo!" - Daffy Duck "The good news is that once you start piano you never have to worry about getting laid again. More time to practice!" - MOI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffLearman Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 Moonglow, you ignorant slut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnchop Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 Don't care about its features, its specifications, what it costs, none of that crap. Then again, keys aren't my main instrument. Hmm. Wow, I don't hear that much from the guitar players I know. My suggestion to use anything other than their sacred combination of tubes and wires gets me a lecture on "tone"... like it makes them forget how to play or something. Criminy. Anyway, bless you, sir. And +1 to all this. I make software noises. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonglow Posted July 22, 2011 Author Share Posted July 22, 2011 Excerpt from the article: This is where a primary concept in behavioral economics the endowment effect comes into play. The endowment effect says were likely to value something more highly simply because its ours. This is true of many things including babies, which is probably why we evolved the bias but its especially true with unique experiences. I may think my computer is better than yours because its mine, but Ill almost certainly believe my sojourn in Italy was more ideally suited for me than yours, whatever its cost. Interesting article/concept, suggesting an evolutionary basis. I'd like to know more about the theoretical link regarding how one gets from their baby to their PC3, however! "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing." - George Bernard Shaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonglow Posted July 22, 2011 Author Share Posted July 22, 2011 People tend to think they are smart. They also like to think that when they made a major purchase, they made the best choice. When it turns out they may not have, people tend to feel their judgement and intelligence is being called into question. I think this may be a piece of it. We often put considerable thought into the pre-purchase phase. Maybe the implicit defensive response stems from something like, I got XYZ keyboard, instead of XYZ keyboard, because of XYZ, so that makes me smarter that you. So then begins the debate, for self-enhancement purposes. It may also be that as the importance of the decision increases, so does the magnitude of the defensive response. Its no secret that buying a keyboard is an important decision for us, perhaps because it is intrinsically connected to our music.....and therein may lie the source of the emotional connection. I wonder if they have similar debates over at the living room furniture forum..... "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing." - George Bernard Shaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonglow Posted July 22, 2011 Author Share Posted July 22, 2011 Moonglow, you ignorant slut. +1 LOL.... "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing." - George Bernard Shaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keyClicker Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 This happens a lot... We can clearly see that when people argue about religion or soccer, for example. There is something about "no, you are saying something I was thaught since I was 10 years old could not be the 100% true ???" And, I agree with Fusker... There is this hidden force that tells people they "spent $$$ on that gear, so kill everyone that mentions they don't like what you bought". OR!!! Looking from very logical and practical point of view... People want their keyboards to be respected, so they could sell it for more $$$ when they do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fusker Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 People tend to think they are smart. I wonder if they have similar debates over at the living room furniture forum..... This absolutely translates into keeping up with the Joneses. Cars, vacations, schools....you name it, any big ticket item. "You drove your Focus to vacation in MEXICO!!? You rube!!" Steinway L, Yamaha Motif XS-8, NE3 73, Casio PX-5S, iPad, EV ZLX 12-P ZZ(x2), bunch of PA stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Klopmeyer Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 Don't care about its features, its specifications, what it costs, none of that crap. Then again, keys aren't my main instrument. Hmm. Wow, I don't hear that much from the guitar players I know. My suggestion to use anything other than their sacred combination of tubes and wires gets me a lecture on "tone"... like it makes them forget how to play or something. Criminy. Anyway, bless you, sir. And +1 to all this. Thank you, sir. And lest I give the wrong impression, I am indeed discerning about gear. I just don't live or die by it, and am happy to play stuff that isn't a snooty brand as long as it feels and sounds good for that song at that moment. I bought a $99 Squire P-Bass awhile back just to have something around the house for demos. Guess what? Sounds great, feels great, and I'd use it on a recording with no reservations. Marketing Communications for MI/Pro Audio My solo music and stuff They Stole My Crayon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonglow Posted July 22, 2011 Author Share Posted July 22, 2011 People tend to think they are smart. I wonder if they have similar debates over at the living room furniture forum..... This absolutely translates into keeping up with the Joneses. Cars, vacations, schools....you name it, any big ticket item. "You drove your Focus to vacation in MEXICO!!? You rube!!" Err, Mr. Fusker, I think the first line ("People tend to think they are smart.") was you, not me! "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing." - George Bernard Shaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fusker Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 How dare you! Steinway L, Yamaha Motif XS-8, NE3 73, Casio PX-5S, iPad, EV ZLX 12-P ZZ(x2), bunch of PA stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonglow Posted July 22, 2011 Author Share Posted July 22, 2011 Some posts come across with an attitude that "Brand X/Product X sucks." That tone tends to make someone who likes X defensive. OTOH, when someone says, "X doesn't work for me" or "I don't like X, it's not my thing," most of us will at most reply with, "really? Why? I love mine." Excellent point, Joe. We all vary in our ability to use language, as it impacts social behavior (part of social intelligence). We hope that people will use respectful language, but some are simply less skilled or just dont give a damn....and we're not going to change them. So it becomes important to manage our reactions to other's use of....shall we say....less socially-skilled language. Ive been yelled at, cursed at, spit at, verbally and physically threatened....so Im a little desensitized. But as I mentioned in Prof Ds classy thread, its important to recognize the internal, antecedent cues predictive of when we are starting to become engaged with someone. Often referred to as self-monitoring, this is often the first step leading to the development of the ability to calm/self-sooth, and corrective self-guidance. "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing." - George Bernard Shaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theGman Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 Endowment effect + insecurity; just like with automobiles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Link Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 Most folks don't want to feel like they made a bad choice. Before I found on-line forums, I bought a digital piano based on the recommendation of an old friend who hadn't looked at new gear in years. Turned out to be a less than satisfactory choice. The natural impulse is to defend one's personal choice, but pretty quickly I sold it, found a nice used Yamaha S90 and later a NE2 at the MF outlet in Kansas City. Live and learn. aka âmisterdregsâ Nord Electro 5D 73 Yamaha P105 Kurzweil PC3LE7 Motion Sound KP200S Schimmel 6-10LE QSC CP-12 Westone AM Pro 30 IEMs Rolls PM55P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichieP_MechE Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 I have a lot of training/experience in the behavioral sciences, and I just dont get it. Can someone please help me out with this? Perhaps it's because we're just wired this way as humans? The Science of Fanboyism Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Muscara Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 Often referred to as self-monitoring, this is often the first step leading to the development of the ability to calm/self-sooth, and corrective self-guidance. This sums up how I try to "stay classy." I used to be good at the other thing, and if you watch me drive, I probably still am. The other thing that comes to mind reading the subsequent posts is money. Many keyboards cost more than a lot of things, and we don't want to think we blew it. Imagine if someone said, "you bought a house from that builder? Take shelter the next time the wind blows." Or, you love your new sporty car, and someone says, "wait until you have it in the shop more than on the road." Who do we get mad at? Who we bought it from? The someone with bad news? Ourselves? I saw something about Michael Shermer's The Believing Brain. His premise is that we have the beliefs first, and then find the reasons to justify those beliefs. I think a lot of this lines up with that. I've found myself coming up with reasons to dismiss the Debbie Downers when they criticize my decisions. "I'm so crazy, I don't know this is impossible! Hoo hoo!" - Daffy Duck "The good news is that once you start piano you never have to worry about getting laid again. More time to practice!" - MOI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stillplaying Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 "Men may construe things after their fashion" Casca or Cassius or someone (not the boxer with the mid career name change) Couldn't be arsed posting on the "keep it classy" thread. That's my contribution for the year above - back to pointless puns and complaining after this. It's from some play or other with Romans in it by some beardy bloke that isn't JR. I'm the piano player "off of" Borrowed Books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stillplaying Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 And in honour of the OP's icon: "Brainwash your kids because if you don't someone else will" Skinner (paraphrased) I'm the piano player "off of" Borrowed Books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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