JBL Eon 515XT First Impressions: IT'S NOT LOUD ENOUGH!!!

[Fusker]

Seriously, unless you're playing a stadium, there's no need for that much racket.

 

I'm currently playing a 1x12 80-watt SS combo, and will be moving to an 8-watt 1x10 tube combo very soon. Why? Because all I need is enough volume to hear myself along with the rest of the band, and I can accomplish that with a small amp pointing up at me on an amp stand. Furthermore, I can crank an 8-watt tube amp right to that beautiful edge of breakup, get all the resonance I need out of it for sustain, and do it all without stomping all over the rest of my bandmates.

 

What good does it do me to have an amp screaming loud (which is what you have to do with those massive 100-watt tube amps that you plug into those 4x12 cabs in order to get what you REALLY want out of them, which is natural tube saturation) and dominating the stage mix if no one else can hear WTF they're playing and the band suffers as a result?

 

If it were the "Griffinator Blues Band", and I were an arrogant asshole that only cared about my guitar tone, it would make sense for me to play a 4x12 with a huge amp onstage.

 

Since I play in the "Local rock/blues/whatever band", all I'm doing is making more work for myself on load-in/load-out and giving the sound man a whole bunch of grief he doesn't need.

 

This!

[Nu2Keys]

There is 'one' mic/line switch on the back of the Eon 515XT, located close to the third input. I assumed it was for the third input ONLY, but maybe it is global. If it is a global switch, then I guess it changes ALL of the inputs from mic to line? Seems odd to me.

 

With all due respect, have you even bothered to read the manual for this thing?

 

 

There's a MANUAL?!?

 

Actually, yes, I did read it/look thru it before I used it the first time. The mic/line switch is on the third input ONLY and the manual only recommends using the mic/line switch in the mic position when using a mic. All other sources are to use it in the "line" position. And that's just for input 3 anyway. A person couldn't run two keyboards in inputs 1 and 2 and a harp mic in input three and get equal volume between the three. I can't believe a unit with this much 'power' is designed so inadequately for actual use. You couldn't use this say as a PA for a solo gig unless it was a really quiet gig.

 

However, I think I've figured out what I'm going to do, how to solve this problem. I'll run out of the headphone out of my NE2, into a DI, into a Mixer, then into Input 3 which will be set in the 'mic' position. Maybe I'll get enough power then.

[Sven Golly]

Actually, yes, I did read it/look thru it before I used it the first time. The mic/line switch is on the third input ONLY and the manual only recommends using the mic/line switch in the mic position when using a mic. All other sources are to use it in the "line" position. And that's just for input 3 anyway. A person couldn't run two keyboards in inputs 1 and 2 and a harp mic in input three and get equal volume between the three. I can't believe a unit with this much 'power' is designed so inadequately for actual use. You couldn't use this say as a PA for a solo gig unless it was a really quiet gig.

 

However, I think I've figured out what I'm going to do, how to solve this problem. I'll run out of the headphone out of my NE2, into a DI, into a Mixer, then into Input 3 which will be set in the 'mic' position. Maybe I'll get enough power then.

 

Okay, I'm walking away from this thread now, because even with all the advice you've been given, and after supposedly reading the manual, you still don't understand how to use your gear. I'm out.

[Joe Muscara]

Gee Griff, you sound like the kind of guitar player I might actually want to play with. Imagine that.

[Griffinator]

Gee Griff, you sound like the kind of guitar player I might actually want to play with. Imagine that.

 

Probably not. My jazz chops pretty much suck.

[Joe Muscara]

Gee Griff, you sound like the kind of guitar player I might actually want to play with. Imagine that.

 

Probably not. My jazz chops pretty much suck.

So do mine!

[Nu2Keys]

Actually, yes, I did read it/look thru it before I used it the first time. The mic/line switch is on the third input ONLY and the manual only recommends using the mic/line switch in the mic position when using a mic. All other sources are to use it in the "line" position. And that's just for input 3 anyway. A person couldn't run two keyboards in inputs 1 and 2 and a harp mic in input three and get equal volume between the three. I can't believe a unit with this much 'power' is designed so inadequately for actual use. You couldn't use this say as a PA for a solo gig unless it was a really quiet gig.

 

However, I think I've figured out what I'm going to do, how to solve this problem. I'll run out of the headphone out of my NE2, into a DI, into a Mixer, then into Input 3 which will be set in the 'mic' position. Maybe I'll get enough power then.

 

Okay, I'm walking away from this thread now, because even with all the advice you've been given, and after supposedly reading the manual, you still don't understand how to use your gear. I'm out.

 

If the only usable advice that you can give is to read the manual then it's good that you're "OUT". BTW if I read the manual should I follow it's directions, or just read it for fun, cause if I follow it I'm only supposed to use the line/mic switch in the mic position when using a mic in that input. So which is it? Read the manual and follow it and not have enought power, or read the manual and ignore it?

[J. Dan]

You keep saying you don't have enough power. That has not been established, and more than likely, you have more than enough. You haven't tried a single thing anybody has suggested.

[Nu2Keys]

You keep saying you don't have enough power. That has not been established, and more than likely, you have more than enough. You haven't tried a single thing anybody has suggested.

 

You're right! I've had something every night this week and haven't even had time to hook the Eon up and try anything different. Maybe I can do that tonight. If so I'll get back with info tomorrow. Thanks Everyone!

[JeffLearman]

A person couldn't run two keyboards in inputs 1 and 2 and a harp mic in input three and get equal volume between the three. I can't believe a unit with this much 'power' is designed so inadequately for actual use. You couldn't use this say as a PA for a solo gig unless it was a really quiet gig.

The only thing wrong with it is that it doesn't have a feature you want: -10dBv compatibility on all three inputs. That's not inadequate design, that's lack of a feature you want. A feature that folks with +4dBu keyboards would not miss. Don't blame the manufacturer. (It's too bad there are two popular standards, though -10dBV seems to be on the wane.)

 

However, I think I've figured out what I'm going to do, how to solve this problem. I'll run out of the headphone out of my NE2, into a DI, into a Mixer, then into Input 3 which will be set in the 'mic' position. Maybe I'll get enough power then.

LOL. Don't stand too close to the speaker.

 

Ignore Sven when he's just being an asshat. He also has excellent things to contribute, which I never see because I muted him. (jk).

 

In order to figure out what I did from the user guide, I had to interpret and understand the specs and the block level diagram. The manual is not a tutorial. In fact, in this case you have to do the opposite of what the manual says to do.

[JeffLearman]

Seriously, unless you're playing a stadium, there's no need for that much racket.

 

I'm currently playing a 1x12 80-watt SS combo, and will be moving to an 8-watt 1x10 tube combo very soon. Why? Because all I need is enough volume to hear myself along with the rest of the band, and I can accomplish that with a small amp pointing up at me on an amp stand. Furthermore, I can crank an 8-watt tube amp right to that beautiful edge of breakup, get all the resonance I need out of it for sustain, and do it all without stomping all over the rest of my bandmates.

 

What good does it do me to have an amp screaming loud (which is what you have to do with those massive 100-watt tube amps that you plug into those 4x12 cabs in order to get what you REALLY want out of them, which is natural tube saturation) and dominating the stage mix if no one else can hear WTF they're playing and the band suffers as a result?

 

If it were the "Griffinator Blues Band", and I were an arrogant asshole that only cared about my guitar tone, it would make sense for me to play a 4x12 with a huge amp onstage.

 

Since I play in the "Local rock/blues/whatever band", all I'm doing is making more work for myself on load-in/load-out and giving the sound man a whole bunch of grief he doesn't need.

Now please convice all those other guitarists!

[frogmonkey]

You couldn't use this say as a PA for a solo gig unless it was a really quiet gig.

 

However, I think I've figured out what I'm going to do, how to solve this problem. I'll run out of the headphone out of my NE2, into a DI, into a Mixer, then into Input 3 which will be set in the 'mic' position. Maybe I'll get enough power then.

 

There's so much noise in this thread, that it's not surprising that you got the wrong idea. You don't need to do all that.

 

Use a Mixer.

*OR*

Use the Headphone Out.

*OR*

Set the mic/line switch to *mic*, and use a the third input. I don't see any need to use a direct box. The 3rd input will take a 1/4" cable. (You might find it works better with a direct box and and xlr cable, but it should be fine without).

 

I promise you, when you dial it in, it will be so loud it will blow your head off, and damage your guitarist's hearing if you so desire.

 

Although there's good advice in this thread, I'd suggest you stop reading and go try these things RIGHT NOW, starting with the mic/line idea (because it doesn't require any new gear). Dont' read any more until you've tried it.

[Griffinator]

Now please convice all those other guitarists!

 

I actually auditioned last night with a bunch of old cats who've been doing it for, I dunno, forever? The bassist and keys were both very appreciative that I plugged in my little 1x12 and kept myself to just loud enough where I could hear what I was playing, and let the drummer (his PA, he was running it) add as necessary to balance the mix.

[Sven Golly]

Ignore Sven when he's just being an asshat. He also has excellent things to contribute, which I never see because I muted him. (jk).

 

LOL... I do most of what I do just to entertain you, Jeff!

 

Frankly, though, I'm not the only one that's reached the conclusion that the inherent problem is more about reading and comprehension (forget the manual, let's just talk about this thread) than the gear. Call me an asshat if you must, I don't mind, but I stand by my statement.

[area51recording]

My favorite is when some of the Stevie Ray wannabe's in this neck of the woods line up 2 (sometimes 3) amps and let 'em eat....

[JeffLearman]

Frankly, though, I'm not the only one that's reached the conclusion that the inherent problem is more about reading and comprehension (forget the manual, let's just talk about this thread) than the gear. Call me an asshat if you must, I don't mind, but I stand by my statement.

Some of my favorite people are asshats.

[Sven Golly]

Some of my favorite people are asshats.

 

[Nu2Keys]

UPDATE: At the gig last Saturday night I borrowed the guitar players Behringer 1204 and used it to power the Eon and it worked just fine power wise. I had enough power to play at a good volume and still have headroom. There was a soundman and everything was miked but I had plenty of on-stage power, too. However, I wasn't really very happy with the sound using the Behringer. It seemed to muddy up the sound compared to the previous show when I ran direct from the NE2 to the Eon and it sounded so good and clean, but just not with enough power. I had bought a TRS-to-two-TS cable that afternoon that I had intended to try at break but it was more of a concert type gig and we didn't take a break.

 

I think I have to make a decision whether I want to send the Eon back.

[Griffinator]

Before you make that decision, you need to consider what you used as a mixer. Something like a Mackie, Yamaha, or even an Alesis small-format mixer will sound 100x better than that B****er.

[JeffLearman]

Any reason you're not planning to try the mic/line switch?

 

[Nu2Keys]

Any reason you're not planning to try the mic/line switch?

 

No, I will try it. I'm curious to see if it will work, too. However, I really had plans to use more than just one input and, since the mic/line switch works on input 3 only, I would still have two inputs that would be unusable for my needs. I'm thinking that I might be better off sending it back and spending the money on a dedicated three or four input keyboard amp.

[MoodyBluesKeys]

Before giving up on it and paying to ship the EONs back - try a better mixer. Even the little Tapco that I use does not add any audible hiss, noise, or distortion in live usage. After spending decades servicing musical electronics - I am of the firm opinion that you will get better sound from the EON and mixer than from most keyboard amps (except the very high end stuff).

 

[ITGITC]

I am of the firm opinion that you will get better sound from the EON and mixer than from most keyboard amps (except the very high end stuff).

Hi Jim.

 

Which high end keyboard amps are you thinking about?

 

Link to Sweetwater

 

Link to Musician's Friend

 

Link to Full Compass

 

 

[mate stubb]

Just looking at the list of kb amps on the Sweetwater link made me shudder.

[Nu2Keys]

Before giving up on it and paying to ship the EONs back - try a better mixer. Even the little Tapco that I use does not add any audible hiss, noise, or distortion in live usage. After spending decades servicing musical electronics - I am of the firm opinion that you will get better sound from the EON and mixer than from most keyboard amps (except the very high end stuff).

 

That's a good idea to try a different mixer. However, most likely I would have to buy one to try it. The most compliments I've ever gotton on my sound was the night I usesd our bass players spare amp.

[MoodyBluesKeys]

Hi Tom,

 

some of the Barbetta and Traynor models have a better reputation for decent sound. The links you give also led to various Leslies - they sound good for Hammond, but no so much for other things.

 

I have still spent my money on powered PA equipment. I presently have pairs of: EON 15G2 - good, not as good as my EV or QSC, bulky, hard to carry because of shape - they stay at church where they don't have to be moved. Side goodness - I can play my bass through them)

 

EON 10G2 - sound better than the 15's on keys - my biggest problem with them is overheating at band level, then the gain reducer drops their sound to a useless level. They now are in the living-room, on the family keyboard.

 

E-V SXA-100+ These sound good, although the 360's probably sound better. I bought them at a good used price, used them for gigs until I got the QSC's, now use them mostly in the studio.

 

QSC K10's - Sound good, two inputs, plenty of gain, easy to move. If I had not already had the EV's, I would probably have bought the 12's.

 

Overall - a scalable setup - I can produce sound for a good range of venues, by carrying the right combination. Venues large enough that my combinations are still too small usually have their own sound (or hired sound for the event).

 

I do have a very tiny (dreaded word coming up -----------) Roland CM-30 monitor amp with a 6.5" speaker. Sitting on a mic stand near me, it does make a good monitor for times I'm using house sound with a low stage volume level.

 

My idea it to carry as little as possible balanced with enough to do the job. My most frequent combination lately seems to be a single K10.

 

[ITGITC]

Hi Tom,

 

some of the Barbetta and Traynor models have a better reputation for decent sound. The links you give also led to various Leslies - they sound good for Hammond, but no so much for other things.

 

Thanks, Jim.

 

I haven't heard either the Barbetta or the Traynor, so I can't comment on how they sound.

 

I just wanted to be sure I wasn't overlooking anything.

 

Great information - thanks for posting.

 

Tom

 

[Nu2Keys]

UPDATE:

 

I finally got a chance to try some things last night with my NE2/JBL Eon combination. Here are the results.

 

1. Setting the third input Mic/Line switch to Mic and plugging the NE2 in like normal out of the mono out into my volume pedal and into the Eon's third channel. Result: Much louder

 

2. Running a TRS cable from the headphone out of the NE2 into two TS cables into two channels of the Eon. Result: Much Louder

 

3. Running out of the mono out of the NE2 into my volume pedal into a Electro-Harmonix LPB-1 power booster. Result: Much louder (but distorted, prob from the LPB-1)

 

4. Running out of the mono out of the NE2 into my volume pedal into one channel of the Eon with the channel volume nearly all the way up. Result: The best sound by far but probably not enough volume to gig with.

 

5. Last Saturday night at the gig I borrowed the guitar player's Beh 1204 mixer and used it to boost the power. Result: More volume but I didn't care for the sound.

 

My conclusion is that as built the JBL Eon 515 XT is not the correct piece of equipment and does not have enough volume for my needs. Now I have to decide whether to live with my purchase and buy a mixer to accomplish my original intentions, or sent it back.

 

Thanks to all for listening!

[mate stubb]

Why are you using an inline volume pedal instead of a control pedal to control expression?

 

You are not getting the authentic hammond tonal response to volume change.

[Sven Golly]

My conclusion is that as built the JBL Eon 515 XT is not the correct piece of equipment and does not have enough volume for my needs. Now I have to decide whether to live with my purchase and buy a mixer to accomplish my original intentions, or sent it back.

 

I know I said I was out, but I do want to try to help you here.

 

To be clear, if you choose to return the Eon, don't bother considering any other powered P.A. speaker, because they'll all behave in a similar fashion. Go get yourself a Roland KC series amp, and be done with it.