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JBL Eon 515XT First Impressions: IT'S NOT LOUD ENOUGH!!!


Nu2Keys

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Yeah, I bought the new Eon and used it for the first time Saturday night. It's just not loud enough to compete with two guitar players, bass player and drummer. It sounds great, tho! I guess I'll need a mixer after all to boost the power to useable levels. The whole point of buying a powered speaker with a built-in mixer was to avoid a separate mixer...it's weird...I've played my NE2 thru several various guitar amps and bass amps at various gigs for years with no volume issues, but a JBL Eon with 625 watts isn't loud enough!?! It was actually loud enough to use at about 3/4 volume but I didn't have any headroom at all and I didn't want to turn it all the way up. You wouldn't think you would have to with 625 watts!
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Still? Again?

 

It does sound like you were able to get what you needed out of it at 3/4 volume. That doesn't seem completely unreasonable to me, considering the "two guitars". Were they particularly loud guitars? I'm also curious to know more about the venue and setting and the sound system.

 

It's starting to seem like a fact of life with powered speakers, including the much-loved K10's and the last-generation Eons. And I wonder also if the (very loud) G2's were an anomaly, though they set the original standard in my mind.

OTOH, I've recently stopped using a mixer with my K10 at most gigs- I don't have many loud guitar gigs.

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That's dissapointing! I had high hopes for the new eon's.

 

Have you compared the eon vs any other speaker?

 

I've tried several 12" speakers and I've always felt that they didn't reproduce organ bass pedals well. I think the 15" speakers just work better for that application.

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That's dissapointing! I had high hopes for the new eon's.

 

Have you compared the eon vs any other speaker?

 

I've tried several 12" speakers and I've always felt that they didn't reproduce organ bass pedals well. I think the 15" speakers just work better for that application.

 

I've played the NE2 thru various guitar or bass amps with no volume problems. The Eon 515 has a 15" speaker. The sound was good.

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I have some Eons and if you toggle the +4/-10 switch in the back, you'll fix your volume problems. Rest assured. It will be a bit noisier but volume you'll get!

 

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I have some Eons and if you toggle the +4/-10 switch in the back, you'll fix your volume problems. Rest assured. It will be a bit noisier but volume you'll get!

 

Mine is the newest model Eon (I think), but I don't think it has a switch like that.

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Also, my first thought is that everyone else is too loud. :)

 

Yes, that's possible, but a 625 watt JBL Eon should hang with a 100 watt Fender Twin, shouldn't it?

 

I don't know....I've heard 40 watt Fender amps loud enough to make one sterile. I haven't tried the new EONs but my G2 15's have never let me down in the volume dept., mixer or not.

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I could imagine various reasons, but I don't know the speaker. It's a 15" for bass and (part of) midrange, so for the midrange it will bend and wave and what else have we, for sure, meaning the woofer isn't suitable per se for undirected midrange reproduction unless tricks are used.

 

Also, you're on a lake might mean you have a long extension cord which draws power away from the switched supply/amps in the machine.

 

I've a 15 inch in a normal room which is rated a 500 Watt max and probably at least can be fed a few hundred watts as it is all connected, and that is loud, but it doesn't do midrange good at all (it doesn't have to in my 5 way system it only works under 40 Hz as a sub), but it is great for sub. Even the 12" ers I've used live with among others a Yamaha S90 (and about a 100W per side amps) don't like doing the whole midrange.

 

Those guitar amps are probably cranked up outdoors in other ways than indoors making them sound midrangy, where the human hearing has it's peak sensitivity / hard to compete with in a nice way and probably not nice to try.

 

136 SPL at full power is definitively loud but how does it move at distances, and does that require a firm stand (rocking speakers is quite non-optimal, mostly) ?

 

When I use my system outside which is lets say twice 100W plus at least a few hundred sub (and a seperate, smalller, mid tweeter amp) many types of equalizations and compression are possible and only the "live sound type" of the good kinds give a (medium) long throw full range sound. Everything mid-rangy or "optimized for distorting guitar amp" in the wrong way will not work great at some distance. Most commercial loud systems have a built in loudness-hearing-protection systematic, that could kill the guitar amp type of sound, but probably is safer and nicer.

 

Theo

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Also, my first thought is that everyone else is too loud. :)

 

Yes, that's possible, but a 625 watt JBL Eon should hang with a 100 watt Fender Twin, shouldn't it?

 

I don't know, man, Twins are famously loud! I've heard a single cranked Twin put an Eon G2 through it's paces (and the G2 is also freaking loud).

 

Were you in the PA?

 

Playing outdoors definitely requires more power to get the apparent volume levels you're used to indoors.

 

You know that input sensitivity in powered speakers is not a new issue, right?

 

I have to admit some skepticism. "NOT LOUD ENOUGH!!!" doesn't give me the impression of a thoughtful review of a new product, especially one that specifically aims to have "improved input sensitivity".

 

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Watts are frickin' overrated. Musicians have been sucking down this load of marketing crap for too long.

 

1) The listed wattage on the amplifier could be peak, could be combined peak (in a bi-amp situation, which is likely what this is), or it could (but is less likely to) be RMS, which is the only meaningful statistic in reference to amplifiers.

 

2) In a combination powered cabinet like this one, the only number that means anything at all is Max SPL. This tells you how loud the speaker will get at maximum volume. If this number is below 125 dB, you're in a bucket of hurt if you're dealing with a loud stage environment, because it means you're cranking the sucker up to near-clipping in order to hear yourself, unless you stick the speaker 3 feet from your ear.

 

Don't believe the hype. Quit shopping for speakers based on watts!

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The NE2 has a notoriously weak output. However, it is way stronger than a guitar, so playing thru a guitar amp is no problem.

 

Guitar amp inputs are WAY more sensitive than line level inputs on a powered speaker.

 

Even if you had 6000 watts in that thing, if the instrument level is too weak, you won't be able to use them.

 

Do yourself a favor and make up a cable to come out of the headphone jack.

Moe

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Do yourself a favor and make up a cable to come out of the headphone jack.

 

+1, or better yet get a small mixer. It sounds like your sending an instrument level out from the NE2 into a line level input.

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I have a couple of things to try. I'm going to try my other board, a Ensoniq ZR76 and see what the differences in volume levels are. Also I was having a weird thing with my volume pedal at the gig. It seemed to be working almost more like an on/off rather than a gradual increase. I wish I had tried bypassing the volume pedal but I didn't think of it until later. I'll also try a guitar through it. (Hopefully) more info tomorrow...
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Also, my first thought is that everyone else is too loud. :)

 

Yes, that's possible, but a 625 watt JBL Eon should hang with a 100 watt Fender Twin, shouldn't it?

 

Not really - the Fender Twin does not have anywhere near a flat frequency response - my little 18 watt Fender Blues Jr. will get about as loud with my guitar feeding it and cranked to usual gutar distortion as my pair of K10's on my PC3 keyboard.

 

The guitar amp does not have to cover the wide frequency rangen needed with the usual keyboard patches. Plus - the guitar's peak output is right in the frequency range where the human ear is most sensitive. When I want to definitely be heard over the guitarist, I EQ to drop off both lows and highs, and choose a patch that has high peaks with low average - cuts through like an ice pick. Don't use it often, but occasionally the guitarist needs to be reminded that I CAN make myself heard.

 

 

Having said that, I have a pair of the older EON 15G2, which had a higher input sensitivity. I don't know if they improved the 515XT, but the original 515 had a lot of returns because of low gain. Electro 2 also has a lower output than a lot of boards.

 

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Plug an MP3 player or iPod into it and see what happens. It does sound like you weren't feeding it enough of an input signal somehow.

 

There is supposed to be a mic/line switch on the new ones too according to the specs.

 

Someone up there said that this wasn't a "thoughtful review". I never took it as a review at all, but a comment on a gig from a guy maybe looking for some answers.

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Plug an MP3 player or iPod into it and see what happens. It does sound like you weren't feeding it enough of an input signal somehow.

 

There is supposed to be a mic/line switch on the new ones too according to the specs.

 

Someone up there said that this wasn't a "thoughtful review". I never took it as a review at all, but a comment on a gig from a guy maybe looking for some answers.

 

I think there is a mic/line or some kind of switch on the third imput only. Maybe I'll try that! As for a review I think I said it sounded good, which it did. To me with keys I don't like a lot of mids but good lows and highs, which it supplied, just not loud enough. To me that's pretty simple. If a powered speaker is not cutting it at 3/4 of the way up then there's a problem.

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Also, my first thought is that everyone else is too loud. :)

 

Yes, that's possible, but a 625 watt JBL Eon should hang with a 100 watt Fender Twin, shouldn't it?

 

Nope. Not even on a bet! A Fender Twin is a LOUD amplifier and 100 watts of tube Fender will eat 625 watts of Class D solid state every time!

 

You're simply outgunned by your guitarists and they should turn down and/or you need to go through the FOH.

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Guitar amps are a different animal. My little 15 watt Line6 practice amp will blast over my 300 watt stereo. With a keyboard you avoid distorted levels. With a guitar you push for distortion. You need a lot of clean power to compete with dirty.
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What they all said.

 

A 100-watt, Tube Twin is overkill....you all should be running through the FOH for most outside gigs. That's why I've never understood needing a guitar amp that powerful. If you need to be that loud because of a large venue, you're generally running through the PA....and as I understand it, if your guitar amp is that big, you need to push that much harder to get your desired tone. All that being said, doesn't a less than 50-watt tube make the most sense?

 

I digress. Nearly forgot I was talking about guitarists :)

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If a powered speaker is not cutting it at 3/4 of the way up then there's a problem.

 

The volume knob 3/4 of the way up is not the same as 3/4 of the max output if you're feeding it a week signal. What matters if max output. Plus keep in mind, this is designed to be a PA speaker, not a keyboard amp. So there's no expectation that the inputs should be designed to have an input sensitivty to match your NE2. If you have to do some gain staging to get the proper signal level to the JBL, I don't think there's any reason to complain. Now if you get enough signal to it, and it starts clipping before getting you enough volume, that's a completely different story.

Dan

 

Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth.

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Guitar amps are a different animal. My little 15 watt Line6 practice amp will blast over my 300 watt stereo. With a keyboard you avoid distorted levels. With a guitar you push for distortion. You need a lot of clean power to compete with dirty.

 

I thought 625 watts WAS a lot!

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