Dana. Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 It does in my books. You want to play AP/EP, buy a digital piano. A MIDI controller without zones is like a bike without a seat. You might get there, but it's painful and embarrassing. You're missing the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sven Golly Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 It does in my books. You want to play AP/EP, buy a digital piano. A MIDI controller without zones is like a bike without a seat. You might get there, but it's painful and embarrassing. You're missing the point. Okay, if someone buys a 1-zone "MIDI Controller" (term used VERY loosely), they're not a freak... a manufacturer that has the audacity to produce a 1-zone "MIDI Controller" is guilty of, at the very least, irresponsible advertising. Is that better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dana. Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 No. And I don't see how it's "irresponsible advertising." A keyboard with a MIDI out is still a "MIDI controller" in that it allows one to control another device using MIDI. Want zones and more MIDI functionality? This is why we read specs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sven Golly Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 No. Well, I'm not going to bother trying to fix it for you, so... c'est la guerre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashville.Guru Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 I have been looking for a weighted action keyboard to control my VSTs through Midi (gosh, I need to choose my words carefully). Although splits are important for my needs, number of independant zones is hardly a consideration - I can set up any number of zones. The SL-880 is one of the keyboards I was looking at. I was rather taken aback when Sven implied that this ought not to be advertised as a 'Midi Controller'. This seems to be exactly what I need, but then again, what do I call it, if not a Midi Controller... ? You want to play AP/EP, buy a digital piano. I would, but most 'digital pianos' in the market don't come with pitch bend/mod wheels, and this does. A MIDI controller without zones is like a bike without a seat. You might get there, but it's painful and embarrassing I do have a high regard for the opinions of the pros on this forum. So when a solution that looks simple and elegant to me is called painful and embarassing, it's a bit scary...! Sven, I'd really appreciate it if you could elaborate on why you said so... Guru This is really what MIDI was originally about encouraging cooperation between companies that make the world a more creative place." - Dave Smith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
e-keys Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 One must remember that splits and zones can be set up in software (most). And action is paramount to me. So if I was on a budget, which i am, I would choose a pro action over the other. For my purposes it works great. The action on this board is very good. Better than many high end dps or ws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnchop Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 Ashville, I would argue with a pure VST solution it's a non-issue. 88-key weighted + <=40 pounds + pitch/mod (wheels, joystick... I don't care, as long as it's solid) + knobs + sliders + buttons + and some dedicated bank and program change buttons... I'm good. No need for zones. I would also like an Aston Martin that runs on jellybeans and rainbows. -John I make software noises. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashville.Guru Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 John, I didn't get the Aston Martin reference, but whatever it implies, I want one of those, too... ! This is really what MIDI was originally about encouraging cooperation between companies that make the world a more creative place." - Dave Smith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnchop Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 Just meaning that I want something that no one makes. Well, except Studiologic. I just hear horror stories about built quality and bugs. Same with CME, although Thomas Dolby and Steve Nathan use them, so... Anyway, I guess that's what return policies are for. I make software noises. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashville.Guru Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 Ahh, crystal clear now. I thought the VMK-188(or the 88 Plus) might be exactly what you've described, hence the confusion. I've heard of the CME horror stories, and the Akai's weight is almost as scary; but I haven't heard of chronic 'bugs' with the Studiologic series. But I have read somewhere that patch changes are awfully slow, or something to that effect ... This is really what MIDI was originally about encouraging cooperation between companies that make the world a more creative place." - Dave Smith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashville.Guru Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 Oh, and you might want to rethink the Aston Martin reference - I hear legends of one Roland A-90 that was made eons ago, so what you have been describing has actually been made, sometime in the past. The legends also say that the secret of making it was forever locked away, as the sages decided that mankind was yet not ready for such a machine... This is really what MIDI was originally about encouraging cooperation between companies that make the world a more creative place." - Dave Smith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leh173 Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 Generally, the current crop of dumb MIDI controllers = don't bother. I tried their Axiom Pro 61. Two of em. Build quality was a joke. Keys stuck, knobs were either loose or stiff as. By all accounts the Roland A series controllers of yesteryear (NOT the current plastic ones) were the last time these things were any good. I'm playing a D-70 as a controller until I buy a new hardware synth for live. Moving on. Roland Fantom G6, D-70, JP-8000, Juno-106, JV-1080, Moog Minitaur, Korg Volca Keys, Yamaha DX-7. TG33, Logic Pro, NI plugs, Arturia plugs etc etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUSSIEKEYS Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 do not get a Keystation Pro. got one when I was literally on the way to a [not close] relatives funeral...yes guess I was just in the mood and it looked shiny and i had to face the wake after my music shop stop. So it just happened without any thought..I was blinded by the light. well it took a few returns [3 keyboards] to get one I could actually play...but it was never something that gelled..... keys felt like a drunk kangaroo boxing. sure they had punch but were inconsistant ..still the 3rd one was consistant on the white keys, but the black were never consistant to the whites...if you want fluid playing forget it it could have been something had they got the keys right..but they didnt. ps. I have had many controllers in my time [i still own an A80 roland] this one just happened because it appeared in front of me/..never heard of them and it looked so shiney and so much for so little and I was in the mood to just spend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seannn Posted June 26, 2011 Author Share Posted June 26, 2011 Well, a little update - I won't be buying the Keystation Pro, so thank you all for your insight on this! Action is very important to me, and I don't want something flimsy. I've tried out some nightmarish keyboards in stores, and I sure hope they don't make it to people's homes. My search for a weighted controller/digital piano continues - I may just wait and buy an SV1, unless I can find something before then, for studio use, for the right price. (I was thinking of waiting until NAMM in case there is an SV2 announcement, but I doubt it...) I've played on a Roland A-70 - I didn't like the feel, but then again, it wasn't designed for piano action. I remember it feeling a bit too springy actually (even for organ). Perhaps I will try to seek out a Roland A-80 or A-90, I've read/heard a lot of good things. What's the right price for something like that? As per the current M-Audio offerings, how are the ProKeys and Oxygen 88? Are they using Fatar key beds? ~ Sean Juno-60, Juno-G, MicroBrute, MS-20 Mini, PX-5S, R3, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dana. Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 I don't like quoting myself but... I haven't seen the Oxygen 88 in stores. As for the ProKeys, it has the same action as the Keystation Pro. The writing is on the wall here: DO NOT buy these M-Audio boards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seannn Posted June 26, 2011 Author Share Posted June 26, 2011 I did recall some M-Audio discussion on the previous page, pardon my ignorance, D-Bon! What a shame about the keyboards - I guess I'll stick to my SP-2, now that I could rely on. At this rate, I may have to keep my mouth shut and head down if I end up with any of their controllers! On a related note, the latest Sweetwater novel catalog showed up to provide some commode distraction, and it appears Akai has a weighted 88-key controller (MPK88) I wasn't aware of, and M-Audio has an 88-key entry in their Oxygen line (not sure if it's simply a re-badged Keystation or an improved line). Might those be options for the OP? Thanks for the suggestions! Ultimately, everyone has a different taste in keyboards, and I'll have to try these myself. Regarding the Oxygen, well, if it's anything like the ProKeys, I think the tribe has spoken on my behalf, as I'm definitely not looking for something with faux piano action. I've come across the MPK-88 before, and heard very good things about it from the sales rep at Steve's about a year ago. But I don't know if I'm ready to fish out $850 (at that retailer, anyways). ~ Sean Juno-60, Juno-G, MicroBrute, MS-20 Mini, PX-5S, R3, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dana. Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 I did recall some M-Audio discussion on the previous page, my ignorance, D-Bon! What a shame about the keyboards... I guess I'll stick to my SP-2 and deal with it. Just trying to save you grief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leh173 Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 If these modern MIDI controllers seem like they're too good to be true when you see their prices, well that's because they are. Roland Fantom G6, D-70, JP-8000, Juno-106, JV-1080, Moog Minitaur, Korg Volca Keys, Yamaha DX-7. TG33, Logic Pro, NI plugs, Arturia plugs etc etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUSSIEKEYS Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 If these modern MIDI controllers seem like they're too good to be true when you see their prices, well that's because they are. well yes and no originally the keystation pro was not as cheap as now here in Aussie it was around $1200Au originally now thats not cheap but it is value for what it propossed..until we found out the keybed sucked..i think the rest of the stuff on it is good value when i bought mine it was at a shop sale with price dropped close to wholesale i think just under $800Au when i sold it 1 year later i still got only $5 less than i paid for it in recent times it was down to under $500 new in aussie...now we are talking cheap just because it is cheap later doesnt mean it was cheap to start with.. if you compare a casio privia or PX3 price wise it can be done..the casio has quality build for around a similar price to the original keystation..if you want to split hairs a cheaper privia of comparable price has a good feeling keybed that is reliable../.so the keystation was not as cheap as people made out..its just now its pricing is super cheap... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leh173 Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 I get your point, but until last year most musical gear in Australia is not cheap compared to OS prices. Roland Fantom G6, D-70, JP-8000, Juno-106, JV-1080, Moog Minitaur, Korg Volca Keys, Yamaha DX-7. TG33, Logic Pro, NI plugs, Arturia plugs etc etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUSSIEKEYS Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 no but I am taking it oranges for oranges..only comparing Aussie prices to Aussie prices for that $1200Au it compared with the lower privias such as the PX120 which actually has a good keybed...so it proves a cheap keyboard can have a good keybed and the casio cheaper no name privias at the time were about $800Au and still had a bwetter keybed than the keystation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUSSIEKEYS Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 can anyone tell me how to get this damn reply screen to respond..it keeps scrolling back to the top everytime i type. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoodyBluesKeys Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 If you are using IE 8 or 9 as a browser,try clicking on the icon for "compatibility mode" just to the left of the circular arrow that means reload on IE 9. Howard Grand|Hamm SK1-73|Kurz PC2|PC2X|PC3|PC3X|PC361; QSC K10's HP DAW|Epi Les Paul & LP 5-str bass|iPad mini2 "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leh173 Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 I know what you're saying, but the way I see it is that in OS, particularly US, markets where the retail price to build cost of these devices is much more realistic, these things promise a lot for what they cost to build and retail and at that level there's no way they can have the action/feel/quality that a decent player would expect or be used to. I found this out the hard way last year... Just my 2 cents. EDIT: sorry aussiekeys didn't see your bit about the casios. Thats a good sign then that they are decent for their price. The M-Audio stuff is generally poor in my view. Novation aren't much better. Akai is a better built in that price area. Roland Fantom G6, D-70, JP-8000, Juno-106, JV-1080, Moog Minitaur, Korg Volca Keys, Yamaha DX-7. TG33, Logic Pro, NI plugs, Arturia plugs etc etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUSSIEKEYS Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 I know what you're saying, but the way I see it is that in OS, particularly US, markets where the retail price to build cost of these devices is much more realistic, these things promise a lot for what they cost to build and retail and at that level there's no way they can have the action/feel/quality that a decent player would expect or be used to. I found this out the hard way last year... Just my 2 cents. EDIT: sorry aussiekeys didn't see your bit about the casios. Thats a good sign then that they are decent for their price. The M-Audio stuff is generally poor in my view. Novation aren't much better. Akai is a better built in that price area. cool man..love to hear more Aussie experiences on here what did you get burned on [sorry if i missed it] yep sorry the casio stuff i was editing as you were typing i think mate you cant beat a privia for quality and value for its price. agree on Akai..always good stuff I actually had an Akai MX73 controller..functions perfect for a controller but hated the action...but this was not a quality thing it was just they used a synth action for a 76 note controller that i didnt like..it worked as it should and was not a crappy keybed just a too light feeling for me. i would give most Akai stuff a good rap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUSSIEKEYS Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 If you are using IE 8 or 9 as a browser,try clicking on the icon for "compatibility mode" just to the left of the circular arrow that means reload on IE 9. thanks mate yea knew about that and did it but it didnt help sometimes its ok...but mostly its not hence i come on here less because writing and editing is a pain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leh173 Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 I tried the Novation SL MK2, great MIDI control OK board, but huge splits and gaps opening up in the chassis and dinky faders etc. I mentioned the Axiom Pro earlier, but the sticky keys, keys mislaid in the keybed, eneven velocities, knobs at different resistances... I ended up with a Akai MPK61, which had a faulty key contact within a day, but got that fixed. Still have it, it's well built but I haven't been able to get used to the keybed feel... I've decided I just want to use a hardware synth live now instead of a laptop setup. Too much hassle. My picked up an old D-70 for sentimental reasons and love it to play and it actually has great sounds, warm for it's time. Roland Fantom G6, D-70, JP-8000, Juno-106, JV-1080, Moog Minitaur, Korg Volca Keys, Yamaha DX-7. TG33, Logic Pro, NI plugs, Arturia plugs etc etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUSSIEKEYS Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 I tried the Novation SL MK2, great MIDI control OK board, but huge splits and gaps opening up in the chassis and dinky faders etc. I mentioned the Axiom Pro earlier, but the sticky keys, keys mislaid in the keybed, eneven velocities, knobs at different resistances... I ended up with a Akai MPK61, which had a faulty key contact within a day, but got that fixed. Still have it, it's well built but I haven't been able to get used to the keybed feel... I've decided I just want to use a hardware synth live now instead of a laptop setup. Too much hassle. My picked up an old D-70 for sentimental reasons and love it to play and it actually has great sounds, warm for it's time. yeah its a shame these companies do great software in there synths but stuff up on the hardware side. D70 why not..I have heaps of old gear as I'm a bit of a hoarder..and love it, but for live due to health I have had to pick only lightweight gear hence using privias..although may use my novation supernova desktop with it or/and my newly aquired old Alesis QS6.1 so many of my old boards are too heavy for me...this is one thing with modern gear it can be very light, but that then creates problems sometimes.. ironically the keystation pro is rather heavy..it has a particle board [mdf] base...simply flick the keyboard over and you see bare mdf..a bit freaky but I can accept that..just dont get it wet as it doesnt look protected [it may have clear on it?] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leh173 Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 The D-70 is a great underrated board, though in usual Roland fashion, it's OS is bonkers! Roland Fantom G6, D-70, JP-8000, Juno-106, JV-1080, Moog Minitaur, Korg Volca Keys, Yamaha DX-7. TG33, Logic Pro, NI plugs, Arturia plugs etc etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUSSIEKEYS Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 exactly..it was one of the first 76 note affordable boards.. should make a good controller for one zone I'd add an Alesis Quadrasynth module or similar for multiple zoning and synth sounds even sequenced files on later modules. [ie: 16 zones internal synth sounds or external] makes one powerful old style package for little $ too many people forget what can be done with old gear..as long as reliability aseems ok..no probs. hey Leh 173 if you like your D70 and trust its reliability why not buy a modern multitimbral module with good zoning features? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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