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VK8m + Vent v Electro 2


Marillo

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I've noticed the Roland VK8M's are going fairly cheaply on Ebay these days. Do you guys think this module plus a Vent would have the edge on an Electro 2 in terms of organ?

 

I know the Electro has the better tone but how much difference would a Vent make in 'lifting' the VK8M do you think?

 

By the same token, given that I own a Kurz SP4-7 which has some KB3 programs in it, would a Vent on its own be enough to lift those sounds to that of an Electro 2?

 

Thanks in advance...

Simon

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I would think so - the KB3 sounds on your SP4 are just like those on my PC3, except that the Leslie emulation has to be lightened enough to fit in the available effects limits.

 

Also, there may be help when OS 2.0 comes out for the SP4. Currently, my PC3 running OS 2.03 beta gives Hammond/Leslie that I like as well as my Electro 3.

Howard Grand|Hamm SK1-73|Kurz PC2|PC2X|PC3|PC3X|PC361; QSC K10's

HP DAW|Epi Les Paul & LP 5-str bass|iPad mini2

"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."

Jim

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Thanks for the reply MoodyBluesKeys...yes I've read the info about the 'Big Leslie' on the new PC3 update with interest. I think this will be limited to the PC3 though because of the number of FX chains required.

However maybe the Vent alone would be enough to take the KB3 samples to 'another level'...I don't know much about Hammond organs so am not sure which is the key factor in getting the sound - the tone itself or the Leslie.

Cheers

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The Big Leslie takes 14 of 16 effects units on a PC3. BTW, I don't use the new Big Leslie's 11 present patches as much as I used some of the others. There are over 80 different Leslie effects on the PC3, programmed to emulate different models, and different styles.

 

Dave Weiser mentioned that there would be 64 new programs that can run on the SP4, including some more KB3 patches.

 

Hammond/Leslie sound: There are many variations, different artists and different genres. I have played some real B3's (I serviced them along with other musical electronics for several decades).

 

Assuming a reasonable Hammond sound, the next most important thing is the player's technique, then the Leslie effect.

 

I bought an Electro 3 during OS version 1.35 with the PC3 (I like using two boards anyhow, more freedom than zoning stuff, and I can set up next patch on the PC3 while playing the Nord. However, if the KB3 sounds had been as good at the time as they are now, I would probably have bought a PC361 for the upper keyboard. I'm not complaining about the Nord, it does have its own virtues (the compact size and very light weight is a real plus). The Kurz and Electro do work well together.

 

The clone that most closely replicates the B3 experience is the XK3c by Hammond-Suzuki - not only because of tone, but placement of controls. Much of the Hammond technique involves changing of various controls (especially drawbars) while playing. Most of what little I know of this has come from observing those who really play the Hammond well, and learning from their techniques. I still have a good ways to go.

 

If you get the Vent, get it before the Roland, and try it with the SP4 - you may well find that's all you need.

 

Howard Grand|Hamm SK1-73|Kurz PC2|PC2X|PC3|PC3X|PC361; QSC K10's

HP DAW|Epi Les Paul & LP 5-str bass|iPad mini2

"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."

Jim

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There are a lot of Roland organ haters on this forum but I am not one of them. Particularly regarding the VK8m.

 

I found that the the VK8m had the chorus vibrato that I personally preferred of any clone until the Numa came out. But in order to get that, you had to bypass the leslie sim and that needed to be done with a sysex command.

 

The amp setting that had the real good chorus is called VINTAGE 1 and you must have the leslie sim off and bypassed. How many of the people on this forum have actually heard it? I doubt many have.

 

The VK8m also has very good overdrive and the leslie sim is not bad for 2002 when it came out. I haven't tried it with a Ventilator but my guess is that it would work well.

 

As far as a Vent taking it to another level I am not sure.... I thought the VK8m was OK on the level it was on. I don't need leslie effect to enjoy playing organ personally but through phones I was often OK with the VK8m and nothing else.

 

I think if you can have it for 5 to 600 dollars it is an absolute bargain. My VK8m was stolen and now I have a Numa but while I had it it was one of the best pieces of gear I owned.

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The clone that most closely replicates the B3 experience is the XK3c by Hammond-Suzuki - not only because of tone, but placement of controls.

 

Actually, for ergonomics it is in 3rd or 4th place.

 

Hamichord is an exact match except for non latching preset keys, organ style rockers instead of tilting tablets, and adding extra controls on the cheeks.

 

KeyB Duo is the next closest but loses the reverse key presets.

 

Both these clones have 4 sets of drawbars. This is important to the organist who grew up on a real Hammond, because the vast majority use one set while setting up the other, instead of the preset keys.

 

Next would be the single manual, 2 drawbar set clone XK3-C with the added lower manual, then everybody else. By this point, drawbar sets are missing, controls are in wrong location, etc.

Moe

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The price for a new VK8-M is absurd, given the competition.

 

But, I've played one a number of times, and even without a Vent, it's a very usable piece of kit, and it has DRAWBARS! I don't think you get those with your SP4-7. They really do make a difference, even if you're not the kind of player who works them a lot while playing.

 

First, you learn what presets you want a lot faster & better.

Second, you can fine tune on the fly to suit the room.

 

Even more important than drawbars is an expression pedal; presumably you can use that with your Kurz, so it's not a pro/con.

 

The problem with the VK8-M + Vent is that the combined price is probably more than a used NE2-61, and I'd rather have the extra keyboard at the price.

 

Here's how I'd rank the clonewheels I've played:

 

XK-3c

XK-1

NIB4 (software)

NE2

VK8-M

 

I used to use NIB4 regularly and while that sounds better than NE2, I prefer the convenience and extra keyboard that the NE2 gives me.

 

I haven't played NE3 enough yet, but tone-wise, I think it's about on par with NIB4, with different advantages to each. (I also have drawbars for NIB4.)

 

I haven't played a ventilator yet. I hear they're lovely, but $500 is a notable expense, and it complicates things. For example, when changing from organ to other sounds, one has to kick it into bypass mode.

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Yeah, cheapest "buy it now" price I see for VK8-M is 1100, versus 1200 for NE2-73 (there are no NE2-61's now).

 

I'd go for the NE2-73 over the VK8-m, or better yet (price-wise) watch for a 61.

 

I agree with LX88 that if you can find it under $600, it's a good deal. But then, I had a chance to buy an NE2-61 for $600, and that was over a year ago. A friend of mine just got an XK-1 for $700, but I guess that involved a bit of luck.

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The problem with the VK8-M + Vent is that the combined price is probably more than a used NE2-61, and I'd rather have the extra keyboard at the price.

To be fair, I think they should either be compared both with Ventilators, or both without, as both include Leslie simulators that are okay but not state-of-the-art, so why figure the price of addressing that for one but not the other?

 

There are also many cases where having the "extra keyboard" is a hindrance rather than a benefit. A VK8-M can be easy to add to an existing 2-keyboard rig. An NE2-61 may instead mean setting up 3 boards on stage... for some kinds of gigs, more than two keyboards looks out of place. Not to mention the issues of stage space and needing to possibly upgrade to a 3-tier stand.

 

If I didn't "need" the extra board, I'd rather have the module. Plus it has real drawbars. I'd only pick an NE2-61 over a VK-8M if I needed a 2nd board or if I wanted its EP/Clav sounds.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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Assuming a reasonable Hammond sound, the next most important thing is the player's technique

 

Oh, so *that's* my problem! :)

 

Seriously, though: organ technique is hard to grok if you come from a piano background like me.

Yamaha P2 acoustic, Yamaha P120 digital, Nord Electro 3HP, QSC K10.

FOR SALE: Nord Electro 2-61.

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If your going for a used Electro 2, there's also the Electro 2 rack. Just saying... it's only the NE3 that's not available in a rack version.

Still - any clone through a vent will probably kill the NE2. The vent is really cool... I have one! :)

Too much stuff, too little time, too few gigs, should spend more time practicing...!  🙄

main instruments: Nord Stage 3 compact, Yamaha CP88, Kurzweil PC4, Viscount KeyB Legend Live

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The VK8m is pretty underrated. It sits nicely on top of a synth action ROMpler and gives you real drawbars. I'm one would rather have the sound without the keys. Not only do I not have space for another keyboard, a module is easier to send for service, sell on Ebay, and does not have as many mechanical parts to fail.

This post edited for speling.

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I heard Geoff Downes with Asia about two weeks ago at the Chicago HOB. He was using a VK-8m. It sounded OK, but nothing special, IMHO. So "+1" for coupling the VK-8m with a Ventilator.

 

I use a Ventilator with the organs on my Nord Stage (classic), which it definitely took it "to the next level." The Ventilator is, without question, a "game-changer."

 

Sorry folks, now drink up!

 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing."

- George Bernard Shaw

 

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The Ventilator is, without question, a "game-changer."

 

Sorry folks, now drink up!

 

Man, it's a little early here yet, but...

 

:snax:

:laugh:

 

Don't mean to be a bad influence!

 

Interestingly, Mr. Downe's pianos did not sound all that hot either, and I believe I saw an "Ivory" screen on his laptop.

 

Sorry for the diversion......

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing."

- George Bernard Shaw

 

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