d halfnote Posted May 21, 2011 Share Posted May 21, 2011 To adress a tangential question asked earlier re: tonal languages (Mandarin, Viet, etc., wherein pitch inflection affects word meaning). This is not confined to the Far East. I've just been reading on the subject of sub-Saharan Ituri Pygmy music & some central African languages are tonal. d=halfnote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeljjison Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 I've memorised some pitches. Did do quite a bit of this course. It's not perfect pitch as we want it to be though... As a musician, we all come across a lot of others, and probably many others with perfect pitch, relative pitch, or the even more common, relative pitch guy/gal who has memorised a few pitches. Most guitarists recognise an E for example. If pressed most jazzers will recognise and F or a Bb, depending on their favourite blues head! I've met a few people who I reckon have perfect pitch. 1.) An untrained singer (nice voice though), who always can tell whether I'm playing in the original key or not, and remembers the original keys to everything we ever play without effort. 2.) Her daughter. 3.) A pianist who has claimed to have learnt it. I'm inclined to believe him though... He was at uni with me studying jazz, and could easily duplicate lines anyone played to him, or recordings, move them around. We had fun throwing crazy requests at him, playing insane intervals, really complicated chords, and asking him for them, and making him sing pitches... he told us for one year he spent one month playing ONLY in one key. So he'd be in C in January, F in feb etcetera.... That sounds so insane that it might be plausible. What do y'all think? Apart from how impractical it is for a working musician... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d halfnote Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 The more one becomes familiar with anything (scale, key on thier instrument, etc) the more they may recognize the territory... d=halfnote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle ggurl Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 I used to have a pretty remarkable memory for numbers. I could recall all sorts of insignificant numbers instantly. Phone numbers of people I hadn't called in 25 years, combinations to high school lockers, stuff like that. It has, I sorry to say begun to lose power as I've reached geezerdom, although yesterday I wanted to call the credit union I got my 1st Nashville mortgage from (20 years ago) and their phone# popped into my head instantly! ... AND, further evidence that we are not all wired the same. Steve, I too have this "rain man"-like ability to remember numbers of all kinds, yet I don't have absolute pitch (just "really good pitch" as Larry described earlier, LOL). It's waned in recent years -- I think it's mommy-brain stupor, where I'm mostly living in the moment, but someone's else's moment, a 3-year-old's moment -- but also, since the most practical application I ever had for this numerical recall was phone numbers, I find I remember fewer numbers now that I use a cell phone exclusively and don't dial too many numbers anymore! I still remember the number for the local library, Home Depot, restaurants where I no longer patronize (or do so rarely), my childhood phone numbers and defunct numbers of my relatives way back when ... Original Latin Jazz CD Baby "I am not certain how original my contribution to music is as I am obviously an amateur." Patti Smith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Loving Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 I have got to remember that "living in the moment --but someone else's moment" great insight. "Forget it, Jake. It's Chinatown." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d halfnote Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 NEW QUESTION: Is it possible that abilities such as AP have a connection to synesthesia (sensory crossover) ? Consider the nature of a auditory sensory input that is often described in terms of color... d=halfnote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Nathan Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 Consider the nature of a auditory sensory input that is often described in terms of color... Barry Becket was playing B3 for Buffy Saint Marie, who kept insisting that the organ tone needed to be more "green". Barry took her out to the Hammond, showed her the drawbars and said "I'm gonna pull these out one at a time. When I hit green, let me know". Don't rush me. I'm playing as slowly as I can! http://www.stevenathanmusic.com/stevenathanmusic.com/HOME.html https://apple.co/2EGpYXK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Muscara Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 "I'm so crazy, I don't know this is impossible! Hoo hoo!" - Daffy Duck "The good news is that once you start piano you never have to worry about getting laid again. More time to practice!" - MOI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnchop Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 To hell with Perfect Pitch. I'd like Perfect Groove. Where's that course? I make software noises. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tarkus Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 Consider the nature of a auditory sensory input that is often described in terms of color... Barry Becket was playing B3 for Buffy Saint Marie, who kept insisting that the organ tone needed to be more "green". Barry took her out to the Hammond, showed her the drawbars and said "I'm gonna pull these out one at a time. When I hit green, let me know". That's almost as bad as the constant / daily "best tone-wood" thread in the bass & guitar forums... "Maple is Bright and snappy... Mahogany is dark and warm... "if you need more growl you should look at pau ferro or ziricote..." I shite you not. Guit players and bass players will argue over eternity that they have the audio-sensory perception of a fruit-bat and you'll even get a mod or two to confirm the phenomena of tone colors from solid body electric instruments (albeit -unplugged)... (then you sneak in: "I have an all carbon graphite instrument - what color is it's tone?) Perfect pitch to musos is like camoflage to hunters. You really don't need to dress up like a tree to fool an animal, but it's great way to part cash from yer wallet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffinator Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 Tarkus, you have obviously never played a guitar or a bass for any significant amount of time if you scoff at the difference in the sound of various woods, because it is as obvious as the nose on your face. Oh - and graphite would closely resemble an extremely hard wood like teak or mahogany (which would actually be very bright, as the denser the wood the more reflective and less absorbent it is) There is sound science behind the frequency response nature of tone wood, and it is reproducible science. Your ridiculous statement would be akin to me claiming that there is no difference in the frequency response character of grand pianos. A bunch of loud, obnoxious music I USED to make with friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tarkus Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 baaah - 45 years n this earth and 35 of em playing, guitars, basses, mandos, pianos etc... Back in the 80's we used to play the Alembic Bass sample that was part of the Roland S-10 library as part of a blind test prank the number 1 response from the players was P-Bass The number 2 response was J-bass Pull back the curtain - and there is the Roland S-10 sampler! LMAO! I believe in a laboratory with all the bells-whistles and gizmos - you could see the different frequency responses, I don't question the science. i question the fruit-bat. ask any guit player or bass player to do a blind test - they'll pick whatever they were conditioned to believe. People are gullible - I don't doubt science of sound, but when Joe Schmo says he can irrefutibly tell me the precise woods that produce the precise tone (wtf is growl anyway?) without the aid of an oscilliscope (sp) I call BS. Same with creepy guy trying to teach "perfect pitch". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tarkus Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 sorry to derail thread, but you can see why people want to believe certain things and there are salesmen at the ready to fulfil their beliefs. Prof Dominy's Carbon Violin: (sure the guys that built it and tested saw and heard the sonic differences, but it is remarkable to hear the side-by-side comparison) http://www.thisisnottingham.co.uk/news/University-produces-carbon-copy-18th-century-violin/article-1341287-detail/article.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffinator Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 Well, I do know that my Ibanez S series (flame maple) gives off a much brighter tone than my old Fender Lead I (ash) used to, and I kinda miss that dark tone sometimes, but wouldn't go back to that piece 'o' crap if you paid me. A bunch of loud, obnoxious music I USED to make with friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cygnus64 Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 sorry to derail thread, but you can see why people want to believe certain things and there are salesmen at the ready to fulfil their beliefs. Prof Dominy's Carbon Violin: (sure the guys that built it and tested saw and heard the sonic differences, but it is remarkable to hear the side-by-side comparison) http://www.thisisnottingham.co.uk/news/University-produces-carbon-copy-18th-century-violin/article-1341287-detail/article.html [Nerd alert]There are 3 of these carbon fiber axes in town here, I've played two of them personally. They are the most God-Awful pieces of Shiat on this planet. The demo on that site isn't helping: you hear someone play very poorly on a carbon fiber, then very poorly on an acoustic. It's like a battle of the terribles, and the acoustic is probably a cigar box to boot. I can't really pick a winner, I hear two horrible sounds. If you take a pro player with a serious wooden instrument and compare it to one of those carbon thingies, it's like comparing Angelina Jolie to Rosie O' Donnell. Light-years apart, those carbon things- OY! Horrible. I'd rather get a cereal box and put some strings on it.[/Nerd alert] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle ggurl Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 The demo on that site isn't helping: you hear someone play very poorly on a carbon fiber, then very poorly on an acoustic. It's like a battle of the terribles, and the acoustic is probably a cigar box to boot. I can't really pick a winner, ... Sure you can: would you prefer a sharp stick in the eye, or bamboo under your fingernails? Regarding wood/composite body material and tone, it certainly does contribute even to electric instruments (basses, guitars, etc). Not just my imagination/perception (I've played electric bass and dabbled in guitar for almost as long as I've been a pianist/keyboardist), but the concept of how transduction works. However, this can't really be separated out from selection of strings, pickups, amps, and playing technique, when evaluating how an instrument sounds, can it? I wouldn't think so ... not to stray too much from the topic at hand ... Original Latin Jazz CD Baby "I am not certain how original my contribution to music is as I am obviously an amateur." Patti Smith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle ggurl Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 I have got to remember that "living in the moment --but someone else's moment" great insight. Thanks Daviel ... do you have kids? If so the insight might seem a tad more mundane. In any case, you may send royalty fees to me directly for future use of this phrase. Original Latin Jazz CD Baby "I am not certain how original my contribution to music is as I am obviously an amateur." Patti Smith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffinator Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 Absolutely all the components have their own effect on the sound coming out of the speaker, GG. However, to deny that some guy who may well be a complete moron outside his ability to play the instrument cannot differentiate between two instruments after having played for 20-30 years, is more than a bit haughty. A bunch of loud, obnoxious music I USED to make with friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffLearman Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 True, Griff, but on the other hand, people are easily misled by their expectations. *Very* easily. On a similar note, I've always been amazed at how tuning a piano affects the way the action feels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffLearman Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 To hell with Perfect Pitch. I'd like Perfect Groove. Where's that course? Me too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffinator Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 True, Griff, but on the other hand, people are easily misled by their expectations. *Very* easily. On a similar note, I've always been amazed at how tuning a piano affects the way the action feels. Well, the placebo effect is no joke, that's for sure. A bunch of loud, obnoxious music I USED to make with friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d halfnote Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 Consider the nature of a auditory sensory input that is often described in terms of color... Barry Becket was playing B3 for Buffy Saint Marie, who kept insisting that the organ tone needed to be more "green". Barry took her out to the Hammond, showed her the drawbars and said "I'm gonna pull these out one at a time. When I hit green, let me know". Yeah, some artist(e)s are creatively vague... My question's serious, however. There are well documented cases of people who always associate certain things with colors or other unrelated (to most of us) things. They always see the letter "L" as yellow, etc. While not expalining AP fully, could these perceptions be behind the association that some attach to their musical perceptions ? d=halfnote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d halfnote Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 To hell with Perfect Pitch. I'd like Perfect Groove. Where's that course? Me too! Check yer James Brown rec. collection ... d=halfnote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Nathan Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 Will driving home today I tuned in late to a discussion on NPR and heard someone reference "the work of Pamela Heaton". Looks interesting and one thing in particular caught my attention. Perhaps my feeling that PP is more Rainman than P.T. Barnum, is not that far off the mark. clonk Assessing musical skills in autistic children who are not savants Heaton, Pam F., 2009. Assessing musical skills in autistic children who are not savants. Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society B: Biological Sciences, 364 (1522), pp. 1443-1447. ISSN 0962-8436 [Article] No full text or other material available at this time. (Request a copy) Official URL: http://dx.doi.org/10.1098/rstb.2008.0327 Abstract or Description Descriptions of autistic musical savants suggest that they possess extraordinary skills within the domain. However, until recently little was known about the musical skills and potential of individuals with autism who are not savants. The results from these more recent studies investigating music perception, cognition and learning in musically untrained children with autism have revealed a pattern of abilities that are either enhanced or spared. For example, increased sensitivity to musical pitch and timbre is frequently observed, and studies investigating perception of musical structure and emotions have consistently failed to reveal deficits in autism. While the phenomenon of the savant syndrome is of considerable theoretical interest, it may have led to an under-consideration of the potential talents and skills of that vast majority of autistic individuals, who do not meet savant criteria. Data from empirical studies show that many autistic children possess musical potential that can and should be developed. Don't rush me. I'm playing as slowly as I can! http://www.stevenathanmusic.com/stevenathanmusic.com/HOME.html https://apple.co/2EGpYXK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Alfredson Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 So Darren, did you complete the course and do you now have perfect pitch? Keep it greazy! B3tles - Soul Jazz THEO - Prog Rock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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