Middle Age

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Some good advice here. I'll over my $.02. I have a theory as to why time seems to accelerate with age. It goes something like this... During infancy and early childhood, days seem to go on forever. This is because all of the sensations and experiences are new. That is, the first time we see a cat, for example, we wonder at every detail. This complex mental assimilation of our sensory experience seems to make time slow down. A child proceeses and absorbs the information of the outside world in an intense way and our mental capacities are fully engaged in that process - seemingly to slow time down. As we get older we experience forms in a economized, generic sense. The greyish-brown-shaggy-tabby- cat-with the strange limp- honery personality-hazel blue eyes-that is stealthily creeping- toward the-uneven crack in the wall, is viewed simply as "Cat." With age we begin to simplify the forms we perceive with our senses. The subleties that exist are lost. As a result of this disengagement, time seems to go faster. Hence, I see a correlation between thought process and perception of time. The moral of the story is that there is so much to marvel at in the world. It's important to see, smell, touch, and taste things for what they are, in all their sublety - not to quickly "generic-ize" our experiences as we get older. Keep interested, and engaged in the wonder all around by taking it in, reading, and exploring.

[Jeff Klopmeyer]

An article on CNN.com over the weekend spoke about the mislabeling of the term "adulthood". Their point (and I agree) was that adulthood is certainly not something that happens overnight when you turn 18. In contrast, they claim that adulthood is a [i]process[/i] (duh) that usually begins around 18 and ends around 26 for most folks. I did all the things I was supposed to do...went to college right out of high school, started living on my own at 17, got into a career job at 22, got married at 23. While I regret very little of what I've done, possibly my biggest mistake was not allowing myself enough time to mature and develop as a person before taking on all those weighty experiences. At 35, I don't consider myself as having reached middle age, though some would. I am certainly "old" to an 18-year-old, but my friends who are pushing 50 consider me a kid. In any case, I can't measure the level of success or failure of my life based on the expectations of others (or, worse, "society"). That, in and of itself, is probably the most mature thought I've been able to live by, and one that's brought me happiness, or at least some degree of contentment. Side note: on some days I feel like I'm 14, on others like I'm 73. I guess that's normal for people approaching "middle age". ;) - Jeff

[Super 8]

[quote]Originally posted by phaeton: [b]Ugh... [/b][/quote]Heh, heh, heh... Well Phaeton, I you can cross [i]'I feel alone and isolated'[/i] off your list. It seems that there are quite a few people who know what you are going through -maybe even better than you. I too can relate very well to how you feel. I'm not going to go into my life's story, but I can tell you this: Whether or not you believe your life is "shot", either way you are right. Tell ya what; move over here. We'll go bowling and start a band or something! And the next time some teeny-bopper tells you you're 'middle-aged', change her diaper and send her to bed! Hang in there bro! And don't forget to keep communicating! We all go through our tough times, and we all NEED each other. No man is an island! It would be my pleasure to be there for you if you need me. Take care.

[Ren.]

wow... I'm 23 and sometimes I wish I was 16... :D Anyway, I feel like a baby around you guys. But that's why I hang around here. Because I appreciate your experience, advice and knowledge -not only in audio/music topics, but in life-threads like this-. Any way... a couple of examples just to cheer Phaeton up... My grandpa back in Costa Rica just turned 81. He's got the health of a 50 year old. He's strong as a bull. Wakes up every morning and goes farming! My grandma is like 89... and still kickin'! I'm in school and one of my best friends here is 38. He's got a wife and two kids -a 5 year old boy and a 18 month old girl-. He'll be graduating next year at age 39. Also... Andy Summers was in his late 30s when The Police became huge! (I think he was 37 or something). One wise guy once told me... "The cool thing about life is to live it and see what happens". I encourage you to do that! :cool:

[I I mjrn]

[cue Judy Collins' "Who Knows Where the Time Goes?" (only oldsters will even know it :rolleyes: )] How's that [i]old[/i]cliche go?...make the best of what ya got!? I'm kidding of, course but what else can ya do? Consider the lives of those who never even had what you did/do. My motto is: [b]It could be worse![/b]

[Philip OKeefe]

I'm 41... that's definitely "middle age" in most people's minds. Who gives a crap? I don't. Yeah, it bothers me a bit sometimes, but all in all, considering some of the crud I've gone through, I consider it a victory that I've survived this long. ;) Life is pretty short, and I think the older you get the more you realize that. If you want to do something, then IMO you shouldn't let age get in your way. At 31 you're still a young man. My mother in law (now 82) decided she wanted to finish high school - back when she was in her late 50's. And she went and did it. She didn't need the diploma for anything - her husband was a successful contractor and she had a good life - it's just something SHE wanted to do, and she went and did it. Some people said "well, you'll be nearly 60 by the time you finish it in two years" but she did it anyway. And you know what? If she HADN'T done it, she STILL would have been nearly 60 in two years... see my point? You're going to get older. That's a fact. Our time on this earth is finite and in most cases, we have no idea of how much (or little) we're going to have. What you do with the time you're given is up to you. Make the most of it and follow your dreams and make the most of YOURSELF. Only 31? Sheesh, you're still a kid - go wipe the snot off your nose and get busy son! :p ;) :D Oh, one more thing: Don't keep looking in other people's mirrors. By that I mean "don't judge yourself by the standards of others". If you look in the mirror and view yourself as a failure, then you are. If you look in the mirror and are satisfied with the course of your life, then you're [i]not[/i] a failure. And if you don't like what you see, or where you're headed, then change it. You can do it... you just have to decide to do it, get some help if you need it and then DO IT. Best of luck,

[techristian]

Phaeton I have a question for you. Did YOU design the Debian Linux package?? It you did, then that is quite an accomplishment! Dan http://teachmedrums.com

[phaeton]

ACK!! I guess first thing i should establish is that i'm not on a ploy for sympathy. I would like to say i'm not throwing a childish tantrum, but that may not be entirely true. We all have stuff that churns inside of us, and then we've got to vent a little bit. But then, i guess sometimes i get stuck in my own little head, without anyone to talk to. It all just boils up like a volcano and i have little 'outbursts' such as inappropriately posting my state of mind in a music forum. Sorry. Next, i'd like to say i'm quite thankful that everyone took the time to post and offer input- helpful, encouraging input at that. deanmass says: [b]Most times, when I am feeling this stuff the most, at it's most amplified, I find that I am moving through life in patterns. Breawking the patterns help to shake me out of it. New input, new things, or the same things in a different sequence. Something to break the patterns. Break a pattern, find something to give you inspiration and move with it.[/b] I think i know what you mean by patterns. And i see this too. While i have a weak plan to get out of it, it will be a year or more and involve risk. I don't fear the risk, but i do fear the time. Kind of hard to explain. Tedster says: [b]Five years ago a horrible tragedy occurred in my life, and it still seems like a year ago. FIVE YEARS. That's how fast the time has gone.[/b] I don't know what horrible tragedy occured, but as i understand it, those sorts of things take time.... [i]years[/i]. And unfortunately, time is the only thing that heals. Tedster says: [b]Look at famous folks who look old and haggard, but women seem to find nonetheless sexy. Tommy Lee Jones comes to mind.[/b] I know this is defeatist, but i think a lot of people like certain movie stars due to their image. Not as a movie star, persay, but because they've enjoyed the characters that these people have played. Tommy Lee Jones often plays a strong, confident man. Same with Clint Eastwood. I think people associate the face and person with a `perfect' personality played by the actor. Tedster says: [b]And I'd bet there's someone out there who's had her eyes on you, and might be too shy to let you know it[/b] Heh. I don't know anyone. Literally. However, in the past the only thing i seem to be a magnet for are little kids, and women almost old enough to be my mom. And some of them try to hook me up with their early 20's daughters, most of which i could never get along with. Anifa says: [b]So do you consider yourself to be a desperate loser as well?[/b] Yes. At least a loser. Maybe it is good that i can see it too. I might have been desperate a few years ago, but i had a couple gf's in a row that [i]really[/i] broke me of that. Alex says: [b]He's got ALS, but damn, the guy still has his sense of humor, even though he can no longer play guitar[/b] You know i've been battling tendonitis and nerve damage i my arms and neck, right? Not that it compares with Jason, but it is nonetheless a killjoy. [b]I don't have a girlfriend, either, but again, I don't care. It'll happen in due time.[/b] This i go back and forth about. In one moment i want a gf, in others i don't. I can't make up my mind. Hell, i can't make up my mind about anything... Halljams says: [b]No TV.[/b] I hate TV. Its only purpose is for video games. Halljams says: [b]Ask your self how much time you spend a day, a week, a month, a year, wasting your life on stupid time wasting shit and on people who have nothing better to do than waste your time. [/b] It appears to be all of it. Some of it willingly. Though i do enjoy the time i spend here at musicplayer, for instance, i don't think the benefit/time_spent ratio is doing me much good. Techristian says: [b]You are not alone. You're not the only one that feels like this.[/b] This i know. But i don't understand how you guys seem to find ways to deal with it, but i just fall to pieces. In prehistoric times, guys like me would simply.. die. Thinning of the herd. [b]I believe that there must be an ultimate purpose for everything that I do or it is all a waste of time, including buying the house, playing the music, making the CD's and getting a better job. There must be an ULTIMATE GOAL for me or it is all a waste. [/b] I guess i don't really know what i want. I thought i did a few times, but it turned out that i had misled myself into thinking that is what i wanted. The ULTIMATE GOAL doesn't exist. At one time i thought it was music. Then i destroyed myself physically, and even though after six long years i can kinda sorta play, i guess i just don't have the heart and mind for music anymore. I feel disconnected with my musical self. I just don't feel it anymore. Techristian says: [b]So what I'm saying is that having all of these things don't always make people happy[/b] I think you wrote a song to this effect. More about material things instead of acheivements, though. Techristian says: [b][i]I like the idea of being married, i'm in love with the idea of being in love.[/i] THEN GO FOR IT.[/b] Like i said above, i go back and forth on this. When i was younger, i was shy around women. I'm not shy anymore, i'm just not interested. It's also not something i want to jump into. It took me almost 3 weeks to discover the last girl i was chasing was 27 and had lived on welfare all her life. She had no plans to change that. Techristian says: [b]I would strongly reccomend that you start spending some time with some members from your family, at this time, or hook up with a church group nearby. You shouldn't be staying alone at this time. You still have alot of life ahead of you.[/b] I have no family. Well, none within thousands of miles. I have gone to church a couple of times. Unfortunately, a lot of the people i met seemed as if they'd lead me down an even worse path. It has nothing to do with the church itself, just the church-goers. alcohol says: [b]I'm 54 and I got a mid life crisis.[/b] Sheesh.. i took you for about 16 all this time. I'm out of time for now, but i'll try to answer the rest of you tomorrow night. -jared

[techristian]

[b]Phaeton wrote It's also not something i want to jump into. It took me almost 3 weeks to discover the last girl i was chasing was 27 and had lived on welfare all her life. She had no plans to change that.[/b] My wife had no real income when I met her. I had met girls before, but this was the first time that I was willing to get involved FOR HER SAKE. This made all of the difference. I layed my selfish self aside. I also didn't expect her to go to work with kids running around. The most rewarding experiences I have had were when I helped others. (or tried to help others) I know that you are probably not be in my position. When I met my wife I had 8.5 years at a "big three" auto company and I could fully afford to support a wife and children. From what you have said, I gather that you may think that you need some assistance from a spouse. I assure you though, that if you find that special person, you WILL FIND the money that you need to support her, and not only her, but a few more running around near your ankles! I know you can. I know you will. And regarding my wife and I.....We just celebrated our 20th anniversary on September 10th ! I married a singer/musician and now she thinks that she is a figure skater! Oh well. Dan http://teachmedrums.com

[Chest Rockwell]

As I read the opening to this thread I started feeling a lot of empathy. I also really related to the feelings being expressed. But I've done a lot. And I still plan on doing a lot. I worry about the sound of 42. Then I look at my band. My guitarist is 26 and my drummer 33. I really appear to be cheating time considering the way I look at music and my ever evolving taste and open-mindedness.As for the sound of someone making a reference to me as middle-aged, it initaially would sound like complete hell. I could hwever stomach it ok comming in a clinical sense like that ER visit - at least consider that aspect [b]phaeton[/b] before frewaking too hard. I seem to be cheating the middle-aged stigma pretty well though. I have all my hair. I look about 10 years younger than my age. I have a great band together that played a college Halloween party this past 31st. So all in all. I'm trying to enjoy this even though I have that crappy day job too. PS check out my website [url=http://www.lereveband.com]www.lereveband.com[/url]

[Super 8]

Look Phaeton! Based upon your last post, you are pretty much saying [i]'I'm screwed and nothing any of you say will help me change that'.[/i] Here's the deal. Nobody here can give you anything that you aren't willing to receive. It's the defining factor. I know about this, because I have known people who are that way. Whatever you suggest to them won't work. Whatever help you can offer isn't enough or the right kind. Wherever you want to send them for help is the wrong place. It becomes clear that the reason they are in the pit they in isn't because they are stuck and can't get out. It's because they have crawled in there and refuse to leave. No amount of assistance makes a difference. You can take steps alone, or we can take steps together -either way works. But nobody can take steps for you -you MUST be present for it to work. This isn't about a job or career, or money, or health, or age, or music, or a girlfriend. This is about YOU. When you feel right about who you are, then all of those other things come into place when the time is right. I would also second Techristian's suggestion about getting involved in a group or church. Maybe you had a bad experience. So that means you don't try again? If you had a bad meal would that mean you'd stop eating food? If it's not your place, go somewhere else. I can speak from experience that my church has make a big impact on my life. Not just spiritually but also socially and musically. I've met some great people there that I would NOT have met otherwise who have really been good friends to me. I've also met some great musicians there as well. In fact, the best musicians I have EVER met all came from church. They have also allowed me to make MY impact on them. And that is always nice to know that something I did made or helped make a positive impact on another person or people. I've met people who seem to have everything going for them in life, and can be a little difficult to be around sometimes, but are always willing to lend a hand if I needed something without ever expecting anything in return. I've met people who LOOK perfect on the outside, and then you scratch the surface and find that it's all a facade and they are almost complete basket-cases. And so you talk to them and ask them how they are doing, and you help them if you can, and over time you start to see things improve for them. That feels pretty good. It's great to be able offer that when it's needed, and it's great to have it available to me when *I* need it too. I would also suggest you start an exercise program of some kind. It doesn't need to be anything major. Whatever you feel like doing is fine -but do something with regularity. It will help you feel better physically, mentally, emotionally. It will make a difference for you.

[Mark V]

Hell even this thread has just turned 40. :D I doubt if I could add anything that hasnt been already said except to say occasionally I think I'm a worthless twat at the begining of a slippery slope,I feel a lot better after reading some of the things in this thread.

[ElvisPresley]

The first 60 years are the hardest.

[Gulliver]

Phaeton... At least you have the guts to tell how you feel! I can't do even this... :( I turned 40 a week ago, btw. All I can say is that... I try my best to fight such thoughts. If I wouldn't do this - I would be dead already.

[MannyY]

Loved your post (and the responses) – cheer up kid it really isn’t all that bad. The responses you received are interesting. I’ll add my two cents – if you watch TV at all, lock in to the science channel, history channel and animal planet – it’s an amazing world we live in and you’re part of it. If you’re a musician (I assume you are – I came to this board looking for Sonar3 reviews), you can contribute to this amazing world in a way that many cannot. Play your music.

[Tedster]

Phaeton, I know you weren't looking for sympathy. You were looking for other perspectives on how other folks handle aging. And you've gotten some fine ones, I think! I was talking to my son about "unhappiness"...and the little things that piss people off, and I referred to most of them as "symptomatic unhappiness". They're not the root cause. I think you're doing well in uncovering the root cause of your unhappiness, rather than just saying "I hate my job" or "I'm too fat" or whatever the many things are that most people complain about. But, allow me to say this (as someone who's suffering in a similar way), [i]no one[/i] can make you happy except [i]you[/i]. Your friends could say and do millions of things to "make you happy", but if you didn't believe it, it would ultimately do no good. True happiness comes from within, and the only thing that will help you is by discovering what it is that will help you establish your self worth, and doing it. You say kids like you. Volunteer to become a big brother to some inner city kids, work at a Boys Club, something of the sort. Make a difference in someone's life. You'll see your self-worth reflected in the faces of the kids you help. Keep plugging...you've got years ahead of you!

[phaeton]

[b]Phaeton is 31? THIRTY-ONE?[/b] Actually, i'm [i][b]29[/i][/b]... Let's not push it :D Tedster the Salsa Sheppard says: [b] Phaeton, I know you weren't looking for sympathy. You were looking for other perspectives on how other folks handle aging. And you've gotten some fine ones, I think![/b] Yes. Definately some fine perspectives. And that is just it. I have a long history (in life) of getting myself into predicaments. The answer(s) will be right in front of me, but for the life of me i can't see it until someone else points it out for me. It's awful that i'm not autonomous, but i've *always* been like this. I can be extremely smart with some things, and completely stupid for all the stuff that most people find obvious and easy. It's like i'm distracted or something, i dunno. I guess occasionally (like right now) i just need some direction. I know i should be self-sufficient, and i want to be, but i'm not. Although, there are times lately where i just don't feel like my usual self, either. I get very easily confused, even about stuff that i used to understand very well. It feels like i've got giant hulking cold walls of concrete in my mind. No imagination, no creativity, no interests. Can't remember 10 minutes ago. Quite often i'll draw a blank on something i was going to write or say 10 seconds ago. Lee says: [b]What you're seeing as "being a loser" is just, IMO, a guy who has a lot of intelligence making sure he takes the time to think things through before making life changing commitments. That's smart, because it's obvious (at least to me) that you are a different sort of dude and the things that might satisfy many people will not satisfy you.[/b] Thanks for the kind words and benefit of the doubt, Lee :D While "thinking things through" is a good thing, i think maybe i think things through [i]too much[/i]. I try to plan things out too thoroughly when i probably (every now and again) should just jump in with reckless abandon. I haven't done that in a while. As far as being a 'different sort of dude'... i'll agree with that. I've always felt that a great deal of things in life just don't apply to me the same as they seem to for other people. For the most part i accept this and i'm ok with it. A simple example might be something like football. Nothing wrong with the game, lots of people like it for lots of reasons. I can't get into "team sports" though. They just don't hold my interest. But that's ok. It's the other things that are maybe a little more important in life that i'm concerned about. Techristian says: [b]Phaeton I have a question for you. Did YOU design the Debian Linux package?? It you did, then that is quite an accomplishment! [/b] No, I haven't developed any of the software in the Debian Linux distribution. However, something like that -is- a huge accomplishment, and i interact (almost daily) with the folks that do this sort of thing. They are amazing people, and i am humbled by their abilities and kindness. Much like here. Outta time!

[Ren.]

[quote]Originally posted by phaeton: [b][b]Phaeton is 31? THIRTY-ONE?[/b] Actually, i'm [i][b]29[/i][/b]... Let's not push it :D [/b][/quote]Somebody is about to get stoned... to death...with stones. :p

[Lee Flier]

[quote]Originally posted by phaeton: [b]It's awful that i'm not autonomous, but i've *always* been like this. I can be extremely smart with some things, and completely stupid for all the stuff that most people find obvious and easy. It's like i'm distracted or something, i dunno. I guess occasionally (like right now) i just need some direction. I know i should be self-sufficient, and i want to be, but i'm not.[/b][/quote]Uggghhh. More societal expectations, and really crappy ones at that. I've struggled with this one a lot, mainly because I've always been very autonomous in many ways, since I was a baby. And of course, modern society really rewards that. The more self sufficient you can be, it seems, the more cool people think you are. Hey, you're "low maintenance" and no one needs to take care of you or have any concern for you, how convenient for them! In my own midlife crisis I've seen that all fall apart for me, and rightly so. Humans are tribal by our very nature. We aren't wired to be completely autonomous except in short term situations. No matter how smart you are and how much you're capable of doing for yourself, there are some needs that can only be met by other people, and some things that can only be done for you by someone else even if they seem easy for you to do yourself. If those needs aren't being served we rebel against ourselves in all sorts of odd ways... depression, inability to do the simplest tasks, sometimes even physical illness. The whole "self sufficiency" thing, what a load of crap. Don't beat yourself up over it. [quote][b] Although, there are times lately where i just don't feel like my usual self, either. I get very easily confused, even about stuff that i used to understand very well. It feels like i've got giant hulking cold walls of concrete in my mind. No imagination, no creativity, no interests. Can't remember 10 minutes ago. Quite often i'll draw a blank on something i was going to write or say 10 seconds ago.[/b][/quote]Now that just sounds like full scale depression. You need help for that. I know we've talked about that before and you know that. If you can't afford counseling, you probably SHOULD try to find a church or some other group that will be supportive of you. Dealing with it alone just ain't working out, and it's not likely to, and there's no shame at all in that. You should thank yourself for so insistently sending yourself this message. [quote][b] While "thinking things through" is a good thing, i think maybe i think things through [i]too much[/i]. I try to plan things out too thoroughly when i probably (every now and again) should just jump in with reckless abandon. I haven't done that in a while.[/b][/quote]Well, when I say thinking things through, I don't mean "planning stuff." That presumes you already know what it is you're planning, and I think you should presume you don't even know that. I'm talking about thinking through who you ARE, what your nature is, as opposed to what you would DO with that information. That will probably become more obvious once you have a better grip on who you are and (most importantly) acknowledge that it's OK to be that, and not what other people want you to be. A lot of the "bad habits" you're in are probably just the result of having been beating yourself up or being ashamed to acknowledge certain things about yourself that are really fine if they're held up in the light and you're not trying to bury them and become something else. Trying a few things with reckless abandon is probably a good idea though, just to shake things up a little and get out of your routine. Plus it might present some opportunities or you might learn some things about yourself that you didn't know were there. But please don't keep going through this alone. Talk to us here on the forum, and try to find some people close by who understand the value of helping and supporting others, whether it's a church or a counselor or you volunteer at a charitable organization or whatever. It's really important that you get close to a different side of humanity than the ones who are centered on themselves and making lots of money and being "autonomous." It does exist, they just don't shout as loudly.

[lrossmusic]

[quote]Posted by Tedster: [b]True happiness comes from within, and the only thing that will help you is by discovering what it is that will help you establish your self worth, and doing it.[/b] [/quote]You can say that again!!! [quote][b]True happiness comes from within, and the only thing that will help you is by discovering what it is that will help you establish your self worth, and doing it.[/b] [/quote][i]One more once!!!![/i] [quote][b]True happiness comes from within, and the only thing that will help you is by discovering what it is that will help you establish your self worth, and doing it. [/b][/quote]:)

[ani]

29 is a very dangerous age... that's not a middle-aged crisis, it's his biological clock ticking. 29 years old was where I took a wrong turn in life that slammed me hard against the wall and then trompled me in the dirt for quite some time. I wanted children, but I wanted to do it the right way and through marriage. I had myself well established in life.... a beautiful home in an upper-middle class neighborhood that had only 7 years left in mortgage payments. I was in upper management at the Post Office and had money in the bank to do whatever I pleased. In 1987, when I was 27, my mother lost her life and my life went into a tailspin. I had been very career oriented and had pretty well shut men out of my life due to a brutally abusive first marriage and a few failed relationships thereafter. With my mother being the strength that backed my success, I was demobilized when she died. I felt a huge void in my life, and all of the material possessions that money could buy couldn't defeat the loneliness that I felt in losing someone I dearly loved. In essence, the vulnerability of losing my mother threw me into a relationship with a complete LOSER that started selling off my music equipment, and then he stalked me afterwards when I kicked him out. I tried dating a guy that seemed really nice after him and every time the guy would come over, the ex boyfriend would squeel tires, screech tires, and circle around in the ball park driveway directly across the street. The date knew something was up and when I told him that it was an ex, he was afraid that the idiot was going to stick his foot in the fender of his new car or bust a windshield out... needless to say, that interest didn't last very long. It was after that that I met my 2nd husband who confronted the situation with the ex-boyfriend head on. He offered me a security of feeling safe, and I married him without really taking the time to get to know him.... He turned out to be a con artist wearing silk threads. Decisions made in a trusting marriage turned out to be detrimental to the stability that I had established in life. He had always complained that he didn't feel to be a part of the marriage because everything was in "MY" name. Finally to appease him and show him that I was truly willing to be equals in marriage, I refinanced my home while placing his name on the title; also taking out money against the equity of my home to pay off a big portion of debt. I paid off his car, a bunch of credit cards, and some medical debt left over from the birth of my daughter. You can probably see where this is heading....... within 3 months of signing his name onto the title of my home acquired prior to marriage, he QUIT a job that was bringing home nearly as much as what I was making. We had added two children and were both driving newer vehicles.... we needed the extra income... he refused to work stating that he couldn't find employment suitable without a degree. Finally I agreed to allowing him to go back to school to get a degree in Electronic Engineering. He claimed he couldn't work and keep his grades up, so.............. I was pretty much a complete sap for the situation... I stepped down out of the management position that I held and took on a position to where I could make the overtime necessary to make the difference in the loss of his wages. Doing it for the sake of building a better life for our family....... YEAH... hind sight 20/20!!! Handing the SOB a degree was not nearly enough... the divorce and post divorce issues drug through the courts for 7 years. Hopefully I'm through with the court battles. Meanwhile, I have two children, 11 and 13, that I am pretty much raising by myself. The ex pays $397.00 a month for both children... that doesn't even pay the day care center expense; it's $60.00 a week PER CHILD and that's only before school tending. Take some advice from an older fool that's always learned things the hard way... Don't feel that you NEED to make drastic changes because of an age thing. Age has nothing to do with it... I had to start all over from scratch at 35 years old, then I was just barely beginning to see daylight again when I had a life threatening illness slam me back to below ground zero... to start all over again at age 38 in the hole... I will be 44 years old a week from today, and I have some major accomplishments that I never dreamed possible to achieve, but I'm still crawling to my feet. I don't have any expectations from life, because it is very capable of throwing you in to a whirlwind just when you think it's at it's best. I hate to sound pessimistic, but don't do anything in haste. Take a look at your surroundings and see if something traumatic, like the death of a loved one, has got you down. Recognize anything abnormal, take a deep breath, and let these emotions pass. Love is not something to go looking for... let it find you. When it does.... take your time to know it's real... if it's not real... let it go. Oh yeah, and remember that love takes two... if you spend too long reaching out for something that doesn't reach back in return... it's like trying to catch the wind. Know when to walk away even if it means separating yourself from other things you enjoy.

[Jeff Leites]

29! That isn't close to middle aged! I'll be 56 in January (still mentally 19 forever). The last 30 years are a blur to me. You still have plenty of tread left on your tires. Just don't waste the next 10 years. BTW, it doesn't matter if you kick off before you pay off your house, the idea is to control it, accumulate the equity as it appreciates.

[KenElevenShadows]

This whole thing, though - having kids, a mortgage, making lots of money, being "self-sufficient", whatever. They're societal things, as I mentioned before. Do not measure yourself by societal expectations. As long as it's positive and you are into it, what does it matter whether you own anything, have a brood of kids, whatever?? If you need therapy, go for it, but if that's not the problem, really, don't worry about it. Life is not a race. There is no deadline. You don't win a medal for adapting to societal pressures. Conformity can be a ball and chain. It just doesn't matter. Do what you do. There are many, many options available to you. Many do not take advantage of these because they are locked in to societal expectations, what they think they "ought" to be doing, what they think their parents want them to be doing, what they think is "right". None of that matters. I'm not suggesting that people be callous and not take others' feelings and opinions into consideration. What I am suggesting is that you don't measure yourself by those expectations.

[freddynl]

Well , there's not much I can add reading all the comments. (and by the way I am 52 and my life is almost a copy of Mark's - Gzsound apparantly :) so I won't go into details about that as this would be pretty boring) There's one thing I missed though which is an experience I had recently with our other guitarist who suffers a depression each autumn. It could be physically! Do you have this each Year when autumn starts??? Or is this the first time? Each autumn time of the year our other guitarist has this for a couple of weeks. I won't describe what happens during this weeks but it is awfull and it seems that a lot of people suffer this disease. If it is the first time it is unlikely that it is physically and I would suggest you start to do something you never did and seek for risks! Looking to your post/comments you never took any risk with anything! There's a nice song out there called "go your own way" which is basically what you should do! Whether it succeeds what you do or not is not of any importance, it is much worse if you are really old later and that you regret you did not do this or that while you had a chance. On your age you have all chances! And by the way for me personally I did not regret anything I did in the past, I have been a millionaire and been in the gutter, there's nothing I regret! Go for it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Fred

[Super 8]

[quote]Originally posted by MontieuX RevolutionS: [b] [quote]Originally posted by phaeton: [b][b]Phaeton is 31? THIRTY-ONE?[/b] Actually, i'm [i][b]29[/i][/b]... Let's not push it :D [/b][/quote]Somebody is about to get stoned... to death...with stones. :p [/b][/quote]Yes! Stoning with stones! Bring forth the stoneing stones that Phaeton may be punished, and punished severly for being a whiny upstart! I'll be 37 in about 4 months, and I wanna kick your ass.... :evil:

[techristian]

AND WHAT ABOUT ME? I'M ALMOST 20 YEARS OLDER THAN THAT PUNK ! GET ME THE BOULDERS! No seriously, Phaeton if you really needed to vent and weren't just pulling all of our legs, you can do it again anytime that you want. Dan http://musicinit.com/pvideos.html

[Super 8]

I have to say however, that I know how you feel, Phaeton. Much of what you are talking about, I can relate to very very well. The societal pressures are very present in my life. I'm a 'different kind of dude' too. Whenever I have tried to be anything other than who I am it has failed miserably. I think it is a blessing but it often feels like a curse. It's hard to reach out when you are depressed. But I have found that it is during those times when reaching out is the most difficult, that it is then that I need to be reaching out the most. I don't know if that is an issue for you, but it certainly has been an issue for me.

[RandyH]

All I can add to the many responses here is what I am doing in my own quest to make things work. I've found some good resources. The book "The Noonday Demon" is the best nonfiction title about depression I have ever found. It is not a pop psych title, it is very well written, and if you go through it you will know if you are depressed, how much, and have a pretty good idea of what you want to do to deal with it. You will also learn that your pit is someone else's puddle, bigtime. I've been watching 'Queer Eye for the Straight Guy', and if you haven't seen it, they do some key things for each neanderthal guy they help: clean and organize personal space decorate and design personal space to look cool get the subject a new hairstyle and new clothes teach grooming, social and cooking tips I'm taking some of this to heart and making changes for myself. I can't afford to do much at one time, so I do what I can each week. It's getting better as it goes along. Anyway, if you don't get the Bravo cable channel, take a look at [url=http://www.queereye.com,]www.queereye.com,[/url] set any homophobia aside for a few minutes, and look at the difference they make. Good luck, Randyh

[Confusionator]

Phaeton, I feel for you. My story may help: I was one hot-shot musician as a kid. I broke records winning awards in high school and then went to the most prestigious school to study with the most prestigious teacher of my instrument. Then I came to Los Angeles to set the world on fire and . . . . . . tanked, big-time, slowly. From age 23 to 30, I played crappy weddings, American Legions, and stupid sports bars. I did original projects that went nowhere. And my self esteem went down the toilet to where I too was depressed all the time. Oh yeah: and I screwed up my body through overpractice to where I had to take months off at a time. I don't think that people--even other musicians--give enough respect to the fact that careers in music are really, really hard. They're psychologically damaging. We endure more rejection in a year than, literally, most people do in a lifetime. Only a very lucky few do better. So, I was 30 and I realized that something had to change. I started taking computer classes at UCLA Extension--the adult division that anyone can enroll in. I was scared to go back to school, but do you know what? It was fantastic! The classes were so unlike college: they were tailored specifically for people in our situations to learn what we need in order to start working. Then, I got a job. I kept it for about three years before I got the next one. And I thought to myself, "I used to audition 20 times to get with a band that maybe gave me 80 total hours of employment over the course of 6 months. Now, from the one 'audition' I won for my job, I get 2,000 hours of work a year, year after year." I still feel that way: working a straight job is *incredibly* easier than trying to "make it" in music. And "making it" is a really important aspect of self-esteem. I can't believe that I'm so petty, but I *need* to feel at least somewhat successful. Feeling that way comes naturally with a regular job, but it's almost impossible to feel when you're busting your balls auditioning for shit gigs. A few years have passed since then. I'm still working in computers. I found a beautiful woman and got married when I was 35. I still play--only now on my terms, which I must say is all-in-all an improvement. I own a bunch of the toys I only dreamed about when I was still playing full time. (I'm sure you've heard the joke: "Do you own good instruments or are you a musician?") So, for what it's worth, don't consider a career change to be the end of the world. For me, it has been the only way I could preserve my sanity. Good luck to you. Good luck to all of us pursuing these treacherous paths!

[Ren.]

[quote]Originally posted by Super 8: [b] [quote]Originally posted by MontieuX RevolutionS: [b] [quote]Originally posted by phaeton: [b][b]Phaeton is 31? THIRTY-ONE?[/b] Actually, i'm [i][b]29[/i][/b]... Let's not push it :D [/b][/quote]Somebody is about to get stoned... to death...with stones. :p [/b][/quote]Yes! Stoning with stones! Bring forth the stoneing stones that Phaeton may be punished, and punished severly for being a whiny upstart! I'll be 37 in about 4 months, and I wanna kick your ass.... :evil: [/b][/quote]...and don't forget to bring the stones. :D