Lightening the load

[Aidan]

A couple of weeks ago, I had a wedding job where I had to move performance locations no less than four times (ceremony, drinks, meal, coffee). This finally convinced me that trying to lug around a 25kg piano and two powered speakers in such situations is not the brightest of ideas.

 

Yesterday, I finally bit the bullet and snapped up an ex-demo Nord Piano in a good deal. That's 7kg shaved off the weight, I can probably get away with just one speaker in most situations thanks to the excellent mono mode and the compact dimensions means getting into tight performance spaces is that bit easier.

 

I've uploaded the Grand Imperial (nice, though I think I prefer the Grand Lady D Steinway overall) and deleted all uprights (bar the Bosie) and the CP80 to make room.

 

Yes, there are compromises but they are less significant than I feared, particularly the action. Interestingly, the shop had an RD700NX set up beside the Nord. The action on that felt significantly lighter and less pianistic than my old GX and on keybed feel at least I would now put Yamaha's CP range ahead of Roland.

 

Both, of course, are much heavier - which is kind of where we came in...

 

 

[Morizzle]

Nice... did you sell your CP5?

[rappa29]

Every lb\kg helps! We're playing a festival next week where we'll probably have to park a few blocks away and walk our gear through crowded streets to the venue!

 

No question, my NE3 is making that trip and the XK1 stays in the trailer!

[Aidan]

Mo, not yet but imminent.

[ProfD]

Aidan, I think you're only a length or so behind brotha Tonysounds when it comes to going back and forth with Nord.

 

I'm curious to see what will happen in your sig whenever the Kronos arrives with a decent price tag in the UK.

 

Seriously mayne, do whatever it takes to lighten your load and enjoy the gear you have to carry and play.

[Dave Ferris]

Wow, you're going to give it a try Aidan ?

 

Good luck with it, a lot different then the CP5. Do you have 12"s ? I seem to remember you had the Eons. I think the 12"s will fare better then my 8"s for the NP.

[Aidan]

Prof, I hear ya. In a month's time, jpscoey and I are going to a mini music show in the north of the country where the Kronos is expected to be on demo. But I'm digging the Nord so far. Three things which have made a big difference to me since last time around (with the Stage):

 

* Full 88 notes. If I have learned only one lesson (and that's about it!) it's that I don't get on with less than full compass.

 

* String resonance in larger samples.

 

* The tweaked Fatar action on the NP88, which gives a lot more to dig into.

 

Dave, I have two EON10s, in fact, so have to see how they play out. Maybe later in the year I may be tempted into upgrading at last for QSC K10s.

 

Yeah, it's a lot different to the CP5 but I'm enjoying the slightly less "perfect" sound and particularly the clarity of the bass register, which on the Yamaha is a real bugbear for me. When I play more rocky stuff solo, I use the bass a lot to propel the tune along and the lack of "guts" in the CP5 disappointed me there.

[MoodyBluesKeys]

I have a pair of EON 10's - and a pair of QSC K10's. You will find the upgrade well worth it for sound quality. Don't have the NP, but have played my Electro 3 through both combinations.

 

My biggest problem with the EONs is that they get pushed a bit on volume and the internal heat limiter cuts the power way down so the volume does likewise - they are now in use for my living room home "piano" - but the overall sound of the K10's is better.

Even though the weight is similar, the shape of the K10's is easier to handle (there is both a side handle and a top handle).

 

[Adan]

Welcome to the club, Aiden. I'm really sold on my Nord Piano as a gigging tool, and the size and weight have a lot to do with it, as does mono mode.

 

I ordered the music stand and was sent a set of legs by mistake, which means I got them for a third of the real price. Takes longer to set up and break down, but I'm liking using them. The legs pack into a bag with all the odds and ends, so it ends up being one less item to carry.

[Dave Ferris]

I think for portability factor and the mono/one speaker scenario, the NP is tough to beat. The EPs are excellent of course but those are about the only areas where I felt the NP was worth keeping. I could never connect with the action and sound live of the APs.

 

If I have to play a DP, the CP5 seems like the least compromise at this point in time. Still, wouldn't lightening my load either.

[ADino]

25 kg is still a bit heavy, doesnt that convert to around 55lbs?

I recently picked up an 18lb m50/76 for gigs that I dont need the cp on or theres an accoustic..I used it last week on a few, good sound systems, so no K12 to carry either...I do hate the action quite a bit, but as far as the sounds and the weight, it was the easiest thing Ive done in ages....

No matter though, I really dig the CP, dont have any plans to get rid of that at all. I may even pull out the 2 tier stand for some gigs...gawd...I havent used 2 boards in years..

[JpScoey]

25 kg is still a bit heavy, doesnt that convert to around 55lbs?

 

Nord Piano = 18 kg (39.6 lbs)

 

 

I went with Aidan to the store where he tried it out...

 

It's a really nice 'board, & does exactly what it says on the tin !

[Aidan]

Yeah, ADino, my 25kg reference was to the CP5.

 

What Scoey didn't tell you was that through shameless persistence, he wangled a gratis set of guitar strings out of MY deal as well!

[JpScoey]

What Scoey didn't tell you was that through shameless persistence, he wangled a gratis set of guitar strings out of MY deal as well!

 

Guilty as charged ..... shameless persistence can be beneficial sometimes !

[ADino]

lol, any way u can I guess..of all the boards out there, I have the

least amount of experience w/Nord products...I remember touching 1 once and didnt like the action, so I never bothered, but sure seems to be a lot of people here who like them...Aidan, you are using the cp5 which I love, but I got the 50 due to the weight difference.. So I can see where your coming from on that aspect..

[mate stubb]

One thing I have learned about Yamahas - they are always at least 10 lbs heavier than they need to be.

[Adan]

The CP50 is a very nice board. I had it at the same time I had my NP, and it was a tough choice which one to sell. One thing that entered into it was that I figured it might be hard to get a decent return on the NP, it being more of a specialty niche board, and a very expensive one. The CP50 is also about 7 lbs heavier than the NP, and that's a difference you can feel. And of course I had opinions about how they sounded and felt, but truly, I could make do very easily with either one. I actually preferred the feel of the CP50 a little bit.

[ADino]

I took a chance when I bought the 50..tried it for 4 hours thru every speaker the store had, 2 trips..but coming from another product line, needing a piano elquiko, I decided to do it..for me its the best dp Ive found in years. Just the way it makes me feel on gigs..I cant judge an instrument in a store..I need it on gigs, especially kiken gigs where one notices every thing and the instrument is no longer on your mind..just the music. In that way the 50 works 4 me. Now tonite and most of next week Im doing shows where all I need is the m50/76..Korgs have great synth clav sounds 4 my needs, but man, the action ..its going to be a long week..the things I do for money..8)

[scales]

Same here. I chose the 50 over the NP. Loved both of them. The action on the CP worked better for me. 45lbs. was max for me. It's not hard transporting and I needed the extra sounds. The NP has a special vibe for sure. I'm very happy with the CP for the home and in live situations. I've been really surprised at the unexpected response I've received from listeners. Fellow band members would turn their heads and say "man that thing sounds good".

[Aidan]

OK, first quick gig report.

 

Which was actually a wedding fair. A tight corner by the reception desk, with a vocalist and upright bass player throw in too. Compactness and ease of manipulation on to stand - 10/10. Because of the tight space, I used a single EON10.

 

And I was frankly a bit disappointed with the sound quality. The only grand which sounded OK in this mono set-up was the Studio Grand 2 (Yamaha C7). Strangely, the Bosendorfer upright (Queen Piano) sounded next best. The Steinway Grand Lady D sounded like it had a blanket thrown over it and the Bosendorfer Grand Imperial was really boxy.

 

All of this might have made me rather depressed had I not heard these pianos in mono over my nearfield speakers in the studio. There, they sound really good despite the lack of stereo spread. So I know this quality is obtainable.

 

Therefore, I've come to the conclusion that the weak link in my set up now really is the EONs. There must be some active speakers out there with greater fidelity. The big question is how much I'll need to pay to obtain it!

 

Obviously the QSC K10 is up there on the list, but what else should I be looking at? Any thoughts about the RCF ART710As, for example?

 

Looks like a new trek around the country awaits me, with Nord Piano in tow, demoing powered speakers...

[MoodyBluesKeys]

Ref my earlier posting. I have five pair of powered speakers total: a pair of 10" Gemini - low price, honky resonance in the mid-bass range - should say HAD, my church now has them for vocal stage monitors, where they are doing well, they did not do well for keyboard.

 

Pair of EON 15G2 and pair of 10G2. Neither of these has the clarity of the EV or QSC - plus the odd shape makes them aggravating to move. The 15's are being used for my permanent setup at the church, the 10's are in use in the living room for the family keyboard. Interestingly, both pair sound better with a mixing board between them and either the E3 or PC3 - no idea why, but it is noticable.

 

Pair of EV SXA 100+ - these do sound really good, have enough power to do the job well. They were lower price (esp. used as I bought them) than the EV360's, but they do sound good. I used them for gigging all the time until I got the K10's. I like the sound of the 12's in them better than 10's, but like the weight and ease of movement of the K10's, which I presently use for most gigging. The EV's usually are my studio monitors, but I do still carry them out from time to time. Based on their sound, it would be worthwhile to check out EV's present offerings. BTW, they sound good both on the Electro 3 and the PC3.

 

Most of the time, I either carry one or both K10's. I have the Electro loaded with the Bosendorfer grand, which is not the best cutting through for band use, but I usually use the PC3's Blues piano (which is mono) or the Pro Piano for acoustic with the band.

 

Never heard the RCF's - they do get good reviews. I definitely think it would be worth the effort to carry the NP along when you audition powered speakers.

[Dave Ferris]

Any thoughts about the RCF ART710As, for example?

 

 

Haven't heard the 710 but the RCF rep said it goes stupid loud for a 10" but still retains the clarity.

 

You might want to look at the 400 series. They are brand new but I would think more available over there to demo. Same drivers and amp modules has the 700 series just less power. Still 400 watts. Price wise you could save money from the 700 series, still have the quality of sound along with even less weight.

 

If you can make do with a 1" driver you can go up to the 12" on the 412A which weighs only 14.4 kg/31.7 lbs.

 

The 410A is only 10.6 kg/23.3 lbs.

 

Even the 422A with the 2" horn is only 16.4 kg/36.1 lbs. Same weight has the EV SXA360s. Speaking of the 360s, they still are available and sound way better to me then the QSC K12s. More clear and high fidelity sounding. Still the RCFs will trump the EVs, way smoother on the horn.

 

I have heard the discontinued 522A and without question it was the best plastic box I've ever heard-- better then many 12" wood cabinets.

 

The new 722A is a bigger sounding box- more rounded in the low end and crisper in highs where the 522A focuses more on its natural sounding mids. This is straight from John Krupa of RCF.

 

I'm waiting for him to send the 722A, TT22A to a store for me to hear.

 

The TT series is their top of the line with totally different amp modules and drivers then the ART series. If the 722A sounds "good enough" as compared to the TT22A, I very well might just go for the lesser powered 422A and save a few pounds to boot.

 

I would put money on it that any of the aforementioned RCF models and even the EV SXA360 would make the NP sound like a totally different instrument over those EONs.

 

[Aidan]

Thanks, Dave - I was hoping you would enter the fray with some RCF info. I didn't realise the 400 series was the same quality as the 700, and for solo piano stuff, the 410A sounds like it would be plenty. I'll hit the trail in a month or so to try to demo them, and the QSCs, and maybe an EV box or two also.

[Dave Ferris]

Even if you can find a 310A, give that listen too. They are selling over here for $400 a cab. Different amps then the 400 & 700 series.

[bhodaway10]

I'm a huge EV fan and here is the new EV

 

http://www.electrovoice.com/product.php?id=1066

 

I heard they're selling for around $600 and includes two inputs and even one w/ an RCA jack.

[bhodaway10]

Dave, do any of the RCF speakers have more than one input or bass/treble controls kind of like the eon series?

[ADino]

OK, first quick gig report.

 

Which was actually a wedding fair. A tight corner by the reception desk, with a vocalist and upright bass player throw in too. Compactness and ease of manipulation on to stand - 10/10. Because of the tight space, I used a single EON10.

 

And I was frankly a bit disappointed with the sound quality. The only grand which sounded OK in this mono set-up was the Studio Grand 2 (Yamaha C7). Strangely, the Bosendorfer upright (Queen Piano) sounded next best. The Steinway Grand Lady D sounded like it had a blanket thrown over it and the Bosendorfer Grand Imperial was really boxy.

 

All of this might have made me rather depressed had I not heard these pianos in mono over my nearfield speakers in the studio. There, they sound really good despite the lack of stereo spread. So I know this quality is obtainable.

 

Therefore, I've come to the conclusion that the weak link in my set up now really is the EONs. There must be some active speakers out there with greater fidelity. The big question is how much I'll need to pay to obtain it!

 

Obviously the QSC K10 is up there on the list, but what else should I be looking at? Any thoughts about the RCF ART710As, for example?

 

Looks like a new trek around the country awaits me, with Nord Piano in tow, demoing powered speakers...

 

You may be right on the weak link..you used the Nord I gather and not the Yam? Id try the same cab w/the CP. Ive had rcf's on gigs and tried 2 in my studio, mabey its me, but I took them back. That was using my cp by the way..On the K's, Ive owned both the 10 and the 12..theyre great, only reason I kept the 12 was to give me a bit more headroom eq'ing the cp ac sounds. Good luck on whatever u decide.

[Dave Ferris]

Dave, do any of the RCF speakers have more than one input or bass/treble controls kind of like the eon series?

 

I believe both the new 700 & 400 series have a separate xlr/quarter inch input but no eq controls.

 

Fwiw, that new EV you mentioned is made in China as opposed to Germany or the US for the SXA360, ZX5A & ZX1A.

[Dave Ferris]

Here's a Namm vid from John Krupa talking about the 4 & 700 series

[video:youtube]