Starting out with VST instruments

[GREGHUX]

In a previous post I mentioned the possibility of buying a mint P200 as my P150 has had a beating (but still works nicely for gigs). I couldn't pass up the P200 which I got for $500 including Nova Forge road case (a reputable Aussie brand) and stand. So this will become my home studio controller (and the road case can be used with my P150).

Now I'd like to use this to trigger my first VST setup. From what I've gleaned on this website, what I need is:

A laptop (I'm due for a new one anyway)

Midi <-> USB interface

VST Host (I downloaded the Cantabile demo)

Piano VST Plugins (I'd like to try Ivory)

Other VST plugins (espcially Rhodes and Wurlitzer sounds)

Amplification and speakers (I assume some nice studio monitors would be the way to go)

So what can you recommend?

These are some of the other questions that spring to mind:

Is a fancy sound card required or do modern laptops have built-in sound quality that is adequate?

Will an inexpensive 'netbook' work given that current processors are pretty powerful?

What plugins are recommended?

Are there any free plugins?

What VST host is recommended?

What demos are easily downloaded / installed?

Sorry if I've got some of my terminologies wrong as this is new to me.

Cheers

 

 

[linwood]

Go nuts!

 

http://www.try-sound.com/

[GREGHUX]

Great start!

[VegasGT3]

I just got the NI Scarbee Vintage Keys and it awesome. Try that one for sure for Rhodes, Wurly and Clav.

[timwat]

I don't yet have it, but am told that if you get Omnisphere we won't see you again for a couple of months.

[midinut]

http://www.tweakheadz.com/ for starters. This should get you up to speed on most of the stuff you mentioned. Free VST's that you can try can be found at http://www.kvraudio.com/. Good luck and we'll see you back here after you've read all that, lol. And welcome to the forum...

[yannis D]

http://www.tweakheadz.com/ for starters. This should get you up to speed on most of the stuff you mentioned. Free VST's that you can try can be found at http://www.kvraudio.com/. Good luck and we'll see you back here after you've read all that, lol. And welcome to the forum...

 

+1

 

On the other hand if you go to the Apple/Logic route you're gonna solve many problems. There's a bunch of fine VSTs, including pianos, rhodes, organs, sample based synths and many others in the package. There's also Logic for recording and Mainstage, where you can play live (i do, and i'm happy) with all those fine instruments.

Sound interface: too many to chose from. I use an old Tascam, but i'm gonna buy a new Apogee duet.

 

[GREGHUX]

It would probably help if I mentioned a couple of things:

1. I'm not really into sequencing or composing.

2. I'm very familiar with Windows and PCs but not so with Macs (though I did own a Mac 'Classic' for a very short period!)

3. My main objectives is to have the benefits of a really nice controller (the P200) with the benefits of VST instruments in a home performance situation - not necessarily a 'studio'. My impression is that some VST instruments rival the quality of say the Nord Electros or even the latest Roland and Yamaha DPs (perhaps an interesting debate).

[Rocket Man 2]

Amplification and speakers (I assume some nice studio monitors would be the way to go)

So what can you recommend?

 

I tried some Tannoy reference monitors (with subwoofer), because I wanted a "flat" sound. Well, they sounded really good, but were too easy to "peg" (overpower), especially playing piano. I tried a number of JBL monitor enclosures--(piano was honky). I ended up getting a pair of QSC K12 powered speakers. They sounded the "flattest" of all the enclosures I tried, unless I pushed them really hard. Then they sounded "stressed". I also added a 15 band stereo graphic equalizer, but rarely engage it.

 

Good luck!

[GREGHUX]

Thanks Rocket Man. They could be a bit overpowering in my loungeroom! I already have a pair of JBL G2 Eons and they are great in a live situation. But they do have considerable hiss which would be very distracting in a home situation, apart from being complete overkill.

[Al Coda]

 

It would probably help if I mentioned a couple of things:

1. I'm not really into sequencing or composing.

2. I'm very familiar with Windows and PCs but not so with Macs (though I did own a Mac 'Classic' for a very short period!)

3. My main objectives is to have the benefits of a really nice controller (the P200) with the benefits of VST instruments in a home performance situation - not necessarily a 'studio'. My impression is that some VST instruments rival the quality of say the Nord Electros or even the latest Roland and Yamaha DPs (perhaps an interesting debate).

 

If you´re not familiar w/ Mac,- don´t buy a laptop unless you have the budget to buy a custom build like these from ADK Pro Audio, but that´s expensive.

 

If you prefer PC because you know how to assemble and configurate a computer for audio, maybe w/ help of the web,- build your custom rackmount PC.

Choose your OS 1st,- WinXP SP3 32Bit, Win7 32Bit or Win 7 64Bit.

You only need 64Bit if you need much RAM (more than 3-4GB).

Investigate in Intel Sandy Bridge processor w/ built in GPU, so you need no graphics card and have a lot of power compared to Intel i3/i5 processors.

 

If you go w/ Sandy Bridge and need no graphics card, the rackmount case can be as small as a 2HU hardware module, finding the right cooler for the processor and you´re able to go w/ a smaller PSU, all producing less heat.

 

Choose a small SL (single level) SSD for the system drive and a fast, reliable harddrive for the samples,- Western Digital Velocity Raptor, Western Digital Caviar Black w/ 32 or 64MB cache or Samsung F1 (in that order and according to your budget).

 

Now I'd like to use this to trigger my first VST setup. From what I've gleaned on this website, what I need is:

 

A laptop (I'm due for a new one anyway)

 

see above

 

Midi <-> USB interface

 

I assume, you mean a interface for both,- audio AND Midi.

If yes,- don´t go USB if possible.

Go PCIe for audio,- I recommend RME,- and it has MIDI too.

http://www.rme-audio.de/en_products_hdspe_aio.php

 

VST Host (I downloaded the Cantabile demo)

 

Cantabile is good, but also test Brainspawn Forte.

 

Piano VST Plugins (I'd like to try Ivory)

 

Acoustic piano is matter of taste,- choose what you like and loads fast.

 

Other VST plugins (espcially Rhodes and Wurlitzer sounds)

 

Native Instruments Komplete 7 includes (nearly) all you need.

All included in Komplete 7 will be 64Bit soon,- most is already.

If you have checked that out, decide what you need/want in addition and/or because you like it more,- Ivory p.ex..

 

A excellent sounding multi purpose synth is UHe Zebra 2.5.

Sonic Projects OPX Pro II is a excellent vintage synth emulation (but 32Bit only up to now).

For electromagnetic organ,- GSi VB3

Transistor organ,- Martinic ComboV (freeware)

 

Amplification and speakers (I assume some nice studio monitors would be the way to go)

So what can you recommend?

 

I´ve set up a separate studio monitor system for my VST rackmount, just to prevent blowing my main monitors by experimentation w/ VSTis.

Alesis Monitor One mk II are cheap, sound good enough for instruments and are loud enough for most rooms @home.

I buyed ´em used in good condition.

If you plan to gig w/ the VSTi solution,- consider In-Ear monitoring like MyMix or such.

http://www.mymixaudio.com/

 

These are some of the other questions that spring to mind:

Is a fancy sound card required or do modern laptops have built-in sound quality that is adequate?

 

Don´t go onboard audio, a quality ASIO soundcard/interface is much better.

If you decide for a laptop, I recommend RME Fireface UC or Babyface for USB, if USB is the only possible solution.

http://www.rme-audio.de/en_products_fireface_uc.php

http://www.rme-audio.de/en_products_babyface.php

 

Will an inexpensive 'netbook' work given that current processors are pretty powerful?

 

Netbooks will become faster, but up to now these are all Intel Atom dual core or AMD processors.

Is not only the CPU cycles which makes a good VSTi player,- it´s also the L2/L3 cache (depending on processor type) which is important for voice-count (polyphony).

Processors for netbooks have small cache (1 - 4MB)

I doubt a netbook is enough for usage of NI Komplete 7, Zebra 2.5 and Ivory p.ex..

 

What plugins are recommended?

 

Depends on budget and what you want to do.

Also,- you´re looking for VSTi recommendation and/or VST FX here ?

 

Are there any free plugins?

 

Yes, tons of and some are really good.

But there are also cheap but not free alternatives to the leading manufacturers products even NI Komplete 7 is hard to beat.

 

What VST host is recommended?

 

For PC, Brainspawn Forte and Cantabile (Performer) are good choices.

If you don´t need advanced features in Cantabile, your start is Cantabile lite for free.

If your budget is tight, you can also use Reaper as a live host, which is very CPU friendly, loads amazingly fast, offers impressive audio and MIDI routing and comes w/ lot´s of very usable FX plugins,- convolution reverb, delays and more included,- it costs $ 40.- actually but needs some learning (because is a full fledged DAW).

 

A.C.

 

[johnchop]

I'm a big fan of Applied Acoustic Systems (AAS) stuff.

 

I like Lounge Lizard 3 for Rhodes and Wurlis. I know the Scarbee stuff is great as well... I just like not having to mess with sample loading times (LL3 uses modeling).

 

There's a "session" version with less tweakability that is still fun. Demos are available.

 

Also, Pianoteq makes a "lite" version called PLAY. They also have a Rhodes, Wurli, and CP add-on that sounds quite nice. The pianos... well, I find them highly playable although not exactly "realistic".

 

BTW, for Hammond: GSi VB3. It rules.

 

+1 on Forte or Cantabile. I leaned towards Cantabile myself.

-John

[GREGHUX]

Al Coda thanks thats a lot of detail! Why do you suggest a SSD for the system drive? Yes I could build a PC but I like the convenience of a notebook. You said you assumed a midi interface for the midi AND audio. The latter has me confused. The midi connects my computer to the keyboard. The computer creates the audio - so I must be missing something? I don't intend to be doing any recording if that's what you are referring to (but would that not require a Midi interface but instead a USB connected ADC card). My budget is tight only because I'm 'experimenting' and its hard to justify a big outlay - currently all I want to do is perform with VST instruments - no recording or sequencing. Though I suppose that could change. If it does then I will expand.

[Al Coda]

Al Coda thanks thats a lot of detail! Why do you suggest a SSD for the system drive?

 

It´s the fastest and the system drive should be AFAP.

If you have a rackmount and haul it around, the flash drive has no moving parts and is less sensitive on transport, shocks etc., that´s minimizing risk.

For the system of a audio machine, you can use a small SLC SSD which is cheaper than a larger one you´d probably need for sample storage.

Large SLC SSDs are very expensive !

 

If you use the machine @home only, you´d be fine w/ a normal system drive too, maybe another smaller Velocity Raptor or even a Samsung F3 which is nearly as fast but has 16MB cache only (not important for system).

 

I´d recommend a sample SSD too for a mobile machine, but I´m not shure what a SSD does if you start creating your sample libraries and install, uninstall, delete and write a lot of documents, so I´d go for a normal drive 1st.

AFAIK, SSDs suffer from lots of delete and write processes most, especially the MLC (multi level cell) drives which are the cheap ones.

MLC SSDs are slower than regular harddrives in sustained write processes.

Means, these are also not good as a 2nd audio/recording drive.

SLC SSD are better, but I have no experience.

I know, w/ SSD, data will never be overwritten like on a standard harddrive, data has to be deleted before new data can be written and this is what slows the sustained write process down.

 

A WD Velocity Raptor is a very fast normal harddrive w/ 10.000rpm, and it is a very, very reliable one,- so it is well for streaming samples (or audio tracks).

The WD Caviar Black drives are 24/7 drives, I have ´em myself.

The Samsung F1 is a bit faster than a WD Caviar black but not a 24/7 drive (but I have one of these too for eSATA).

So, the idea is to get a balance between reliability, speed and price.

 

 

Yes I could build a PC but I like the convenience of a notebook. You said you assumed a midi interface for the midi AND audio. The latter has me confused. The midi connects my computer to the keyboard. The computer creates the audio - so I must be missing something? I don't intend to be doing any recording if that's what you are referring to (but would that not require a Midi interface but instead a USB connected ADC card).

 

You´ll need MIDI to input MIDI data coming from your master controllerkeyboard into your host to play the virtual instruments.

The audio isn´t created "by your computer",- that´s too simple.

It´s created by your virtual instruments, plugins and host algorhythms, a audio driver and the audio- card/ interface.

To get best latency values for live playing, a quality audio interface w/ stable ASIO drivers is a MUST on PC desktop and laptop computers.

This interface will be the most expensive component of your computer for audio/MIDI and in addition to the computer istself.

 

Your MIDI mastercontroller might be one fitted w/ USB and comes w/ drivers, but it could be also one w/ a standard MIDI output,- so in that case, the audio card should have a MIDI I/O with good drivers too.

I´m fine w/ RME since many, many years. Their drivers are excellent. That´s why I recommend RME.

The built quality and selection of electronic components is also very good w/ RME cards/interfaces.

You can find other brands too which would satisfy your demands, but I don´t know these the way I know RME.

 

There is also the rumour MIDI over USB2 is faster than standard 5-pin MIDI,- but this is a theory and not true in real world situations.

USB for MIDI is more worst in regards of jitter an latency,- always !

Read here,- USB

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musical_Instrument_Digital_Interface

 

So, if you have a PCI or PCIe audio card including a MIDI I/O,- you´ll get less MIDI jitter and MIDI latency than using USB.

This also rules for MIDI out of masterkeyboards, the 5-pin MIDI connection is the better one.

 

With a laptop, your problem is, you have no other choice than using USB for MIDI, except, you buy a PCIexpress32 card if the notebook offers this connection and connect a breakoutbox for audio/MIDI.

But also in this ideal case, all depends on the chipset driving the cardbus slot, and best is TI which you don´t find in todays laptops anymore.

That´s why ADK Pro Audio sells special for ´em manufactured laptops.

 

My budget is tight only because I'm 'experimenting' and its hard to justify a big outlay - currently all I want to do is perform with VST instruments - no recording or sequencing. Though I suppose that could change. If it does then I will expand.

 

The big mistake is the idea "only playing VSTis" doesn´t need top components and drivers.

The opposite is the case,- because it´s REALTIME !

 

For recording and sequencing, it´s much easier to deal w/ jitter and latency because there´s quantizing and if you playback already recorded tracks w/ larger buffers (=more latency) to get the track count and/ or count of plugins, you won´t notice that latency because you´re only listening to the playback of tracks.

 

Realtime playing requires the much faster machine.

 

My DAW machines are PCs, but I don´t own any PC notebook for audio/MIDI by several reasons.

 

If you are addicted to a notebook solution, you have to buy a customized one (expensive) or better go for a Macbook than experimenting w/ a stock PC notebook.

 

A.C.

[GREGHUX]

OK. I thought there would be a roadblock somewhere. I have seen a few Youtube videos of live performance using a notebook running Ivory using some VST host, and a CP300 or P200 as a controller. It had led me to think we may have reached a time where specialised high-end audio cards were not required.

I think for me my best approach will be to start with an inexpensive single-channel midi interface, cantabile lite, and some demo plugins (suggestions for piano?). From there I will find out for myself where the major shortfalls are and subsequently how to overcome them.

[mate stubb]

Al,

 

That RME card you recommended is $800, is that right?

[Al Coda]

Al,

 

That RME card you recommended is $800, is that right?

 

Now it depends on which you mean.

 

A PCie, a PCI or USB interface ? Or Firewire ?

 

A PCIe, you need, if you plan to use a micro ATX board and have no or only 1 PCI slot, this eventually not IRQ sharing free and are forced to use PCIe.

 

You´d be fine w/ the very good HDSP 9632 PCI card if you have a free PCI slot and separate IRQ available.

 

I have a PCI card too and it´s absolutely fast enough for audio/MIDI.

You´d find used HDSP 9632 in good condition for about $300 .-.

RME isn´t the cheapest, but also not on the most expensive side,- and if I look here, I only see the german prices anyway.

 

Have also in mind, w/ RME cards there comes not only Totalmix,

http://www.rme-audio.de/en_support_techinfo.php?page=content/support/en_support_techinfo_hdsp_totalmix_hardware

 

http://www.rme-audio.de/en_support_techinfo.php?page=content/support/en_support_techinfo_hdsp_totalmix_software

 

good for submixes and monitoring,- but also DigiCheck software.

 

It´s hi end analyzing stuff, lots of tools, meters and Bob Katz K-System metering included,- and it´s a multitrack WAV recorder too,- also a WAV playback machine if you want so.

http://www.rme-audio.de/en_support_techinfo.php?page=content/support/en_support_techinfo_digicheck

 

http://www.rme-audio.de/support_techinfo.php?page=content/support/en_support_techinfo_totalyser

 

Works standalone and simultaneously w/ your (DAW) host.

Global Record WAV recorder not mentioned in the description, but it´s there since version 4.53.

http://www.rme-audio.de/en_downloads.php?page=content/downloads/en_downloads_driver&subpage=content/downloads/en_downloads_digicheck

 

The HDSPe AIO card is the follow up card of the HDSP9632.

For a comparison:

http://www.rme-audio.de/en_products_hdspe_aio.php

http://www.rme-audio.de/en_products_hdsp_9632.php

 

Same drivers for both cards b.t.w., 32 and 64Bit

http://www.rme-audio.de/en_downloads.php?page=content/downloads/en_downloads_driver&subpage=content/downloads/en_downloads_driver_hdspe

 

A.C.

[mate stubb]

I understand about one word in ten when talking PC hardware, so you have to talk to me on that level...

 

I just clicked on the link you provided above, searched prices on google, and was seeing $799 everywhere.

 

Let me ask a more specific question: if I was building an ITX computer to run VB-3, maybe one or two others, mounted inside the organ controller cab - would one of these cards work, and if so which ones specifically?

[MonksDream]

OK. I thought there would be a roadblock somewhere. I have seen a few Youtube videos of live performance using a notebook running Ivory using some VST host, and a CP300 or P200 as a controller. It had led me to think we may have reached a time where specialised high-end audio cards were not required.

I think for me my best approach will be to start with an inexpensive single-channel midi interface, cantabile lite, and some demo plugins (suggestions for piano?). From there I will find out for myself where the major shortfalls are and subsequently how to overcome them.

GREGHUX - Al Coda's advice is comprehensive and excellent, however, in your case, it may be like swatting flies with a hammer. The minimum you need is a reasonably-powered laptop, a VST host, and some way of getting the MIDI info from the P200/P150 into your computer. You can use the internal sound card of the laptop as your sound output but a dedicated audio interface will sound better and, since just about every audio interface has MIDI ports, it solves your MIDI i/o issue too.

 

A basic audio interface (MOTU, Tascam, M-Audio etc.) will run ~$150US. If you just want to use the internal sound on your computer you can get a MIDI interface like the M-Audio Uno for something like $20. I suggest getting the audio interface because you'll need an audio interface for your recording software. Yes, you'll get recording software eventually because you'll want to record all those cool sounds you'll be making.

 

[GREGHUX]

Thanks MonksDream,

 

I do appreciate what Al Coda has said - I am technically minded so most of what he says is of interest.

 

But I think what you have suggested is just what I'm after. Sounds like I should go one step further than a simple midi interface - a couple of hundered bucks is not a lot for something that at this stage is really just a 'new toy'.

[GREGHUX]

OK then, here's a shortlist:

Tascam US144 MKII USB 2.0 Audio Interface (List $270 but currently available for $115)

Lexicon Lambda Desktop Recording Studio (US$120)

Tascam US-200 USB 2.0 Audio Interface (US$150)

Native Instruments Audio Kontrol 1 (US$199)

E-MU 0404 USB 2.0 Audio/MIDI Interface (US$200)

Fast Track Pro - 4 x 4 Mobile USB Audio/MIDI Interface with Preamps (US$200)

Focusrite Saffire 6 USB Audio (US$200)

[Al Coda]

Let me ask a more specific question: if I was building an ITX computer to run VB-3, maybe one or two others, mounted inside the organ controller cab - would one of these cards work, and if so which ones specifically?

 

They will work all.

My oldest RME Hammerfall card works too,- but needs a separate converter because it´s all ADAT I/O and SPDIF.

 

But,- if you want that only for VB3, which means you plan to play ONE VSTi in realtime only, cheaper solutions would do the trick too because it´s nothing more than a MIDI in, 2 audio channels out task.

 

When I´m talking about a rackmount computer solution for realtime playing,- I expect to play several synths and more simultaneously, doing splits and layers, using multichannel audio out instruments like Kontakt, which also works in MIDI multimode receiving MIDI on several channels and such.

 

A multi channel I/O ASIO card like these RMEs offer a lot more:

It´s a audio splitter to your monitors, FOH and stage monitoring and you´re able to create single outs for specific instruments if a converter is connected.

With Totalmix, you´re able to input monitor hardware instruments w/o using a hardware mixer and nearly latency free because the mixer runs on a FPGA.

The mixer doesn´t run on your CPU.

 

The OP also mentioned Cantabile as a host and not only me recommended testing Brainspawn Forte in addition.

Well, noone needs a commercial Cantabile version or Brainspawn Forte if there´s no demand to do complex stuff,- something like replacing one or more hardware racks,- you know.

 

The investment into a reliable and excellent sounding card is worth the money for such a purpose IMO, but playing 1 GSi VSTi only works on a a Vmachine or netbook too,- even w/ onboard audio and the free ASIO4All driver.

 

The question is always what "works" means.

It means, the VI gets MIDI and there´s a audio signal at the output,- not more.

It doesn´t tell anything about quality of work.

 

If someone is satisfied w/ a cheap solution being at it´s limits w/ the simplest tasks already and w/ crappy onboard sound,- fine.

Actually you can run VB3 in a free host like Savi-Host and on a cheap machine,- but will that be the case anymore if VB3 is updated/upgraded to version 2 and released ?

 

Mate,- you yourself, you invested a lot of money, time and work in your customized controller for VB3.

Possibly you want to add a piano type controller in addition one day to play great piano and electric piano models along w/ the VB3 and maybe a small assortment of synths.

 

In this case, I´d invest in a trusty solution and don´t look on the money too much because the audio/MIDI interface is the most important factor in such a solution.

A PCIe card is the investment for the future. We´ll see PCIe slots for a long time and you´ll never have to think about your card for many years again,- build a new machine, swap the card out of the old one, install drivers on the new one and go.

 

A mini ITX machine is able to run a s**tload of VI and FX w/ the right processor, quality RAM, 2 harddrives and a good PSU. The small formfactor of a ITX mobo just only cuts down connections to a minimum.

If you build something like this, it´s able to run a studio, even you don´t want to in 1st place and even it´s built into your customized controller.

 

A.C.

 

[Al Coda]

GREGHUX - Al Coda's advice is comprehensive and excellent, however, in your case, it may be like swatting flies with a hammer.

 

If OP talks about using Cantabile as a live host,- I expect he wants to do more than just playing a VSTi.

Cantabile and Brainspawn Forte are simulating hardware rack systems and are made to do complex stuff.

The selection of the host itself is swatting flies w/ a hammer already if he don´t want´s to do that.

 

The minimum you need is a reasonably-powered laptop, a VST host, and some way of getting the MIDI info from the P200/P150 into your computer. You can use the internal sound card of the laptop as your sound output but a dedicated audio interface will sound better and, since just about every audio interface has MIDI ports, it solves your MIDI i/o issue too.

 

That´s exactly the answer I expected.

A 150 bucks interface "has MIDI ports and audio outs".

Well, please tell me why there are companies in biz since decades selling $ 1.500.- interfaces and converters being more expensive if we don´t need that.

If that would be the case, no musician would buy expensive gear, even not me.

 

We´re nitpicking about sound quality of virtual pianos, correct behaviour of C/V, leslie sims, percussion, keyclick and leakage in Hammond sims in detail and so on, buying $ 4.000.- hardware instruments,- and then, it should sound good and give you the greatest feel by using a $150.- all purpose audio/MIDI interface and a $ ??? notebook.

 

What do you think is inside a interface selling for $150 in a shop ? What´s the margin for the manufacturer and the dealer ?

Subtract and you know what´s inside,- crap !

Carefully selected parts, japanese caps, quality opto couplers, great circuit and circuit board design, FPGA or DSP ?

What about the PSU in a external USB interface ?

Why have some converters walwarts and others come w/ internal PSUs ?

Is USB bus powered (500mV at max.) better than internal voltage supply ?

Isn´t it better to get a quality balanced analog out connection on XLR breakout cable than having -10db cheap cinch line connectors,- especially for live ?

What´s the resale value of a $150.- interface if you don´t like it after some time and/or experience the drawbacks ?

 

I always wonder why people posting here, asking for the best solution and later telling "I have no money".

 

And, it´s absolutely not true "any stock laptop" will work flawlessly w/ any USB audio/MIDI interface.

Not for recording and not for realtime playing.

 

A basic audio interface (MOTU, Tascam, M-Audio etc.) will run ~$150US. If you just want to use the internal sound on your computer you can get a MIDI interface like the M-Audio Uno for something like $20. I suggest getting the audio interface because you'll need an audio interface for your recording software. Yes, you'll get recording software eventually because you'll want to record all those cool sounds you'll be making.

 

O.k.,- USD 170.- for the interfaces.

Now I want to read your recommendation for a laptop.

Model and specs please, a vid of flawless installation and operation at lowest possible latency as well as WAV files showing excellent sound.

Please play block chords w/ percussive sounds,- 8 voices a chord and stacked VIs.

Add a diagram showing noisefloor and hum of onboard audio.

 

And please,- go into a shop, buy a preconfigurated PC laptop and try to get rid of the preconfigurated OS and replace it by an audio/MIDI optimized one.

 

Be happy w/ experimentation and buy all new every year.

 

Why do I read the same questions all the time in all the forums of host software manufacturers like:

"Where is the delay coming from ? You software has issues"

"Is your software shit and buggy ? I have clicks and pops always"

"Why is my roundtip latency 10ms and more w/ my beloved USB interface?"

"There´s HF interference audible w/ my card built into my machine"

"I recognize ground loops, what can I do ?"

 

I tell you what swatting flies w/ a hammer is:

Buying and building the fastest possible machine to compensate the drawbacks of the interfacing hardware and drivers.

 

I think, the Kronos thread shows best what the cheapest computer motherboard and CPU components can do if a OS is optimized and the audio/MIDI interface works great.

 

A.C.

 

[Al Coda]

OK then, here's a shortlist:

Tascam US144 MKII USB 2.0 Audio Interface (List $270 but currently available for $115)

Lexicon Lambda Desktop Recording Studio (US$120)

Tascam US-200 USB 2.0 Audio Interface (US$150)

Native Instruments Audio Kontrol 1 (US$199)

E-MU 0404 USB 2.0 Audio/MIDI Interface (US$200)

Fast Track Pro - 4 x 4 Mobile USB Audio/MIDI Interface with Preamps (US$200)

Focusrite Saffire 6 USB Audio (US$200)

 

You best go to all the user forums of these manufacturers and read about experiences of the users and the probs they have or don´t have and in which combination of other gear.

Then make a decision.

 

I myself, I own 3 different PC desktop machines for audi/MIDI work and I own older Macs and even Atari computers too.

I own different audio/MIDI cards from different manufacturers and a lot of different MIDI interfaces, USB, parallel port and serial port ones,- 2 of my audio PCI cards have integrated MIDI.

Now ask what´s best w/ MIDI.

I´m talking from experience and I have the comparison most users don´t have.

 

Anyone owning and using just only 1 USB interface isn´t able to give any recommendation because he doesn´t have any comparison, and most users are happy w/ what they buyed because they think they have buyed the best always.

That´s the psychological factor of the game.

 

A.C.

[MonksDream]

Al Coda - I did not intend my post to discount, discredit, or devalue your expertise, or anything you wrote. You gave the OP excellent and comprehensive advice that would help him build the best possible solution. However, from the OP's response I got the impression that he might also be interested in the minimum entry requirement to play a VSTi on a consumer-grade laptop.

 

Yes, better equipment means better sound, greater stability, and better performance. A $150 M-Audio audio interface will never perform as well as a decent Apogee or RME, but that's not the point. You do a wonderful job of showing the OP how high the ladder goes and the best way to climb it. My post only means to show him where the bottom rungs begin.

 

 

[MonksDream]

OK then, here's a shortlist:

Tascam US144 MKII USB 2.0 Audio Interface (List $270 but currently available for $115)

Lexicon Lambda Desktop Recording Studio (US$120)

Tascam US-200 USB 2.0 Audio Interface (US$150)

Native Instruments Audio Kontrol 1 (US$199)

E-MU 0404 USB 2.0 Audio/MIDI Interface (US$200)

Fast Track Pro - 4 x 4 Mobile USB Audio/MIDI Interface with Preamps (US$200)

Focusrite Saffire 6 USB Audio (US$200)

 

You best go to all the user forums of these manufacturers and read about experiences of the users and the probs they have or don´t have and in which combination of other gear.

Then make a decision.

Once again, excellent advice from Al. Of the ones you've listed above I'd lean toward the Focusrite. If' you're willing to spend more I'd suggest Firewire. The one I'm drooling over at the moment is the MOTU Ultralite Hybrid. Although their new MOTU Audio Express looks interesting too.

[GREGHUX]

Nice analogy Monksdream.

 

Al Coda yes I do value all your info. My day job involves high end data acquisition cards (only available in old-fashioned PCI, not PCIe) so I can relate to your posts.

 

I am only interested in playing 1 (or maybe 2) VSTs simultaneously in a live situation - initially at home; later MAYBE live performance. Currently not interested in sequencing or composition. I suggested Cantabile as a host because there is a 'lite' free version.

 

So perhaps we can get back to my previous question? What would be the pick of these devices?

 

Tascam US144 MKII USB 2.0 Audio Interface (List $270 but currently available for $115)

Lexicon Lambda Desktop Recording Studio (US$120)

Tascam US-200 USB 2.0 Audio Interface (US$150)

Native Instruments Audio Kontrol 1 (US$199)

E-MU 0404 USB 2.0 Audio/MIDI Interface (US$200)

Fast Track Pro - 4 x 4 Mobile USB Audio/MIDI Interface with Preamps (US$200)

Focusrite Saffire 6 USB Audio (US$200)

 

 

 

 

[GREGHUX]

Looks like we have done a simultanous post - thanks MonksDeam.

[RABid]

5 years ago firewire was the only smart choice. Now it is hard to find on a notebook and you never know if the built in firewire is compatible with the unit. Now, I'd go USB.

 

I've had no problems using my Audio Kontrol with either Windows or Mac. The Emu software interface drives me crazy. I finally removed my nice Emu card because of it even though I liked the sound. I also got a lot of use from a MOTU Ultralite.

[GREGHUX]

RABid

 

Do you play the VST instruments live or just for recording purposes? If live (or otherwise), is latency an issue for the Audio Kontrol? By live I mean triggering from depressing keys on a keyboard, not a stream of midi data from a computer sequencer, or an inbuilt keyboard sequencer.