Effect unit for "reverse effect"?

[Morizzle]

Hey guys,

 

I usually post on the Keyboard Corner but I thought you guys might be more knowledgeable for this:

I'm looking for an effect pedal that can put a reverse sound effect on what you're playing in real time or nearly real time. I've heard it on some Scofield tunes. In this video, the keyboard player uses it around the 2:11 mark:

 

[video:youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2n_5HjU3j_g

 

Any ideas? The forum search wasn't a big help as I'm not sure what the exact term for the effect is...

Thanks in advance!

[harvey]

wow, great tune! a lot of the newer delay pedals will provide a reverse delay. I have used a boss DD20 which has heaps of great delays including reverse. You can also tap the tempo and set the note subdivisions - crotchets, quavers etc etc. Lots of fun.

 

 

[pinkjimiphoton]

yah, but that isn't what you're hearing here...us guitar guys use reverse delays, but in that case it's a synthesizer trick using a reverse envelope...it sweeps the filters/modulation/attack or whatever you have it set to in reverse from your normal attack.

 

i can't comment on modern synths as to how to do it, but my junos had reverse envelope switches...it looked like a little mountain on top (a graphic depiction of the adsr of the synth) and the mirror on the bottom...that's definitely the sound you're hearing, reverse delays are more smoke and mirrors than that...they take the sampled delay, and output it backwards...you don't really get the same effect as the keyboard version i describe. it's more like an after effect than effecting the notes as they happen...in the reverse delay, you play the notes, then you hear them come out reversed after you play them....in the solo in this tune, that's not the sound.

 

mo, if you're into vsts, google up a juno clone like this one:

http://www.box.net/shared/ggyebvmznx

it's an in-process vst my freind is working on...you can drag it into savihost

http://www.hermannseib.com/english/savihost.htm

and then use the computer keyboard/touchpad/mouse to play the virtual synth. this does have the exact thing i describe above, so you can see what i mean...once ya play with it enough, you can sweep it in so it sounds backwards, and use modulation and filter sweeps to get the same effect you're asking about.

 

if you need asio drivers to be able to use the above combination, try this:

 

http://www.asio4all.com/

 

but....

if talking guitars, like harvey said, many modern delay pedals offer a reverse delay ...tc electronics, boss, etc..that can be quite effective.

 

one other way to get that effect is to use extreme compression and a very hard, fast noise gate cranked...set the compression to max sustain, with 0 attack, and just at unity gain..

 

then roll your guitar down to the point where the compressor sweeps open the gate when you play softly...it's a fine line, but with some reverb and delay, it's spooky cool. i used to do backwards stuff live like that, but it's so damn quiet that ya can't really use it too much...great for spacy quiet intros and outros..the old boss me5 was where i learned that trick, dunno how it'll work on other machines.

 

if ya added an envelope follower like a doctorQ in there, you could make the comp sweep open the auto wah...a really cool effect like an analog filter sweep..ahh...tricks of the trade!

 

gotta love 'em!

 

hope some of this info helps, frieden!

if ya play with it you can

[Caevan O'Shite]

Are you looking to get this sort of "reverse effect" on a keyboard, or a guitar (or what)?

[Morizzle]

Oh, I forgot to mention, I want to achieve this on a keyboard... most likely one without extensive synth programming capabilities, so I think I'll go with a delay pedal.

Thanks though, PJP, for typing that long response!

 

By the way, does anyone know by chance if the Boss Re20 is capable of doing the reverse delay? I was toying with the idea of getting one.

[pinkjimiphoton]

just try before you buy...you may find that the reverse delay is more of a pain in the arse than it's worth! it's not the same as just PLAYING... best of luck tho!

frieden!

[Caevan O'Shite]

(Kudos on citing such a cool, talented artist- Esperanza Spalding- with that video you posted! )

 

I don't believe that the Boss RE-20 will do that for you...

 

BUT HEY- apparently, the Boss DD-7 will do a "reverse delay" type effect; it also has stereo INPUTS as well as Outputs... Googling about I ran across several references to keyboard players using its reverse effects, and loving it.

 

EDIT:

 

just try before you buy...you may find that the reverse delay is more of a pain in the arse than it's worth! it's not the same as just PLAYING... best of luck tho!

frieden!

Agreed; and the more I listen to the example you cite in that video, the more I suspect that it was a patch on the keyboard, or even a sample or sequence triggered to play-back, and not an external effect applied to playing in real-time...

 

You might try to ask keyboardist Leo Genovese just what exactly he used to such great effect there in that performance of "Endangered Species" on Austin City Limits; I believe he also has a MySpace 'page, and is probably Facebookin' it, as well...

 

 

Good luck; and do us a favor- post back and tell us what you try and how it works for you!

 

...Here's to its being good news of your being deliriously happy with the reverse-effect! !tceffe-esrever eht htiw yppah ylsuoiriled gnieb ruoy fo swen doog gnieb sti ot s'ereH...

[pinkjimiphoton]

Good luck; and do us a favor- post back with what you find!

 

...Here's to its being good news of your being deliriously happy with the reverse-effect! !tceffe-esrever eht htiw yppah ylsuoiriled gnieb ruoy fo swen doog gnieb sti ot s'ereH...

 

[Caevan O'Shite]

"Backwards" guitar? Now, the real trouble arises when we are asked how to achieve upside-down guitar effects...

[pinkjimiphoton]

just watch hendrix, for that...lol

[Morizzle]

Will report back if I make a decision... although I'm at this painful point of recognition that I don't need more gear for now - it'd be more reasonable to concentrate on training the chops.

Yeah, I'm letting thoughts getting in the way of GAS...

By the way, I'm pretty sure the keyboard he's using is a Fender Rhodes, so it's no special patch on the keyboard. It might have been a fancy sample, though.

[pinkjimiphoton]

didn't sound like a rhodes to me, more like an emu...but i've been outta the loop with the keys thing for years...i mean, to me, a synth is something like a 2600, or a micromoog...

[Winston Psmith]

I have to ask, isn't there a way to tweak the ADSR envelope on the Nord Lead, for example? I know it's possible to program a long Attack time on most synths, for a Swell-type effect - maybe combining that with a slow filter sweep that triggers with each note attack?

 

Have to agree, Reverse Delay is a fun effect, but it probably won't give you what you want in this case. Do let us know what you come up with - I might want to try it on some of my synths.

 

Had to go back and listen again, and I'd bet there's some kind of filter muting part of the attack - I also noticed that right about 2:11, the keyboard player reaches to his right, for something we can't quite see, and then the camera angle shifts to the audience perspective.

[pinkjimiphoton]

+1 wp. you're on the money..

in this case, it really sounds like a reverse envelope with a filter sweep.

[Barry Cleveland]

The latest version of the EvenTide TimeFactor has a great backward delay preset. You need to play ahead of when you want the phrase to happen, but if you use tap-tempo to set the delay time to match, say, a bar or two, you can get the hang of it pretty quickly.

[pinkjimiphoton]

yes, but that's not the effect in this song barry...it's a reverse envelope, for sure...the guy is playing in real time, ya can't do that with a reverse delay.