MusicWorkz Posted March 5, 2011 Posted March 5, 2011 What would you call a Edim6/Eb chord (E-G-Bb-Db/Eb) in Eb? Yamaha (Motif XS7, Motif 6, TX81Z), Korg (R3, Triton-R), Roland (XP-30, D-50, Juno 6, P-330). Novation A Station, Arturia Analog Experience Factory 32
Theo Verelst Posted March 5, 2011 Posted March 5, 2011 I suppose the ha-ha (interesting question enoug anyhow) would be Ebdim6/D, in any self-respectable tabulation system... Mainly (without trying it out or giving it too much thought), I'f have to call it a wrong chord, in jazz the upper notes are usually not played on a bass note Eb that way in my taste. Probably you mean in the key of Eb, then it depends a bit on first wether it's a transgression chord, or a walking bass (so I'd need to know wether it's on or off beat for instance)in which case the whole chord is finely interpreted as a normal Eb7 with an added dimished-2 or (same feel) diminished 9 (added 9b), or on which inversion of those upper notes you're playing. Also on wether the bass note an octave lower or higher will especially change the interpretation of the G note in there (no pun intended): two octaves it's a nice rocky third, one octave under the chord and it will dominate a bit as a major third, and with the "bass" note right one half note above the lowest Eb, the "major seveth" feel will easily dominate the whole chord, and that would put the "normal" (single-lowered) seventh in the b10-feeling of another chord. Want more ? Theo
MusicWorkz Posted March 5, 2011 Author Posted March 5, 2011 Linwood, thank you . Must have been lack of sleep because the Db was throwing me off for some reason. I DO know the difference between Eb7 and Ebmaj7. Theo, not that much thought needed. This isn't jazz, just a chord I am charting out for a song I am writing... Yamaha (Motif XS7, Motif 6, TX81Z), Korg (R3, Triton-R), Roland (XP-30, D-50, Juno 6, P-330). Novation A Station, Arturia Analog Experience Factory 32
linwood Posted March 5, 2011 Posted March 5, 2011 All that stuff can be tricky. When you have those dim7 chords, you can use any root a half below any of those chord tones and get the same thing.
Theo Verelst Posted March 5, 2011 Posted March 5, 2011 ough, on a decent piano it would make lots of difference (without thinking). Or classic organ, for that matter.
MusicWorkz Posted March 5, 2011 Author Posted March 5, 2011 Linwood, I usually speed chart stuff out and make it as straight forward as possible because the voicings aren't always logical. Slashing the chords makes it easier to remember what the hell I was doing hence the Edim6/Eb. I was listening saying "I KNOW what this is..." Yamaha (Motif XS7, Motif 6, TX81Z), Korg (R3, Triton-R), Roland (XP-30, D-50, Juno 6, P-330). Novation A Station, Arturia Analog Experience Factory 32
linwood Posted March 5, 2011 Posted March 5, 2011 Me too. On that chord, it'd depend on where I wanted that E as to how I'd chart it. Usually I want a -7 between the Root and the b9, but if that Eb was a pedal tone and I wanted that E the next tone up from that Eb root and then there was another chord that was played over the Eb pedal....I'd put down with a slash.
kanker. Posted March 5, 2011 Posted March 5, 2011 Want more ?Please A ROMpler is just a polyphonic turntable.
JpScoey Posted March 5, 2011 Posted March 5, 2011 (E-G-Bb-Db/Eb) I know a fair bit about notation, but in no way pretend to be an expert, but surely the G natural (rather than G#) makes it Em7(dim6) ? - IDK... :idk John. some stuff on myspace Nord: StageEX-88, Electro2-73, Hammond: XK-1, Yamaha: XS7 Korg: M3-73 EXpanded, M50-88, X50, Roland: Juno D, Kurzweil: K2000vp.
kanker. Posted March 5, 2011 Posted March 5, 2011 (E-G-Bb-Db/Eb) I know a fair bit about notation, but in no way pretend to be an expert, but surely the G natural (rather than G#) makes it Em7(dim6) ? - IDK... :idk The Eb is in the bass. It's an Eb7 with an altered note in there, the b9 - Fb (the E you see above) Like linwood posted, a common way of voicing this would be Eb Db G Bb Fb (again, the E you see) In essence, it's an E (or G or Bb or Db) diminished over an Eb. Again, like linwood said, that same set of notes voiced over a C, A, or F# produces 7(b9) voicings. These are typical harmonically and melodically in everything from Bach to bebop to RnB and gospel to the classic organ solo in Karn Evil 9. A ROMpler is just a polyphonic turntable.
JpScoey Posted March 5, 2011 Posted March 5, 2011 Thanks Kevin, that's useful info They say you learn something new every day - & that's the one for today ! John. some stuff on myspace Nord: StageEX-88, Electro2-73, Hammond: XK-1, Yamaha: XS7 Korg: M3-73 EXpanded, M50-88, X50, Roland: Juno D, Kurzweil: K2000vp.
kanker. Posted March 5, 2011 Posted March 5, 2011 Thanks Kevin, that's useful info They say you learn something new every day - & that's the one for today ! Try playing it resolving to an Ab-7 or Abmaj7. Transpose it through all 12 keys too Also, using the Eb as an example, play G Bb Dd Fb over an Eb7 as a melody, 4 eighth notes and when you resolve to either Ab voicing, play an Eb as the melody note. I think you'll start to recognize hearing it in various places pretty quickly. A ROMpler is just a polyphonic turntable.
Dave E Posted March 5, 2011 Posted March 5, 2011 .... it's a transgression chord.... They come in handy when you want to give a spanking...
Theo Verelst Posted March 5, 2011 Posted March 5, 2011 Not sure about the intention, but more= A dim chord with lowered 9th (2d) bass isn't very logical. Normal harmony theory will let a "normal" dimished chord have a double lowered 7 mostly (which is actually an added 6th). A "normal" (mostly once lowered like the scale of major C would have a non-lowered 7th (being the B) in the scales' natural major or minor chord coinciding with the root note C) 7th is singly lowered (like from B to Bb for the dominant C chord C7). There are various jazzy voicings and trangression and embellishment chords possible by simply taking a number of coinciding notes between chords (like C7 to Edim will let only one key change: C to C#), but that almost always has strong harmonic implied motions, like that will sound like an transgression chord to the 2 (a D chord like the well known 2-5-1 could be made that way). A dim chord is a pretty strong chord. Mostly in jazz (unless you're good and want to tell so) chords are chosen to be nice and interestingly balanced between harmonic and followable VERSUS in-harmonic and exciting, not to have driving hymn type of lead function, but looser and maybe more frivolous, which isn't often coming from dim chords, though a min-57 chord *does* go nicely with various jazz ideas. if the chord is meant as a transgression (no pun intended) chord the harmonic jokes in most good jazz will let you play lowered added harmonics, but that doesn't seem to fit the problem. So it looks to me mostly like a slow bass run ending up in a strangely named chord with not-so-clear function to me. Theo
Bobadohshe Posted March 5, 2011 Posted March 5, 2011 http://cio-perspectives.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/Hurt-crying.jpg http://howtoconvertatheists.info/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/man-crying-praying.jpg Kawai C-60 Grand Piano : Hammond A-100 : Hammond SK2 : Yamaha CP4 : Yamaha Montage 7 : Moog Sub 37 My latest album: Funky organ, huge horn section https://bobbycressey.bandcamp.com/album/cali-native
kanker. Posted March 5, 2011 Posted March 5, 2011 [video:youtube] A ROMpler is just a polyphonic turntable.
linwood Posted March 5, 2011 Posted March 5, 2011 I'm gettin' confused. Now I don't know if I'm the harmonizer or the harmonizee.
zephonic Posted March 5, 2011 Posted March 5, 2011 Now I don't know if I'm the harmonizer or the harmonizee. LOL local: Korg Nautilus 61 AT | Yamaha MODX8 away: GigPerformer | 16" MBP M1 Max home: Kawai RX-2 | Korg D1 | Roland Fantom X7
JpScoey Posted March 5, 2011 Posted March 5, 2011 [video:youtube] That's a BRILLIANT find Kevin It's taken me about five mins to stop laughing so much to 'compose' myself enough to write this!... & NOBODY can argue with me about that <<< this is beer & tranquilizers - not lemonade & popcorn John. some stuff on myspace Nord: StageEX-88, Electro2-73, Hammond: XK-1, Yamaha: XS7 Korg: M3-73 EXpanded, M50-88, X50, Roland: Juno D, Kurzweil: K2000vp.
retrokeys Posted March 5, 2011 Posted March 5, 2011 "I'm so glad the children were here. Not only was that authentic frontier giberish" it sounded a bit like music theory : )
Mizu Posted March 5, 2011 Posted March 5, 2011 To bring this back on topic (hopeless romantic, I know), since diminished chords/scales are interesting beasts let me just put a pointer here for this booklet by Alan Pasqua, which is a very comprehensive treatment of the matter: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/13003692/DimCycl.jpg "You'll never be as good as you could have been, but you can always be better than you are." - MoKen
Dave Ferris Posted March 5, 2011 Posted March 5, 2011 To bring this back on topic (hopeless romantic, I know), since diminished chords/scales are interesting beasts let me just put a pointer here for this booklet by Alan Pasqua, which is a very comprehensive treatment of the matter: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/13003692/DimCycl.jpg It's a good book with some very cool, modern lines in it. I don't know if I would call it comprehensive-personally I find it a little short on the subject matter. But for what is it, like $15 ? Definitely worth having in your library. I've gotten some good mileage out of transposing some of APs lines in there. Recommended. The book I recommended here--the Jeff Gardner book has many two hand "piano specific" dim. patterns, voicings and lines. Could be hard to find though and it's not cheap. https://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/1763472/Re_A_few_suggestions_books_a_g#Post1763472 https://soundcloud.com/dave-ferris https://www.youtube.com/@daveferris2709 2005 NY Steinway D Yamaha AvantGrand N3X, CP88, P515
JpScoey Posted March 5, 2011 Posted March 5, 2011 Well, I suppose it is musical theory! As opposed to what..... your version of 'musical' gobbledygook ? John. some stuff on myspace Nord: StageEX-88, Electro2-73, Hammond: XK-1, Yamaha: XS7 Korg: M3-73 EXpanded, M50-88, X50, Roland: Juno D, Kurzweil: K2000vp.
Theo Verelst Posted March 5, 2011 Posted March 5, 2011 First and second year conservatory stuff, my boy (I leave it to you to suggest more refined difficulty level assesment, but I suggest strongly it's all basic enough and especially fundamental).
Mizu Posted March 5, 2011 Posted March 5, 2011 Dave - thanks for the link, I missed that thread earlier on. Lots of good info there. "You'll never be as good as you could have been, but you can always be better than you are." - MoKen
JpScoey Posted March 5, 2011 Posted March 5, 2011 First and second year conservatory stuff, my boy (I leave it to you to suggest more refined difficulty level assesment, but I suggest strongly it's all basic enough and especially fundamental). Well listen, my boy..... If this is the 2nd year conservatory level where you went to (which is apparently 'basic & fundamental' to you now), and you are obviously WAY above the intellectual level of most (if not all) of us here on KC, then some of us might, eventually, reach the the heights of the sublime virtuosity you displayed on your YouTube 'demo'. If only we could all aspire to this, the world would be a better place..... [video:youtube] John. some stuff on myspace Nord: StageEX-88, Electro2-73, Hammond: XK-1, Yamaha: XS7 Korg: M3-73 EXpanded, M50-88, X50, Roland: Juno D, Kurzweil: K2000vp.
JpScoey Posted March 5, 2011 Posted March 5, 2011 Theo shreds... Bah! - you beat me to it while I was pausing to eat my supper! John. some stuff on myspace Nord: StageEX-88, Electro2-73, Hammond: XK-1, Yamaha: XS7 Korg: M3-73 EXpanded, M50-88, X50, Roland: Juno D, Kurzweil: K2000vp.
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