The Future of Hammond Clones

[Outkaster]

I thought it would be interesting to see what peoples thoughts were on the future of clones. Not necessarily which is better but what will happen down the line? In the early 1990s clones were big news and as time has gone on I dont think they are that big of a deal. For the last 10 or so years there have been heated threads about this all over the web. One thing is for sure people are looking for that elusive sound. We are getting close and it seems to be nitpicking after awhile because so many guys want that sound they had when they were young. What do you think will happen? Do you think the hardware clones will improve? Have manufactures gone as far as they can? What features should they add?

[JMcS]

Probably just a continuation of fine tuning. As computer and DSP processors get more powerful and faster the authenticity of the sound will improve - probably beyond human hearing at some point. There will still be models that strive to provide the full Hammond experience with hardware as close to the original as possible. There will be models where some of the hardware authenticity will be traded for lighter weight and simpler controls. There will be software versions that people can control with whatever they want or have.

 

Adjustability will probably continue to increase as the computing power allows more and faster math. I look forward to that.

 

Some people will still complain that what the mfgr's should provide is a product that sounds just right out of the box and needs no adjustment to sound exactly like the one they remember hearing once back in the 60's/used to have/wished they had. The problem with that is that while one person may get what they want the rest of us would be stuck with something we think sounds like crap.

[mate stubb]

Software organs and dedicated organ controllers should be the wave of the future. It's just too powerful a model to fight, when a software organ can be updated many times easier than a hardware one.

[Skinny]

Nord should add drawbars. :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But seriously, they should.

[Joe P]

I've often wondered why Yamaha has not built a clonewheel. Am I overlooking something? You gotcher Korg, you gotcher Roland, you gotcher Nord, you gotcher Hammond et al......no Yamaha.

 

Am I missing something? :idk

[Musicale]

Did not Yamaha buy up one of these Roland or Korg or whoever?

 

One way to get into the action.

 

Regards,

[Outkaster]

Maybe they think that part of the market is covered? They make some great instruments that are roadworthy. It could not be any worse than the Roland stuff.

[Ken Beaumont]

In the year 3000

 

Scientist have uncovered a strange device called a ventrilator, it is unknown at this time if it is part of some sort of cloning device for someone called "Leslie" or a breathing apparatus.

[zaj58]

Well I think some of the clonewheels out now do a real good job of replicating the hammond tonewheel sound in it's raw state, it is the leslie effect that still leaves us yearning for more. I don't think it can ever be solved digitaly, because there will be no substitute for "moving air". I think the leslie rotating speaker cabinet or some other version of it will never be replaced. they will still have them 100 years from now....

[rappa29]

Well I think some of the clonewheels out now do a real good job of replicating the hammond tonewheel sound in it's raw state, it is the leslie effect that still leaves us yearning for more. I don't think it can ever be solved digitaly, because there will be no substitute for "moving air". I think the leslie rotating speaker cabinet or some other version of it will never be replaced. they will still have them 100 years from now....

 

Good point! A digital emulation of the Leslie effect, OD and general Leslie cabinet tone seems to be more out of reach than the raw B3 tone at this stage. Of course the Vent has closed the gap a little (up for debate), but still, obviously not the same as real, moving air.

 

 

 

[Outkaster]

I sold my Ventilator as it was not worth the extra money. It was also one more thing to add to the rig I changed my stance on it because I figure the next generation of clones may pay attention to the Leslie effect more.

[DanL]

How about a clone with direct outputs for a 7.1 surround system made up of QSC K10's. You make a circle of the K10's and then you have your full swirling leslie.

 

Seriously, I am also in the camp where the model of the organ itself is pretty close. It's the leslie that while vastly improved, is the one piece that is going to take a while to get closer to the real thing.

[Nu2Keys]

I think the rotary sounds are fine and will continue to improve. For me the ONE thing that clones just cannot do is give you the experience of sitting behind that big B3, C or A wooden console. A 22 Lb. Nord on an X (or Z) stand just doesn't give that feel. Maybe someone will work on that!

[Steve Force]

I think the rotary sounds are fine and will continue to improve. For me the ONE thing that clones just cannot do is give you the experience of sitting behind that big B3, C or A wooden console. A 22 Lb. Nord on an X (or Z) stand just doesn't give that feel. Maybe someone will work on that!

Nor does a Nord look like a B3...

 

Can you imagine Gregg Allman or Joey D sitting behind a Nord playing their B3 chops? They would look like one of those

dime-a-dozen Indie bands playing on Conan. (No offense to Indie bands intended.)

 

[Adan]

I wish they would all just stop. Every 2-3 years something new comes along that sounds alot better to our ears (even though the audience doesn't care) and we feel compelled to drop another 2G's on it. Did I mention that the audience doesn't care?

 

More seriously, we will hopefully see better all-in-one gigging tools. We've got the Nord Stage but we need something with drawbars, like the Roland VR, but better.

[ProfD]

IMO, clones will follow dedicated samplers in a few years. Especially as more musicians feel sampled and modelled organs in ROMplers are good enough for the average performance situation.

[vanderSchoot]

Although I am loving my Numa and Nord very much, I sometimes wonder if the Hammond sound itself can be improved.

Not to create a better, but different tone.Add new, non existing drawbars, different harmonics etc.

 

The Numa for instance is not able to trigger percussion on the ninth drawbar (like a real Hammond)

Nord offers the possibility to have percussion with the ninth drawbar activated and I am liking it.

 

Virtually everything could be modelled outside the traditional boundaries of a Hammond.

I know a dutch B3 player who added a synth drawbar to his B3.

Does anyone know if there are revolutionary ideas based on the traditional Hammond sound to create a new type of organ?

 

[DanL]

I think the rotary sounds are fine and will continue to improve. For me the ONE thing that clones just cannot do is give you the experience of sitting behind that big B3, C or A wooden console. A 22 Lb. Nord on an X (or Z) stand just doesn't give that feel. Maybe someone will work on that!

Nor does a Nord look like a B3...

 

Can you imagine Gregg Allman or Joey D sitting behind a Nord playing their B3 chops? They would look like one of those

dime-a-dozen Indie bands playing on Conan. (No offense to Indie bands intended.)

 

If Clavia paid Joey D enough to sit behind a C2, he would.

[Dana.]

I've often wondered why Yamaha has not built a clonewheel. Am I overlooking something? You gotcher Korg, you gotcher Roland, you gotcher Nord, you gotcher Hammond et al......no Yamaha.

 

Am I missing something? :idk

Considering Yamaha has yet to get the digital piano right...

[Outkaster]

No the audience doesn't care but we care that is why it is a heated topic. It seems like the sound that generates more threads than even a real Hammond Tonewheel does. The thing about playing a Hammond is it deserves respect onstage from the musicians to play it to the musicians that play with it. If I see someone with a console onstage that is regional or a national act I think to myself damn that guy is not fucking around If I see a clone it does not have the same effect because it does not have the presence a Hammond does.

 

 

 

[Steve Force]

I think the rotary sounds are fine and will continue to improve. For me the ONE thing that clones just cannot do is give you the experience of sitting behind that big B3, C or A wooden console. A 22 Lb. Nord on an X (or Z) stand just doesn't give that feel. Maybe someone will work on that!

Nor does a Nord look like a B3...

 

Can you imagine Gregg Allman or Joey D sitting behind a Nord playing their B3 chops? They would look like one of those

dime-a-dozen Indie bands playing on Conan. (No offense to Indie bands intended.)

 

If Clavia paid Joey D enough to sit behind a C2, he would.

 

Hmmm.bad choice of examples..

[Outkaster]

I've often wondered why Yamaha has not built a clonewheel. Am I overlooking something? You gotcher Korg, you gotcher Roland, you gotcher Nord, you gotcher Hammond et al......no Yamaha.

 

Am I missing something? :idk

Considering Yamaha has yet to get the digital piano right...

 

Doubt it they are closer than the other two.

[Dana.]

Doubt it they are closer than the other two.

[BernMeister]

Although I am loving my Numa and Nord very much, I sometimes wonder if the Hammond sound itself can be improved.

Not to create a better, but different tone.Add new, non existing drawbars, different harmonics etc...Does anyone know if there are revolutionary ideas based on the traditional Hammond sound to create a new type of organ?

If I'm not mistaken, Korg's present-day CX3 does this.

 

 

[Joe Muscara]

No the audience doesn't care but we care that is why it is a heated topic.

"We" may care, but there are a bunch of cats who don't. See that thread about Most keyboardists don't actually care about gear. There are also those cats who still say, "sorry fellas, still ain't got it yet."

 

That being said, as long as there are enough of "us" who do care, they'll still keep making new models to get us to buy them.

[Dana.]

I refuse to play any organ sound that isn't from a ROMpler.

[ProfD]

There are heavy-hitter KB players with access to a rider full of gear choosing to use ROMpler organ sounds instead of a real B3 or clone on high profile gigs.

 

MI is going to cater to popular demand moreso than purists. However, there will always be boutique companies to fill in the gap. Of course, that comes with a hefty price tag.

[Meisenhower]

I refuse to play any ROMpler while it's trying to sound like an organ.

 

Well OK then, I'll play if you pay me enough, I just won't like it.

 

How much does that ROMpler only gig pay?

 

 

Seriously, I've had to use my Motif ES6 on a couple of hits recently, since my my XK3 is doing duty elsewhere and my NE2 is in the shop. I wasn't digging it, at all. The connection just wasn't there for me. It got the job done and I did get compliments from some cats in the audience that it sounded good out front.

 

For me, a clonewheel is as far away from the real thing that I care to get. A big enough show or venue will still get one of my consoles on stage!

[reidmc]

I suggest clones are far enough along for us to be more focused on making them effective musical instruments rather than on how close they sound to a B3 + Leslie.

[Jim Alfredson]

I sold my Ventilator as it was not worth the extra money. It was also one more thing to add to the rig I changed my stance on it because I figure the next generation of clones may pay attention to the Leslie effect more.

 

I disagree. The one thing that the Ventilator nails that no other hardware simulator does (that I know of) is the overdrive. It sounds like a real 122 being pushed. Nothing else does that sound authentically.

 

I think the rotary sounds are fine and will continue to improve. For me the ONE thing that clones just cannot do is give you the experience of sitting behind that big B3, C or A wooden console. A 22 Lb. Nord on an X (or Z) stand just doesn't give that feel. Maybe someone will work on that!

 

The Hammond XK System does give you the feel of sitting behind a real console because that's what it is. Two manuals, full pedals, wood case, and heavy enough that it doesn't move when you're rocking it; unlike a Nord on an x-stand.

 

The Numa for instance is not able to trigger percussion on the ninth drawbar (like a real Hammond)

Nord offers the possibility to have percussion with the ninth drawbar activated and I am liking it.

 

You can do this with the XK3/c too. You can also change the way the percussion behaves (ie, make it velocity sensitive) which is an interesting effect. And with the MIDI capabilities of the XK3/x you can layer pretty much anything you want with it to create very non-traditional organ sounds.

 

Virtually everything could be modelled outside the traditional boundaries of a Hammond.

I know a dutch B3 player who added a synth drawbar to his B3.

Does anyone know if there are revolutionary ideas based on the traditional Hammond sound to create a new type of organ?

 

Well, Hammond added all sorts of stuff to drawbar based organs in the 70s. And of course there is the whole Electone series from Yamaha.

 

 

What I would like to see from clonewheel manufacturers, specifically Hammond-Suzuki, is to further refine the engine. Samples are old hat. They should be looking at modeling for the next generation. And they need to improve the percussion and chorus/vibrato. I like the ability Hammond provides to really tweak the instrument. They should give the user even more options, including different preamp models and different generator models (wax cap, mylar cap, etc). I would also like the reverb and other effects to be assignable to the stationary outputs of the 11pin Leslie format, so you can route them to their own stationary speakers. Or maybe even a dedicated stereo effects output on a TRS 1/4". And finally I'd like more than one MIDI output.