A New Challenge

[Rocky McDougall]

As a bass teacher, I have a new challenge. A 13 year old girl. I guess you would call her Gothic. She has black fingernails, black eye makeup, big black belts and wristbands with spikes, and she has an attitude. She has no desire to be a Musician, she wants to be a Death Metal Rock Star, and she want it TOMORROW ! Now, I am a 73 year old, fat, bald, graybeard, opinionated old fart. Her father, a very nice guy, wants to have this bond with his daughter on His day with her,(divorced). Maybe the ex-wife dresses like the daughter???? He brings her to the lesson and sits patiently in the waiting room, where can hear and see the lesson. He has thanked me for being patient and tolerant with her. I will continue my normal teaching method of introduction into music theory and bass lines based on blues structures. Her first comment to her Dad after the first lesson was, I dont think I like the same music as he does. Anyway, I will try to be very professional and treat her like any other student. I know God loves her and I should love her also. My wife thinks it is funny, I guess she is right. Do I need help?

Rocky

 

[Ross Brown]

She will outgrow it.... Not sure what else to tell you....

 

 

[_Sweet Willie_]

Congrats on the new student!

 

Rocky, you are right to teach her as you would any other student. That said, for any educator, it is important to adapt one's pedagogy from time to time to increase success. But, there's no reason why she wouldn't benefit from some blues-based building blocks. Maybe you could help her also learn a bassline or two from her favorite band's catalog? Network with other teachers in the area to identify kids her age into the same music who might want to play together?

 

A couple of other thoughts...

 

*It seems like you should be on-guard against your own prejudices against her based on her appearance and attitude. She's an adolescent finding her way like any other, and it's a bumpy road.

 

*From your post it sounds like the dad indicated that he has hooked his kid up with lessons to help with bonding. If he didn't, I'd offer another caution about jumping to conclusions about the reasons why parents, particularly divorced parents, do what they do.

 

*Love her and teach her 'cause it's the right thing to do, regardless of God's (gods'?) feelings on the matter. ;-}

 

Peace.

--s-uu

 

 

 

[plangentmusic]

My philosophy is to reach the student in their own language. If she learns a riff from a song she likes it's going to have more meaning to her than learning some blues riffs. And theory comes from the study of music -- any music.

[jcadmus]

She may stick with it. She may not.

 

But if you are patient and kind with her -- as you plan to be -- you may be surprised at what sticks with her over time.

 

And it may not be anything musical. It may be simply "when I was 13 and going through a rough time, my bass teacher was very kind to me."

[EddiePlaysBass]

Well ask her for a list of songs she likes, or a cd / MP3 flash drive. Listen without prejudice (as much as possible) and find common ground between her music and yours.

[b5pilot]

My philosophy is to reach the student in their own language. If she learns a riff from a song she likes it's going to have more meaning to her than learning some blues riffs. And theory comes from the study of music -- any music.

 

This. I would add along with that riff try to point out the blues riff, scale or classic piece that riff may be inspired from. It may peak her interest in expanding her point of reference.

[Richard W]

I'm enjoying the image of a 13-year-old goth sitting next to a balding "greybeard." Post a picture of that!

 

One of the things I've come to appreciate as I've learned the bass is that music is music and genres don't really mean anything. As far as learning about and listening to bass lines, there is challenge and reward to be found in everything from a Bach fugue to classic rock to Top-40 pop to hardcore death metal. The fact that she might not like the same music you do is immaterial--and I would point that out to her.

 

Bass Player magazine has interviewed or featured many metal bassists--in fact they did a cover story about a year ago devoted to all the variations of metal--and if I recall, many of them spoke quite knowledgeably about theory, practice, and some of the less glamorous parts of playing the bass. Maybe you could find that issue and share with your student that many of her heroes had to learn exactly what you're teaching.

 

Bottom line: music is a great unifier and a great way to bridge differences between people. I can't think of a better example than the two of you working together.

 

[Paul K]

My philosophy is to reach the student in their own language. If she learns a riff from a song she likes it's going to have more meaning to her than learning some blues riffs. And theory comes from the study of music -- any music.

 

Exactly. And since I'm willing to bet that "her" music ain't rocket surgery, it'll be easy to cop the groove and make her smile. And then, Ha! You've got her right in the palm of your hand.

 

If not, I'm sure The Bear Jew would recommend a taint smite.

[Bottom End]

13 year old goth, from broken home; glad you got an easy one

 

99% of kids around that age (I have two) want to know stuff, but don't want to admit they don't know it, and generally really don't understand that what appears easy is the result of practice or trial and error. I go through this all the time, but I love teaching them things they won't admit are useful to know.

 

I do agree that if you can find a line or two from her music, and show her that even "Gramps" can crank it out like Mastodon does, you will gain what's called "expert power" and her attention, great sensei. Relate that to a blues lick (which it probably originated from but detuned and now delivered at 200 BPM), so she sees that what you're teaching her does lead to where she wants to go, that could improve the situation.

 

It may be simply "when I was 13 and going through a rough time, my bass teacher was very kind to me."

...and this

[5 string Mike]

Hey Rocky,

 

I agree to try hard to look past the goth thing. Attitude? it's kind of common among 13 year old girls.

 

If you want to teach her theory, help her relate it to stuff she likes. It's kind of like algebra- really cool stuff, but if she isn't interested in learning it, you have to be a little creative to make it click. It might be hard to stomach some death metal screamo stuff if it's not your thing, but try to pick out the things you can teach her.

 

As far as 'death metal rock star', how many of us as kids started out with a goal like that but it morphed into a true love for the instrument? Honestly not many 13 year olds of any social group have asked to learn about the circle of fifths, inversions and walking lines on the first day, have they?

 

And as far as God loving her and you should too, absolutely. There are certainly a lot worse things a 13 year old Goth girl could be getting into than learning to play bass. Besides, maybe you can expose her to some old-school stuff that rocks.

 

As far as your wife laughing at you, not much to say about that

 

Good luck

[Chad Thorne]

Well ask her for a list of songs she likes, or a cd / MP3 flash drive. Listen without prejudice (as much as possible) and find common ground between her music and yours.

This.

 

Plus - you're older than I, Rocky, you know this - the whole Goth thing is just her trying to piss off her parents. Ignore it.

 

Also, try to ascertain if SHE wants bass lessons or this is just Dad's attempt to bond with her. If you discover it's the latter, well, you know what to do.

[_Sweet Willie_]

...from broken home...

 

Or, perhaps, two homes that are each less broken than the prior single household.

 

Also, try to ascertain if SHE wants bass lessons or this is just Dad's attempt to bond with her. If you discover it's the latter, well, you know what to do.

 

Um, I'm assuming that in either case, former or latter, if she's showing up and dad's paying for the lessons, that Rocky's job is to do his best to try to teach her.

 

Peace.

--SW

[Chad Thorne]

Also, try to ascertain if SHE wants bass lessons or this is just Dad's attempt to bond with her. If you discover it's the latter, well, you know what to do.

 

Um, I'm assuming that in either case, former or latter, if she's showing up and dad's paying for the lessons, that Rocky's job is to do his best to try to teach her.

Well, sure. But if it becomes apparent to Rocky that she really doesn't want lessons and isn't going to participate, it seems to me the ethical thing to do is to have a talk with Dad and say, "I don't feel good taking your money if she's not using what you're paying for." Then, if Dad wants to keep dragging her to lessons, then, sure, take his money.

[slowfinger]

... 13 year old girl ... She has no desire to be a Musician, she wants to be a Death Metal Rock Star, and she want it TOMORROW !

I'd be inclined to suggest that you take a shortcut to Death Metal Rock Star. To start with teach her enough technique to play the riffs she likes (or even just 8s on D and low G), put some dirtanddistortion on the amp she uses in your studio and see how it goes from there. You should try to find something that 'turns on the lights' bass-wise.

[bassin bill]

She will get bored and quit or leave you. you need to have a little give and take. i recommend she bring in a song that you can learn and teach her in her next lesson. this way you can slowly bring in any technique or theory that you can while keeping her interested.

she wants to learn how to play songs, not theory. why not teach her what she wants and give her a little pleasure?

i have a friend who has been taking years of lessons and can still barely play a song yet he knows a bunch of scales. i believe she will end up sharing his frustration if you continue on the same path. theory can come later. it did for me...

[Imogene]

This is a good thread, and I agree with bassin' bill. I think she'll ultimately bail but I understand Rocky's frustration. If I had been interested in Rocky's approach to teaching when I was just starting out, I'd be dangerous today! But I wasn't and now I'm pushing 50 and will have to settle for "marginally competent." I eat theory alive today and agree that a background in jazz/blues makes you a more seasoned player overall. Lots of young people don't think the same. But looking back, I was an idiot when I thought that I knew it all. See how it works?

[jbone almighty]

great thread. IMHO i don't think a spoonful of what she want will hurt at all. especially when you explain how theory and technique apply to what she listens to. isn't "how do i do that?" how we all got into bass playing? even if she bails now she may come back to it later b/c of earlier postive experience.

[jeremy c]

I have students like that sometimes.

 

First of all, it may be the first time that an adult actually treats them as a real person on one-to-one basis, a real person who shares a love of the same instrument and who has successfully made a life out of music.

 

I'm pretty clear that I am not going to teach them the songs they like, but I am going to teach them things which will make it easier for them to learn the songs themselves. They will also learn things which will enable them to communicate with other musicians. I will listen to snippets of music that they like and I will have them listen to snippets of music that I like.

 

Most kids of this type think that they have their own music which no one else likes and which is not played on the radio. They are a little surprised to learn that I also like music which no one else likes and which is not played on the radio. Obviously, it's not the same music, but it gets a message across.

 

I also show them things that every bass player will play eventually. If they want to be a complete creative individualist, they better learn what these things are so they can avoid playing them and so they won't think that they invented them. And maybe they will find a way to use these little ideas in a new way, or maybe not.

 

They will learn how to finger things in a variety of ways, they will learn efficient pick and finger techniques, and they will learn how to maintain their instrument. They will learn the names of notes and where they are on the neck.

 

I'm sure that I looked very strange to a lot of my professors when I was a college student, but the few who didn't care became my mentors.

 

One of those punk kids from a broken home (who dropped out of school with the plan of just playing bass) returned to me after several years and now tells me he wants to be a music teacher and wants to know how to prepare for that.

 

Another one did not kill herself and I see her working in a shop in town and she is no longer depressed all the time. (in high school I actually called up her counselor and asked the someone keep an eye out for her). She was convinced that her mother hated her and I pointed out that her mother had bought her an instrument and was paying for weekly lessons.

 

You'll do fine, Rocky, I'm sure you will.

[Rocky McDougall]

Thank you Jeremy and all the others who have shared their knowledge. This is probably more about me adapting to the situation then my young student. It has become my personal challenge to give her a love for music and a hunger to learn the basis and structure of that music. I usually have students playing basslines to their favorite music by the second or third lesson. Also, they have had a glimpse into music theory that usually makes them want to learn more. I also have a 12 year old boy who has been a perfect student for the last 3 months. He has an amazing talent and is playing basslines that most players with 5 years of playing experience would be very envious of. Almost all of my current students are young and new to bass. Teaching these young kids has brought me a great amount of pleasure and elevated my teaching talents. I am blessed.

Rocky

[calypsocoral]

Hi Rocky,

 

I'm a metal guy myself. If you want to get her into some of the bluesy stuff, bring in some old Black Sabbath records-- Black Sabbath started out as a Blues band, after all. They just incorporate the diminished 5th a lot more...

 

Of course, I'm also into older metal (from Sabbath through "Master of Puppets" Metallica, mostly), but it might help bridge the gap a little bit...

[Rocky McDougall]

Thank you, I will listen to some Sabbath and see if I can work it in.

Rocky

[Eric VB]

she wants to be a Death Metal Rock Star, and she want it TOMORROW !

"We want the world and we want it now!"

--The Doors, "When the Music's Over", 1967

 

Devil's advocate: Shouldn't she be taking lessons from a "School of Rock" studio where she will be placed in a band of her peers, perform publicly a few times a year and still get individual lessons?

[Rocky McDougall]

Devil's advocate: Shouldn't she be taking lessons from a "School of Rock" studio where she will be placed in a band of her peers, perform publicly a few times a year and still get individual lessons?

 

I don't know if we have a studio like that here. Do they teach Death Metal Basslines?

[Seamy ALB]

Rocky, I really do think you have a great opportunity to get someone onto the best method of venting life's frustrations ie playing music. I have to say I commend you for taking the challenge I think people who have an inclination to play music always have more in common than not. As for the Death Metal front I would try the old Rock N Roll evolution of rebellion method. Right from the start the music has always been about finding an edge and pushing boundary's. The mechanics of this has always been rooted in developing good musical chops and believe it or not you won't play Death Metal without well honed skills.

 

Check out guys like Steve DiGiorgio

 

Alex Webster

 

Good Luck Rocky!!