Five things any pro board should have...

[Sundown]

These five features should be included on any $2,000+ keyboard, and I would argue that they belong on any $1,000+ keyboard. Below $1,000 and some of them may be debatable...

 

Velocity Curves

 

I don't care if the action is light as a feather or heavy as lead, it should be adjustable in software. My W/S has 8 curves and my D-20 has none. Though they are both synth actions, I can adjust the W/S to be much more responsive (I use setting 6). The D-20 might as well be an organ. Some players are heavy handed and others are light, and if you're spending over a grand, the action should be adjustable through software.

 

A Foot Switch Polarity Setting

 

No one wants to goof around with special or brand-specific pedals. A simple software polarity setting will solve it for everyone.

 

Balanced Outputs

 

Do they really add that much to the cost of a board? In a live setting you might need some long runs and you shouldn't have to reach for a DI. Kudos to Kurzweil for being a long-time leader on this front.

 

Channel Aftertouch with Aftertouch Curves

 

Polyphonic aftertouch may be out of reach, but does it really add a lot of cost to implement channel aftertouch? Many DP's don't offer it (even those without escapement simulations), and plenty of sub-$1,000 MIDI controllers don't either. I know a piano sound won't use it, but if I do get an 88-key axe, I'll use those keys to drive modules and plug-ins that will respond to it.

 

And if a board has channel aftertouch, it should have response curves in software.

 

And last but not least...

 

Pitch and Mod Wheels (or a Pitch/Mod Paddle)

 

We can argue about which setup is better, but all boards should have some implementation in an accessible area. The Roland V-piano is a great example. It's a digital piano, but if it has great keys, you're likely to use it as a controller. And for five large, it should have a paddle or a set of wheels.

 

 

[kanker.]

Channel Aftertouch with Aftertouch Curves

 

Polyphonic aftertouch may be out of reach, but does it really add a lot of cost to implement channel aftertouch? Many DP's don't offer it (even those without escapement simulations), and plenty of sub-$1,000 MIDI controllers don't either. I know a piano sound won't use it, but if I do get an 88-key axe, I'll use those keys to drive modules and plug-ins that will respond to it.

No thanks. Aftertouch really screws up my hands. Severely. You can take your 88 with aftertouch, but I'll take mine without it...

[Sundown]

 

No kidding?

 

Do you feel the same about synth actions with aftertouch?

[kanker.]

I don't really find myself playing synth action keyboards much, so I can't give a good answer. When I do, I have no use for aftertouch - I'd much rather use other continuous controllers.

 

The spongy bottom of an 88 with aftertouch inflames my tendonitis unlike anything else. Give me the most pianistic action possible, sans aftertouch, for piano and EP playing.

[Nillerbabs]

You forgot cup holder.

[Josh Paxton]

I'll add:

 

Single-touch octave shift buttons

Screen contrast knob (assuming there's a screen, of course)

[Bill H.]

Aftertouch does seem to muck up the action on digital pianos, but I like it on synths if it's done right. It's wonderfully expressive on my V-Synth. On my Motif it kicks in too fast and there's no adjustment for that. If you strike a key hard initially on my Motif ES, aftertouch kicks in practically at the same time, and I don't want it then!

 

My old D-110 module was very similar to your D-20 keyboard, and it had adjustable velocity for each tone at the patch level. Does the D-20 not do this?

 

Since I only use Roland and Yamaha gear, footswitch polarity wouldn't be a priority of mine either, but I think it's in practically everything anyway.

 

I guess we all have our lists of essential features, but those lists may be different.

[MonksDream]

Balanced outs? Only if they're XLR. TRS 1/4-inch outs are of limited value because most equipment with 1/4-inch ins don't have balanced ins.

 

I agree with kanker about aftertouch being a detriment on a DP. However I love it on a synth.

[ITGITC]

Balanced outs? Only if they're XLR. TRS 1/4-inch outs are of limited value because most equipment with 1/4-inch ins don't have balanced ins.

 

A Truly Informative Link

 

My Mackie mixer has TRS. My JBL EON has TRS. Even my ancient Kawai line mixer has TRS.

 

Hmmmmm, Mr. MonksDream, are you playing into a Roland keyboard amp?

 

[Sundown]

My old D-110 module was very similar to your D-20 keyboard, and it had adjustable velocity for each tone at the patch level. Does the D-20 not do this?

 

Hi Bill,

 

Velocity sensitivity is adjustable for the TVA/TVF on a a D-20, but a velocity curve would dictate what is leaving the MIDI out in terms of velocity values. When I wrote this post, I had a 6-layer multi-gigabyte piano sample in HALion, and I couldn't really get a soft tone out of my D-20. It was no problem with my W/S with a proper velocity curve, but without a way to adjust the actual velocity sensitivity at the instrument level, it's very difficult to compensate. A global setting also avoids the hassle of adjusting it for each and every patch.

 

[Sven Golly]

A Foot Switch Polarity Setting

 

No one wants to goof around with special or brand-specific pedals. A simple software polarity setting will solve it for everyone.

 

It'll never happen; Roland and Yamaha make very good money from their accessories line (far more margin than on the keyboards themselves, for example), so there's very little incentive for them to make it easy on you and I to use the competitors products.

 

Pitch and Mod Wheels (or a Pitch/Mod Paddle)

 

We can argue about which setup is better, but all boards should have some implementation in an accessible area. The Roland V-piano is a great example. It's a digital piano, but if it has great keys, you're likely to use it as a controller. And for five large, it should have a paddle or a set of wheels.

 

When I sit at the V-Piano at my local retailer, the last thing I'm thinking of is pitch bend/mod wheel. Sorry, can't agree with you on this. If I'm able to cough up the coin for a V-Piano, it'll be as a piano, nothing more, nothing less.

[Sven Golly]

Balanced outs? Only if they're XLR. TRS 1/4-inch outs are of limited value because most equipment with 1/4-inch ins don't have balanced ins.

 

I'm with Tom on this... you're not using the right gear.

[johnchop]

A Foot Switch Polarity Setting

 

No one wants to goof around with special or brand-specific pedals. A simple software polarity setting will solve it for everyone.

 

It'll never happen...there's very little incentive for them to make it easy on you and I to use the competitors products

 

If that IS the rationale, it's not a great one (projects the attitude "we don't care about what keyboard players have to deal with on gigs").

 

Korg M3 has this setting, as does the Nord Electro 3. Kurzweil PC3 autodetects on startup.

 

Of course, some pedals (M-Audio) come with switches that change polarity, so there's a solution for everyone.

[ProfD]

It really depends on your needs/goals as a musician. Those are (5) things I wouldn't even look for in a KB.

 

All I need is that finger-to-ear connection. If the KB sounds and feels great, I can work out the rest and roll.

[CEB]

I played an Ensoniq KS-32 for a while. It is "weighted" with aftertouch. After age 40 or so I thought my hands were starting to become permentantly crippled. My hands were almost instantly cured after I stopped using that keyboard.

 

Aftertouch on synth keys give me no problems. I still love my D-50.

[kanker.]

A Foot Switch Polarity Setting

 

No one wants to goof around with special or brand-specific pedals. A simple software polarity setting will solve it for everyone.

 

It'll never happen...there's very little incentive for them to make it easy on you and I to use the competitors products

 

If that IS the rationale, it's not a great one (projects the attitude "we don't care about what keyboard players have to deal with on gigs").

 

Korg M3 has this setting, as does the Nord Electro 3. Kurzweil PC3 autodetects on startup.

 

Of course, some pedals (M-Audio) come with switches that change polarity, so there's a solution for everyone.

The attitude it projects to me is that of companies who, like Sven said, are looking to firm up the bottom line so they can produce flagship workstations that do everything but trim your nose hairs and get them in the stores at $3-4k.

 

None of the manufacturers you've listed with autodetect really push their pedals (for example, I've never seen a Korg pedal in a store), and M-Audio doesn't make keyboards.

[lerber3]

A Foot Switch Polarity Setting

 

No one wants to goof around with special or brand-specific pedals. A simple software polarity setting will solve it for everyone.

 

It'll never happen;

 

Many cheap keyboards have a 'detect pedal polarity on power up' feature. Works great if it's not too much trouble to plug in pedal before you turn the board on.

 

... but then there's the extra challenge of trying to play a piano with reversed pedal polarity.

[Ken Beaumont]

INTERNAL POWER SUPPLY!!!!

[Joe Muscara]

and M-Audio doesn't make keyboards.

[Ken Beaumont]

and M-Audio doesn't make pro keyboards.

 

Their fixed that for ya

 

[rappa29]

Five things any PRO keyboard should include with purchase price...

 

1.) Truck and\or plane worthy hardcase. WTF is up with this cardboard box BS?? When I buy a $1000+ bass, they GIVE me a flight\truck worthy hardcase (or rather it's included in the purchase price)! I spend $2000 on a keyboard and get a f@cking cardboard box????

2.) Keys, at least 61, any style.

3.) At least 1 audio output.

4.) Some type of power supply.

5.) An X stand.

 

Tension breaker, had to be done!

 

[kanker.]

and M-Audio doesn't make pro keyboards.

 

Their fixed that for ya

No, it was right the first time...

[CEB]

INTERNAL POWER SUPPLY!!!!

 

+5,693

[burningbusch]

For me, the single most important thing is that the main performance sounds respond precisely and naturally to the subtleties of the players touch, across a wide tonal and dynamic range. How can a jumpy, three or four velocity layer Rhodes ever be considered "professional?" It can't and it isn't. Player's spend a lifetime developing their touch--a professional digital keyboard should respond to the player just like any other musical instrument.

 

In the last few years we've seen some progress in this area.

 

Busch.

[Josh Paxton]

Busch, it seems your requirements deal with a fairly specific subset of instruments that fall into the "pro keyboards" category. There are "pro" instruments out there that are monophonic, non-velocity-sensitive synths (or at least, instruments whose main goal is to emulate those synths).

[burningbusch]

Busch, it seems your requirements deal with a fairly specific subset of instruments that fall into the "pro keyboards" category. There are "pro" instruments out there that are monophonic, non-velocity-sensitive synths (or at least, instruments whose main goal is to emulate those synths).

 

That's fair enough. Agreed.

 

Busch.

[Theo Verelst]

A good working unbalanced (and possibly mono) output for those cases where you don't want those annoying double transients.

[MonksDream]

Balanced outs? Only if they're XLR. TRS 1/4-inch outs are of limited value because most equipment with 1/4-inch ins don't have balanced ins.

 

A Truly Informative Link

 

My Mackie mixer has TRS. My JBL EON has TRS. Even my ancient Kawai line mixer has TRS.

 

Hmmmmm, Mr. MonksDream, are you playing into a Roland keyboard amp?

Busted! I got rid of the K4 because of the bulk-to-benefit ratio. I'm using the house PA monitors on large stages and the K4 was overkill on small stages. IIRC it did have balanced ins. It was a lovely amp, as amps go, and I miss it terribly. Only the Mic in on my KC 300 is balanced. I've gotta say the KC sucks as bad as I remembered. I'm saving up for a pair of K10's.

 

I'm with Tom on this... you're not using the right gear.

Busted x 2! I just checked the small B-word mixer in my practice room and even it has balanced ins. Ditto for my interface. I use all balanced cables at home but on stage I usually end up being DI'ed and AFAIK the 1/4-inch inputs on Radials aren't balanced. At least I can't find that info in the product specs. Either way you guys have a point. I stand corrected!

[drawback]

INTERNAL POWER SUPPLY!!!!

 

+5,693

 

Make that +5,694.

 

 

[Theo Verelst]

I think pro synths should like most cars and in the good days stereos (maybe that's still so, I use my own built) be true to their image to an extend. Like a BMW synth should preferably play and sound like a BMW and a Ford Escort (what's that in the US?) like a medium sized well behaved etc (no particular brand comparison, though I could come up with some!).

 

Harmonically speaking, even more so: a Kurzweil has a different name tp uphold than a GEM (no special pun intended, current Kurzweil completely sucks in that department, while OTOH they make very good synths (if yuo program them or use 1/3 of the supplied sounds) for a low enough price, and I played that GEM with the soundboard, which was nice, but I suppose it comes from Italy..) I mean a yamaga keyboard will work good for most good purposes, a Roland-expensive will give you some edge to play with your ego: that is how things should be IMO.

 

Most importantly I like to repeat an important statement: new pro boards, unless clearly a tuned version of an existing one, should be INNOVATIVE, otherwise they have no right to ask for the consumers attention much. Well, right not, but you know what I mean, "we want a the whole synth market to be ours because then we are big boys", or "a significant piece of the synth wafel (or pie) we now want for this 'copied' idea".

 

Theo