XK-1 + Vent vs. NE3

[keyoctave]

I am in need of opinion.

 

I'm wanting to upgrade my organ sounds. I currently am using an NE2. I first tried using a ventilator with it, but was not happy with how it sounded with my NE2 (after I returned it, I found the Vent thread and have to agree with Kanker). I did like the Vent's overdrive and close miked effect though. I use my NE2 for organ sounds only. I have it narrowed down to either a Hammond XK-1 with Vent, or, an NE3 (which puts both at the same price). I would like having drawbars again (owned a B-3 years ago) but also like the extra sounds the Nord has for redundancy purposes. Having or not having one or the other is not a deal breaker for me. What is is organ tone. Weight and size is a factor also (sorry, no XK-3c). I have read the manuals on both instruments. Keyboard used in a blues based band. My questions are:

 

1) Which has the more authentic organ tone (using no leslie effect)?

 

2) In comparing internal sims, which sounds best; XK-1 tweaked or NE3? and how does the XK-1 compare to the NE2's sim?

 

3) I would imangine the XK-1's keybed feel is more closer to a B-3s than the NE3.....is it?

 

4) I see the XK-1 is more tweakable for organ sounds but probably won't sound as good straight out of the box as the NE3. Would that be a correct statement?

 

I am asking this because I have no way to try out these keyboards for myself. Here's how sad that is....I called two guitar centers (both 4 & 5 hour round trip drives for me, one in a major city) and they had NONE of them on the floor or in stock! I could see that maybe with the Hammond, but the Nord? And no Stages or XK-3c's either. The local dealers only have Roland and Korg stuff.

 

Anyway, I would greatly appreaciate any opinion you care to share with me, especially from current or previous owners.

 

 

[burningbusch]

You've typed VK a few times (even the title) when I think you meant XK. As VK is a Roland organ, it's a little confusing/distracting.

 

Busch.

[VegasGT3]

1) I prefer the Electro 3, but the XK-1 is really good as well.

2) NE 3 does not need the Vent, but sounds awesome with it.

3) XK-1 keybed feels better, but E3 is very acceptable.

4) I don't agree, the XK sounds pretty good OOTB.

 

I don't think you can make a bad choice between those options. The Electro 3 is more versatile, but if you don't need all those sounds, pick the cheapest one.

 

You might tell us what kind of music you play or if it is in a band situation.

[keyoctave]

Sorry about that. Long day. Corrected.

[MoodyBluesKeys]

Wait a few days for the release of Kurz OS 2.01 for the PC3 - there is a new "double Leslie" patch in it. I won't say that it completely replaces my Electro 3 - but I've done two gigs with it, and it definitely is an improvement - even over the tweaks that are in 2.0 OS. I will say that I'm now leaving the E3 home except when I plan to do a lot of Hammond (or for practices/short gigs where the light weight of the Nord makes it the winner). The new PC3 patch is brighter, in-your-face brash, especially when the modwheel is cranked for distortion. Leslie rotor speed change is a bit fast in the beta, I've put in a request to slow it a bit - but if they don't change it, I can edit it myself. If all goes well with the last beta, I would expect the OS and SoundTower editor release very soon. Nicese thing since you have a PC3 is that this mod costs you nothing except the time to download and install.

 

I'm in a similar position - I'm thinking about adding an XK-1, putting my Electro at the church all the time instead of hauling it back and forth. I LIKE playing two keyboards (don't like loadin and loadiou - but that is one of the big nice things about the Electro).

 

My impressions on the Electro 3 - it is good, I like the way it cuts through on the high octave, and I love the ability to insert effects on the piano side while playing easily. I don't like the drawbuttons - they are a pain to reliably change while playing with the other hand. The Leslie sim is good - I don't have a Vent to compare with. But I worked on Hammonds for over 30 years - and the Nord doesn't sound as much like a B3 to me as the XK. I'd probably go for the XK-3c, but the added weight plus the fact that I probably would never add the second manual and pedals. I don't have anywhere nearby to compare sounds either - GC or SamAshe in Raleigh did not have the XK1 last time I visited.d

[rappa29]

 

1) Which has the more authentic organ tone (using no leslie effect)?

 

2) In comparing internal sims, which sounds best; XK-1 tweaked or NE3? and how does the XK-1 compare to the NE2's sim?

 

3) I would imangine the XK-1's keybed feel is more closer to a B-3s than the NE3.....is it?

 

4) I see the XK-1 is more tweakable for organ sounds but probably won't sound as good straight out of the box as the NE3. Would that be a correct statement?

 

I've had an XK1 for about 2 years. I bought a Vent last summer. I bought an NE3 last month. I used to own an NE2.

 

IMHO, YMMV, etc, etc..

 

1.) XK1 > E3 for pure tonewheel tone, no Leslie effect at all.

2.) Internal sim. XK1 tweaked, slightly better than E3. NE2 is not even in the conversation. Although in all fairness, I never use the internal sim on either anymore since I got the Vent.

3.) XK1 keybed feels better to me than NE3. NE3 is a little stiffer.

4.) Out of the box, they're comparable. I played the XK1 for a long time on it's own. Then I added a Speakeasy preamp which added a lot. Then I bought a Vent. Again, to be honest, I took the NE3 out of the box and plugged it straight into my Vent. So I haven't really given the internal sim a fair shot.

 

Regarding the Vent, I drank the KoolAid and apparently so has many people at our gigs. I've gotten many compliments on my XK1 sound and even had one musician friend ask me the infamouse, "Where's the Leslie?" question. For me, it's a piece of gear that I ALWAYS have in my gig bag and more times than not, ends up in the signal chain! NO WAY I record without it! Unless of course a real 122 is available!

 

BOTH the XK1 and NE3 sound AWESOME through the Vent! I'm still partial to my XK1 since I've had it longer, 'know it' inside out and of course, drawbars. However, I'm using the NE3+Vent more for the 1 set, multiband, 'showcase' gigs where we have to have quick setup and strike. Plus, if you need Rhodes, Wurly, Clav, Mellotron and various samples, then the NE3 is a no brainer over the XK1. Not to mention the acoustic pianos are head and shoulders above anything attempted on the NE2.

 

Again, all of this is IMHO, IME, YMMV, etc...both are obviously excellent keyboards and many people around here end up with both eventually! I held off on the NE3 for a few years and finally just broke down this year and committed to getting one!

 

Sorry for the long post, but obviously both of these keyboards are a heavy investment! I just wanted to share my experience to help you make a decision for yourself. Like you, I did all my research, read all the reviews, checked out sound clips and played them before I purchased either one. I bought the Vent based solely on member "B3'er" review and shoot out he posted.

 

FWIW - I went from a VK7+PRO3T rig (for 10 years) to an NE2 (1 year) to an XK1/NE3 + Vent. So it took me a long time to upgrade my clonewheel rig! This is my clonewheel\electromechanical emulation rig for the next 10+ yrs!

 

 

[Steve Force]

FWIW the Hammond XK-1, through a tube preamp (even the ART Tube MP Studio Mic Preamp, which goes for around $30 new)into a Vent sounds, looks, and feels pretty darned good.

[JpScoey]

I am in need of opinion.

 

I use my NE2 for organ sounds only.

I have it narrowed down to either a Hammond XK-1 with Vent, or, an NE3.

I would like having drawbars again, but also like the extra sounds the Nord has for redundancy purposes.

Having or not having one or the other is not a deal breaker for me. What is is organ tone.

Weight and size is a factor also (sorry, no XK-3c).

I have read the manuals on both instruments.

Keyboard used in a blues based band. My questions are:

 

1) Which has the more authentic organ tone (using no leslie effect)?

 

2) In comparing internal sims, which sounds best; XK-1 tweaked or NE3? and how does the XK-1 compare to the NE2's sim?

 

3) I would imangine the XK-1's keybed feel is more closer to a B-3s than the NE3.....is it?

 

4) I see the XK-1 is more tweakable for organ sounds but probably won't sound as good straight out of the box as the NE3. Would that be a correct statement?

 

I have an NE2 and a Hammond XK1 so my advice on this is -

 

(1)- The Electro is a VERY nice 'board, & to the uninitiated sounds just like a Hammond -

 

but, (in some way almost psychologically), having the 'Hammond' name + the drawbars,

 

makes the XK1 more pleasurable to the ear, & to play.

 

(2)- This is a matter of opinion which only you can decide.

 

(3)- IMO the keybed on the XK1 feels closer to a B3 than the Electro - again you can only decide for yourself which you prefer.

 

(4)- There is a lot of 'tweakability' on the Hammond - but it still sounds damn good out of the box !

 

 

The Nord is lighter in weight, & more versatile,

 

but if you want organ-only for your Blues band, I'd opt for the Hammond.

[keyoctave]

Very helpful opinions so far. Thank you. You guys rock!!

[GDP]

Wait a few days for the release of Kurz OS 2.01 for the PC3 - there is a new "double Leslie" patch in it. I won't say that it completely replaces my Electro 3 - but ...........

 

Thanx for the heads up on that Kurz update....i really like having a great Hammond/Leslie in more than one keyboard. The SoundTower Editor for V2.0 for the Kurz is due to be released tomorrow as well!

 

I am sold on the vent whether used on with the NE3 or the PC3....On the PC3 I run the KB3 sounds out the Aux outs into the Vent and use the main outputs for the other sounds....works great.

[theGman]

Agree with rappa 29; have had the XK1, Vent, E3/73, and an E2/61. Sold the XK1.

 

Also play in a 4 pc.blues band along with a 6 pc. classic rock band. The Vent sounds great through the E3.

 

I sold the XK1 because the E3 (bought later) sounded just as good when gigging, and is much lighter; plus it has 2 other organs and all those pianos. If only I could split the E3 between pianos and organs!

 

The Vent is great, etc. but, to be honest, when gigging with the rock band and all da noise going on, nobody can tell the difference between E3/Vent and no-Vent, so I just use the Vent with the blues band, where it can be heard.

And, to confess, if it's a low life blues gig, I just don't use the Vent at all.

 

Since I like to do the piano sounds with the B3 sound, I use a 2nd board...a MM6/61.

[Keen]

I'm satisfied with my XK-1 without a Vent, with the right tweaks and amplification. Like theGman, my loud rock bands mask that almost-imperceptible difference. I would like a better overdriven sound than what the XK-1 offers though.

FWIW the Hammond XK-1, through a tube preamp (even the ART Tube MP Studio Mic Preamp, which goes for around $30 new)into a Vent sounds, looks, and feels pretty darned good.

Interesting...

Could a tube preamp like that be used for overdrive instead of the XK's onboard OD? Or would the internal sim get mucked up in the process?

[Pale]

Can someone share the so much mentioned XK1 tweaks? I'd like to try out some stuff that work for other people.

[JMcS]

You might try something like these:

 

Slow Speed Horn: Mid 30's

Slow Speed Bass: Low 30's

Fast Speed Horn: ~378

Fast Speed Bass: ~375

Rise Time Horn: ~2 - 2.2sec

Rise Time Bass: ~5 sec

Fall Time Horn: ~2sec

Fall Time Bass:~5sec

Brake Time Horn: ~2.2 - 2.5sec

Brake Time Bass: ~6 - 8sec

Volume Horn: 0

Volume Bass: 0

Mic Angle: Try the wider angles

Mic Distance: Try the farther distances

Horn Character: IIRC I use the Deep setting but this is probably amp dependent.

 

The Leslie cabinet choices provide combinations of cabinet size/low rotor size and amp type so try the 122, 147 types. I forget what models are included but they will all affect the overall tone.

 

The farther and wider mic settings smooth out the revolutions of the horn and low rotor so they don't seem to "pop" to the front and be gone. This is probably a matter of taste, people who are used to having a Leslie right behind their head may prefer the opposite settings. The settings I prefer seem to give the digital Leslie a little distance from me and provide more of the room/space tone.

 

If you run through a mixer or an amp with an EQ you might try turning the high frequency (12-16kHz) control down some or a lot. This will pull the highest organ frequencies down in a curve similar to the way the Tone Control in a vintage B3 or the XK-3c does.

 

Also, you might try turning the Vibrato rate to the slowest setting if you use it with the Leslie sometimes.

 

Good Luck.

 

 

[AnotherScott]

One more possibility, besides the E3 or XK1, would be the forthcoming Korg Kronos. As with what many have said here about the E3 and XK1, there's a lot of personal preference here, but I'm partial to Korg's CX3 organ engine, which will be in the Kronos. Unfortunately, it's quite a bit more expensive than those other options, but it also offers a lot of other things you may find useful. (Plus it could probably replace your Triton, too...)

[AnotherScott]

I sold the XK1 because the E3 (bought later) sounded just as good when gigging, and is much lighter; plus it has 2 other organs and all those pianos. If only I could split the E3 between pianos and organs!

Hence the Nord Stage 2...

[Steve Force]

You might try something like these:

 

Slow Speed Horn: Mid 30's

Slow Speed Bass: Low 30's

Fast Speed Horn: ~378

Fast Speed Bass: ~375

Rise Time Horn: ~2 - 2.2sec

Rise Time Bass: ~5 sec

Fall Time Horn: ~2sec

Fall Time Bass:~5sec

Brake Time Horn: ~2.2 - 2.5sec

Brake Time Bass: ~6 - 8sec

Volume Horn: 0

Volume Bass: 0

Mic Angle: Try the wider angles

Mic Distance: Try the farther distances

Horn Character: IIRC I use the Deep setting but this is probably amp dependent.

 

The Leslie cabinet choices provide combinations of cabinet size/low rotor size and amp type so try the 122, 147 types. I forget what models are included but they will all affect the overall tone.

 

The farther and wider mic settings smooth out the revolutions of the horn and low rotor so the don't seem to "pop" to the front and be gone. This is probably a matter of taste, people who are used to having a Leslie right behind their head may prefer the opposite settings. The settings I prefer seem to give the digital Leslie a little distance from me and provide more of the room/space tone.

 

If you run through a mixer or an amp with an EQ you might try turning the high frequency (12-16kHz) control down some or a lot. This will pull the highest organ frequencies down in a curve similar to the way the Tone Control in a vintage B3 or the XK-3c does.

 

Also, you might try turning the Vibrato rate to the slowest setting if you use it with the Leslie sometimes.

 

Good Luck.

 

 

I like it faster so I speed both up and decreased the rise time for both as well. (I A/B it with both my Vent and my Leslie 122..)

[theGman]

Ref the Stage 2 Nord, I wasn't going to spend $3500 or more for that, especially when Nord could easily have split the E3.

 

I bought a MM6 61 key, 11 lb., use it on top of the E3 for piano sounds when necessary, and a few other sounds. Total weight about 30 pounds, lots of sounds (for me).

 

Paul

 

 

[tucktronix]

Ref the Stage 2 Nord, I wasn't going to spend $3500 or more for that, especially when Nord could easily have split the E3.

 

I bought a MM6 61 key, 11 lb., use it on top of the E3 for piano sounds when necessary, and a few other sounds. Total weight about 30 pounds, lots of sounds (for me).

 

Paul

 

 

[keyoctave]

I like it faster so I speed both up and decreased the rise time for both as well. (I A/B it with both my Vent and my Leslie 122..)

 

How does the XK-1 sim compare to the Vent?

[Steve Force]

I like it faster so I speed both up and decreased the rise time for both as well. (I A/B it with both my Vent and my Leslie 122..)

 

How does the XK-1 sim compare to the Vent?

 

Hmmmm. For a jam the XK-1 sim would work. And work pretty darned well.

 

But for an organ-centric rock/blues/jazz gig then I would say add a Vent (or a Leslie..)

 

Adding the tube preamp really, IMHO, gives the XK-1 the biggest boost, all things considered.

 

EDIT: Let me rephrase--the Vent is the biggest kicker. The $30 tube preamp that I am using is highly impact-full.

[rappa29]

Don't be mistaken, the XK1 sim is perfectly usable and good enough for the common ear! I played my XK1 on it's own for a long time before I bought the Speakeasy and ultimately the Vent. The Speakeasy gave it balls, tube warmth\grit and just generally opened up the tonal spectrum of my XK1. However, it's been collecting dust since I bought the Vent!

 

Try to find member "B3er" YouTube\audio shoot out between the Vent w\XK3, XM2 (module version of XK1) w\internal sim and his real 122.

 

FWIW - I play in an original rock band ala Wallflowers, Petty, Mellencamp, Crowes and etc. I could probably get away without using the Vent, but my ears are spoiled and there's no going back!

[keyoctave]

I really appreaciate all the feedback!

 

I am feeling myself starting to lean toward the XK-1/Vent. My plan would be to get the XK-1 first, evaluate how I interact with it and it with my setup, and if that is positive, then add the Vent. Since the retailer I would purchase it from has a 45 day return policy, I would have ample time to evaluate the product (which would be worth the cost of return shipping to me). If the XK-1 dosen't work out, I would get the NE3. Since I have an NE2, I kinda have an idea of what I would be getting with the NE3 (better sounds but not as intuiative interface). Either way, I have decided to keep my NE 2 to have a back-up keyboard I can take with me.

[Steve Force]

Not to sway you but... I had a NE 2 then went to a Hammond and Never looked back...

[Discotheque]

Not to further cloud the issue, but perhaps the Studiologic Numa Organ? I own the XK-1 and though the weight is doable, still not fun. I'm not a big guy though so whatever works for you. From what I've read though, the sim in the Numa Organ is really good, as is the tone, and you'd be getting drawbars. Also it weighs about 10 pounds less (I believe) than the XK-1. More money though. Just a thought.

[MusicaL]

Not to further cloud the issue, but perhaps the Studiologic Numa Organ? I own the XK-1 and though the weight is doable, still not fun. I'm not a big guy though so whatever works for you. From what I've read though, the sim in the Numa Organ is really good, as is the tone, and you'd be getting drawbars. Also it weighs about 10 pounds less (I believe) than the XK-1. More money though. Just a thought.

 

+2000

[Agu]

Sorry guys, I know this thread has some time, but I`m kind of needing this information;

My case is very much the same (I used NE 2 for some years and now i need to feed my love for organ playing,and get a better clone- better tone AND better action; I`n between NE3 and XK1).

 

I got accustomed to use NE`s keybed but i think I`d love to play in a more similar keybed as a real Hammond has (a friend has a real B3, and I feel I can play better and more naturally on that softer keybed...)

So...(finally), is XK1`s keybed NOTICEABLY much closer to it than NE´s does?

thanks a lot!

 

Agustin

[Jim Alfredson]

Get the Hammond SK1, which just started shipping this week. The keybed is awesome and so are the sounds.

[keyClicker]

IF the Sk1 really does sound like the Xk series, I will agree with B3-er on that.

But, since I've never played one... let's talk NE3 and Xk1.

They are both really great clones, and you probably would be ok with any of them.

But, since we are here to talk...

I played both side by side last year and my choice would be: Xk1.

The Xk sound is great and its action awesome. And it's ok even without a Vent.

I can only speak for jazz players, but I also hear good things about the Xks from rock players/producers.

 

PS: make sure you try the Sk1...

[AnotherScott]

So...(finally), is XK1`s keybed NOTICEABLY much closer to it than NE´s does?

The XK1 action is similar to the action of the NE3. The NE3 feels a little stiffer/springier, it kind of "snaps back" more, so I'd prefer the XK1, but it's not a night and day difference.