Hard Day's Night - some songs semitone flat !?

[Floyd Tatum]

If there are any Beatles fanatics here, you may find this interesting

 

I watched A Hard Day's Night recently (on DVD), and I noticed that some of the songs sound a semitone flat from where they are supposed to sound.

 

For the following songs, if you look at their fretboards while they play, you can see them playing the songs in their regular key, but they sound a semitone flat:

 

If I Fell (1st time) - played D, sounds Db

And I Love Her - played E & F, sounds Eb & E

I'm Happy Just To Dance With You - played E, sounds Eb

I Should Have Known Better (2nd time) - played G, sounds Gb

 

For these songs, I can't see their fretboards close enough to tell what key they are playing them in, but they sound a semitone flat from the regular keys:

 

Tell Me Why - regular D, sounds Db

If I Fell (2nd time) - regular D, sounds Db

She Loves You - regular G, sounds Gb

 

Not all of the songs in the movie sound a semitone flat - the following songs sound in their regular keys. Most of these, the band did not perform them in the movie, they were 'background' music. Except for I Should Have Known Better (1st time), which they performed on the train, and you can see them playing it in G, the normal key.

 

A Hard Day's Night (opening & ending credits) - regular G, sounds G

I Should Have Known Better (1st time) - regular G, sounds G

I Wanna Be Your Man - regular E, sounds E

Don't Bother Me - regular Em, sounds Em

All My Loving - regular E, sounds E

Can't Buy Me Love (both times) - regular C, sounds C

 

I first noticed this in one of the songs as I tried to play along with it. Then I decided to check a couple of others, and ended up checking all of them.

 

What's interesting to me is that no one seems to have documented this. On the DVD, which was from 2002 or 2003 I think, there were all kinds of interviews with the filmakers, including sound techs and George Martin, and they didn't mention this. I also Googled until my fingers bled, but couldn't find a mention of it anywhere. Which I find odd. Surely I can't be the first guy to notice this, can I?. Do I get a prize or something?

 

 

[The Geoff]

They didn't necessarily tune down a semitone. At that time it was/is quite common for recording engineers to vary the playback speed of the recording dependant on what they thought sounded best - eg the two different speed in 'Strawberry Fields Forever'.

 

G.

[Bartholomew]

I've noticed that same thing with a lot of Motown hits - they sound too fast, don't feel right and the keys are wrong or 1/4 tone out approx. Check the songs on uTube which are usually uploaded from the original album or 45RPM - "If I Fell" is in D on uTube, I only listened to that song.

 

My group in the Sixties was doing retro R&B on stage when the originals were released - and all of a sudden they just feel too fast. The Geoff is right but also some of the problem could be compression of the video for tv broadcast which may change the key somewhat from the actual movie.

 

Personally I slow down a lot of material because it has better feel but keep the original key. It always amazes me that we can now change speed of an original track or whatever using a recording program and the key remains the same due to digital.

 

You don't get a prize because I'm first in line for putting a PAF humbucker as the neck p/u prior to Keith Richards - the prize was a big loss in value of my 1968 telecaster. We didn't know we were using "vintage" instruments on our gigs.

[Mooseboy]

Floyd, I think it'd be interesting to not only compare the pitch, but also the tempo. That way you could assure yourself that it's some after-the-fact-shenanigans going on.

[JohnH]

I hate songs not playing back in correct pitch. Just found a mistake on the Deep Purple Stormbringer remaster. The original CD had no issues and everything was in correct pitch. The 2009 remaster has one song that was mastered too slow (Holy Man). I've jammed to this song for years with no problem. Recently sat down with it and discovered the remaster Holy Man was at 435. There's a remix on the album of this song and it's only a fraction off 440, not off enough to worry about. I've notified the DPAS historian about it and he has sent the info to EMI. He thinks it could be a mistake on some of the CD's rather than all of them. The mixes were sent to David Coverdale for approval, but nobody would be able to catch this unless you either have hummingbird ears or you sit down with an instrument and play along like I did.

[p90jr]

They didn't necessarily tune down a semitone. At that time it was/is quite common for recording engineers to vary the playback speed of the recording dependant on what they thought sounded best - eg the two different speed in 'Strawberry Fields Forever'.

 

G.

 

Right. It would happen in the mixing and mastering phases, too.

[Floyd Tatum]

I wasn't suggesting that they tuned down a semitone. I suppose that's possible, but I doubt it.

 

I'm aware that some recording engineers might vary the playback speed during recording / mastering.

 

However, I'm talking about a slightly different thing here. Let's take If I Fell for example. On the Hard Days Night record/cd, it sounded in the key of D. In the movie, when you see them play it, you can see they are playing in D. My point is that in the movie it sounds in the key of Db. This is the way it is in the dvd version I watched, and it's most likely the same way in the original movie. I'm just pointing this out, I'm not offering any explanation of it.

 

I'm guessing, although not positive, that they used the studio recordings in the movie, and had the 'boys' lip-synch to it. So, how did 7 of the 13 songs end up a semitone flat? And most of those songs that are a semi-tone flat are the ones that the beatles 'played'/lip-synched in the movie. The songs that are 'background music' in the movie are in the same key as the record. To me, that's an oddity. And like I said, I find it odd that no one's mentioned it anywhere. It would have been cool if they'd explained it during one of the interviews with the sound engineers and George Martin on the DVD re-release, but they didn't.

 

Was it deliberate, or an accident? Did they slow down the music intentionally for effect? Or was it a synch-related accident or anomaly? I'm just kinda curious.

 

EDIT: I just found out there's a documentary called "You Can't Do That! The Making of 'A Hard Day's Night'", so maybe it gets explained in there, I'll have to see if I can find me a copy of it to watch.