hybrid head questions

[johnson]

This is my first post on this forum even though I have subscribed to bass player for several years now. I come seeking some advice/opinions.

 

I am currently searching for a backup head. I want a hybrid(tube pre, solid state power) head that can push at least 500w @ 4ohms and is preferably $600 or less. I haven't played many hybrids recently seeing as how i've now owned my Sunn 300t for 2 years. To be honest, I have not had many problems at all with my sunn until this past tour in which I blew a tube and several fuses 2 songs into our set. I then had to plug straight into the board for the remainder of the gig and that was nooooo fun! I have not shopped for or played many hybrids for a few years now, so I was wondering what you guys thought about best price vs. sound etc. Any and all opinions are welcome and feel free to ask questions. Thanks in advance.

[WCriley]

Can't help you much with hybrids, but have you considered a preamp/power amp setup?

 

The Peavey IPR 1600 power amp sells new for $300 (I bought one used for $225) and puts out ~5oo watts per channel (~1600 watts bridged) into a 4 ohm load. Add a tube preamp with the remainder of your budget.

 

Much better investment than a head because if/when your tastes change you only need to replace the preamp.

 

[johnson]

Never did think of that. I have a qsc power amp for my keyboard setup from another project i'm involved in. what tube pre's would you suggest sir?

[Michele C.]

I think I would try this http://www.markbass.it/product_detail.php?id=102 they have also a rocker version, with more grit. It's also quite light.

http://www.markbass.it/upload_area/products/0/LM_TUBE_front_high.jpg

 

[mro]

You could get a used Eden WT550. 500w at 4ohms,620w or 750w (depending on year made) at 2 ohms. Has 1 12AX7 preamp tube.Solis State output.Plenty loud.

[jcadmus]

You could get a used Eden WT550. 500w at 4ohms,620w or 750w (depending on year made) at 2 ohms. Has 1 12AX7 preamp tube.Solis State output.Plenty loud.

 

This. Tough to find them in your price range, though, I think.

[JBFLA]

Shuttle 6.0

 

I've got one of these and I love it. You can almost always find them used at Talkbass for $400-$500.

 

[Nicklab]

Shuttle 6.0

 

I've got one of these and I love it. You can almost always find them used at Talkbass for $400-$500.

 

This is a hybrid head that I tried when I was looking for a micro amp head. But personally, I wasn't crazy about this one given the way Genz Benz designed the EQ section.

[Danzilla]

While I tend to like the Genz Benz heads, I had to use a Hartke HA5500C amp at a festival gig last summer, and it was surprisingly good. Between the tube & solid state preamps and graphic EQ, I was able to dial up something useable rather quickly. It lists here for $550; I'm sure you can find a used one even cheaper.

[jeremy c]

Maybe you could find a used SWR SM-500.

 

I've used a lot of SWR heads and currently own two of them and also a Genz Benz Shuttle.

 

If you decide to use your power amp, you could get a Peavey Max preamp or even get an Ampeg SVT preamp.

[The Se3ker]

I use a Genz-Benz Shuttle 6.0 and love it. I'm a big fan of the signal shape filters, and of the hybrid amps that I tried the shuttle sounded the best once you started cranking the gain (to my ears, at least).

[johnson]

I would love to get either an Eden wt800 or an SWR sm900, but both of them are out of my price range, even used. I have played both of these heads and have liked them alot. To expensive though.

 

This is the second forum where I've heard some good things about Genz-Benz heads. I would love to give one a good once over but no one around me seems to have them.

 

I've never been the biggest Hartke fan, but then again, I think the only heads I've tried of theirs are the all solid state models, no hybrids. I'll have to give one of their hybrids a try if I can find one near me.

 

I REALLY need to decide if I wanna do the pre/power setup or just go with a new head. It would probably be cheaper if I went with the pre/power setup seeing as how I already have the power amp. The problem with that, however, is weight! Haha, my qsc power amp is one heavy beast! Seeing as how it would be backing up a 75lb sunn, that sounds like a little much on the ol' back. Haha. What do you guys think?

 

P.S.

Thanks again, for all the reply's thus far!

[WCriley]

I know I'm repeating myself, but the Peavey IPR1600 is $300 new and there are some used ones on the market now that the IPR3000 is shipping. Weighs 7 pounds! (My wife thought I'd bought an empty box!) Sell the QSC. Should leave enough of your $600 budget for a nice tube pre.

[johnson]

Quick (probably stupid) questions for you about the Peavey. One, what are the major differences between the IPR 1600 and the IPR DSP 1600? Also, I can't find anywhere that says what it will push at 4ohms. Everywhere I read it says 800watts per channel at 2ohms. What does it push per channel at 4ohms? Again, sorry for the stupid questions. It's been a while since i've messed with power amps.

[calypsocoral]

Hi Johnson,

 

I'll echo what another forumite said about Genz Benz and their quality. But, instead of the Shuttle series, I prefer to direct you to their brand-spanking-new Streamliner heads, available in both 600W and 900W versions.

 

The heads utilize a 3 12AX7's in their pre-amp. And, yes, BOTH triodes of each tube are utilized, making this a 6-stage pre-amp (something previously-unheard-of in a compact, Class D bass head)!

 

They are designed primarily for tube-y clean tones, but I've heard some Lemmy-like grit come out of them as well.

[johnson]

I use my clean channel probably 97% of the time. I don't use the dirt that often. However, would the new Genz-Benz streamliners be out of my price range?

[rumpelstiltskin.]

is the only reason for wanting a hybrid head to get more tube-like tones? if so, i'd make it a point to play through all of them. in my opinion, having a tube in the preamp is far from implying anything close to sounding like a tube amp. certainly having three 12AX7s fully utilized may contribute to a more authentic tube amplifier tone, there is way more to "tube tone" than just tubes. ultimately, for me, the tone is more important than the technology. i would try to be a little more open in my search and look at what players you like play.

 

in answer to your question regarding the IPR DSP, it has DSP in it that provides a lot signal processing -- 4-band parametric EQ, high pass filter, bass enhancement, etc.

 

robb.

[johnson]

I've kind of limited my search to hybrids due to the fact that most of the completely solid state amps I've played do not sound as good as the hybrids I've tried. Again, just my opinion. In your defense though, I've not been head shopping in several years, simply because once I found the sunn, the search was not only over, it was destroyed.

 

I will have to do a lot of demoing before buying this backup though. I have received several excellent suggestions from all the forums I've posted on and will follow up on as many as I can get my hands on.

[Big Daddy from Motown]

My favorite tube preamp is the Demeter, followed by the Alembic. Both use classic Fender EQ designs.

 

By the way there is a newer G&K class D amp with a 3 tube front end.

 

[johnson]

Do you know what model of GK it is?

[calypsocoral]

Are you sure you aren't confusing G&K (Gallien & Krueger) with G-B (Genz-Benz)? Because the GB Streamliner I mentioned above is a Class D + Switchmode head with 3 preamp tubes.

[rumpelstiltskin.]

GK MB Fusion.

 

robb.

[calypsocoral]

Yep. Sorry. Forgot all about that one...

[bassin bill]

hartke will most likely blow up on you at some point if you gig a lot. i really like the orig swr 750x pre fender version if you can find it, but it may not be cheap enough for you and is a bit heavy. i also like the Little Mark Tube 800 watt head which i got as a doa from musician's friend. total investment on that was about $700. it is very light and i can coax a similar sound as the swr. however these 2 really do have their differences.

i tend to go for high end gear because it must sound great, have reserve power and be very reliable. my swr has seen tons of gigs and with plenty of hours on it, i still have complete faith in it. it is definitely better than the current model. the markbass is definitely high end but i have only had it a couple of months and am only using it for rehearsal. i hear ashdon is really nice also.

[mro]

I don't have any experience with this, but nobody has mentioned Mesa Boogie. They have the M6 Carbine thats 600w at 4 ohms. Are they falling out of favor? This head I have seen for $600 used. Just a thought.

[Buckeyebassmastr]

Hi Johnson,

You may want to check out the Carvin BX500 Head: Warm 12AX7 tube in preamp, 3 simple EQ system, Drive for clean to dirty, 500 watts to 2or4 ohms, light 5.8lbs, only $399. NEW! I have the larger BX1500 w/2 cabs & New Lightweight MB Micro Bass BX250 w/10"& tweeter combo for my heavy equipment challenged older body. They ALL have an outstanding wide range tonal pallette to choose from and plenty of headroom (just ask my bandmates and sound engineer). I'm not an expert, but I have tried most of the equipment on the market in my 47+ years of playing. At the very least, check the specs out for yourself @ carvin.com. Good Luck... Buckeyebassmaster with Traffic Jam~Virginia Classic Rock All~Stars; Williamsburg, VA

[Rodl2005]

ANOTHER VOTE for the Genz Benz SHUTTLE 6.0 'Tis a beauty of an amp- with the ability to give a nice tube grind if U dial it in, but will also STAY clean if U like that too.

 

I haven't tried the newer Stramliner by GB. But I got MY Shuttle 6.0 for less than $1 /watt & it's close to bing my fave lite weight amp. ONLY the Mesa WALKABOUT beats it IMO. ANOTHER GREAT AMP!! which will go down to 2 ohms & put out 550w @ 2 ohms

[johnson]

small update:

 

I finally got the chance to try out some heads. I tried out as many as I could considering the limited options available at my local music stores.

 

I got a chance to try out a Mark Bass little Mark tube 800, a GK 1001RB(which I had tried in the past, but couldn't recollect the sound) an ampeg svt700 and a Hartke LH1000.

 

My favorite, by far, was the little mark tube 800. It was an awesome sounding little amp! I liked how the pre was blendable between tube and solid state. The Mark Bass's solid state even sounded really good, which was an excellent surprise! Wasn't a big fan of the price tag, but definitely my top choice.

 

The GK was good as well. The only thing I didn't really like about it was the highs were more aggressive than I would have liked. Overall though, very solid tone.

 

Wasn't to impressed by the ampeg as I expected. I've never really been a big fan of their heads or cabs and this sort of reaffirmed that for me. I've heard some people get some AMAZING tone out of ampeg gear, I just never seem to enjoy the tone I get when I play through their stuff.

 

The second biggest surprise I received while shopping around came from the Hartke LH1000. My history with Hartke has, like ampeg, never been to exciting. In fact, until I tried the LH1000, i'm pretty sure every Hartke head I tried was completely solid state. The biggest bummer with the LH1000 was that it did not have many tone sculpting options at all. It's features are also very basic as well, no tuning mute or other features i'm used to on a head sort of bummed me out. However, once I tried it the tone + power output + price tag on the head blew me away! Again, the Mark Bass was my favorite by a long shot, but as far as bang for your buck is concerned, the Hartke was a pleasant surprise!

 

I still haven't made a purchase yet seeing as how I'm still trying to test as many heads as I can before I decide, but I figured I would throw out an update and see if you guys had any other comments/suggestions. Thanks again!

[rumpelstiltskin.]

i've heard good things about that hartke head. and just about everyone loves mark bass. i've never played one, but i would like to the next time i have an opportunity.

 

robb.

[johnson]

Yeah, that Hartke was a big surprise. There were very little tone sculpting options which was the biggest issue I had with it. As I said though, the tone + power + price tag was really amazing!