Tenstrum Posted February 24, 2011 Posted February 24, 2011 Recently, my band has been in the studio laying down some tracks (17 so far). I laid down 8 tracks back in September and 9 about 2 weeks ago. For the first 8 tracks, I setup using my Fender Bassman 1200 Pro going into my Ampeg SVT-410HLF. The guy in the studio mic'ed my cabinet using a Cascade Fat Head. I never really heard of this mic so I suggested we use my AKG D-112 to record with. Studio Guy said that he preferred the Fat Head for bottom end. So I trusted him to know his equipment. I really wish that I hadn't... My bass came out sounding very muddy in the mix. We tried working with the EQ some and got it to sound decent, but it just does not sound good to me. Flash forward several months and its my turn to lay down more tracks. I took the same gear and setup except this time I insisted on using my AKG D-112 to mic my cabinet. Talk about a world of difference! My bass sounds so much better in the mix! Everyone in the band asked what I did different this time around and I told them that I had just used my mic instead of the studios. One of the guitarist even suggested that I go back and retrack the first 8 that I laid down. I'm really thinking of doing it because there is such a huge difference in tone. The AKG recorded WAY better than that stupid Fat Head. I've always used that mic when playing live and on a few recordings that I've done at home. At first I thought that my ears were just used to hearing it, but the comments from the other band members and people who I've let hear the recordings so far really make me think that its not just me. I've got 3 more tracks to lay down at some point in the future before we pick songs to put on a CD. I can probably retrack those original 8 recordings in one evening so it really wouldn't take much more time or money. Plus I think I'd be a lot happier... Tenstrum "Paranoid? Probably. But just because you're paranoid doesn't mean there isn't an invisible demon about to eat your face." Harry Dresden, Storm Front
EddiePlaysBass Posted February 24, 2011 Posted February 24, 2011 Do it. "I'm a work in progress." Micky Barnes The Ross Brown Shirt World Tour
Russkull Posted February 24, 2011 Posted February 24, 2011 Curious...what's the specific difference you and others are hearing from your AKG? Cleaner tone, better mids, etc? "Of all the world's bassists, I'm one of them!" - Lug
Tenstrum Posted February 24, 2011 Author Posted February 24, 2011 All the above. That and I am getting a truer recording of my rig. Tenstrum "Paranoid? Probably. But just because you're paranoid doesn't mean there isn't an invisible demon about to eat your face." Harry Dresden, Storm Front
b5pilot Posted February 24, 2011 Posted February 24, 2011 Do it. +1 If you're not happy with the tracks and you have the time and money then definately go for it! I thought those fathead mics were for bass drum? Lydian mode? The only mode I know has the words "pie ala" in front of it. http://www.myspace.com/theeldoradosband
TimR Posted February 24, 2011 Posted February 24, 2011 That's because the D112 has a tailored response for Bass Guitar and Bass drum and emphasises the frequencies you are interested in, whereas the FatHead has a flat response. So the D112 needs little EQ to sit well in the mix whereas the FatHeat will get a clean recording of exactly what your cab is putting out, but might require a lot of messing with EQ to sound "right". http://www.akg.com/mediendatenbank2/psfile/datei/38/D1124055c25c068d6.pdf http://www.cascademicrophones.com/PDF/FAT_HEAD_Locked.pdf Did you DI as well? Always useful as a backup or addition. Feel the groove internally within your own creativity. - fingertalkin
Tenstrum Posted February 24, 2011 Author Posted February 24, 2011 Yeah but the problem is that the Fat Head really didn't record a sound that was representative of my rig. It really muddied it up. And my rig doesn't sound muddy. No DI, but I thought about it. Tenstrum "Paranoid? Probably. But just because you're paranoid doesn't mean there isn't an invisible demon about to eat your face." Harry Dresden, Storm Front
TimR Posted February 24, 2011 Posted February 24, 2011 Its all to do with mic placement. I expect if you stood with one ear a few inches form one driver you would hear somethiing different. Feel the groove internally within your own creativity. - fingertalkin
boycalledsue Posted February 24, 2011 Posted February 24, 2011 If you are retracking why not record a clean DI signal straight from your bass at the same time, then you can re-amp as much as you like if you don't get the mic and/or placement perfect? I've only done garage based recording but we've always had clean tracks of everything to fiddle with later. The maid's gone all cranky and the cook's acting queer Oh what a terrible place is a pub with no beer
WCriley Posted February 24, 2011 Posted February 24, 2011 If you are retracking why not record a clean DI signal straight from your bass at the same time, then you can re-amp as much as you like if you don't get the mic and/or placement perfect? I've only done garage based recording but we've always had clean tracks of everything to fiddle with later. Isn't this standard practice in all studios?
Tenstrum Posted February 25, 2011 Author Posted February 25, 2011 Unfortunately, no. I thought about running direct as well. Lots of things to consider. Tenstrum "Paranoid? Probably. But just because you're paranoid doesn't mean there isn't an invisible demon about to eat your face." Harry Dresden, Storm Front
rumpelstiltskin. Posted February 25, 2011 Posted February 25, 2011 retrack? http://www.gifbin.com/bin/1234525508_ben_stiller_-_do_it.gif i strongly recommend combining DI with mic'd amp. i got great results on my most recent recording. robb. because i like people.
_Sweet Willie_ Posted February 25, 2011 Posted February 25, 2011 If you DI, you can also reamp later if you wish (e.g., you liked how you played but weren't happy with the tone). HOWEVER, I'm a real novice at this stuff... Someone else who knows more might tell me I'm an idiot and then you'll cross this idea off the list. Regardless of reamping, ALWAYS use a DI. Why not? Limited number tracks? Even that can typically be solved. Peace. --SW spreadluv Fanboy? Why, yes! Nordstrand Pickups and Guitars. Messiaen knew how to parlay the funk.
TimmyP1955 Posted February 27, 2011 Posted February 27, 2011 The fathead does not have a flat response, and neither do most other mics (except omnis and the RE20). When used close to the source, they all have a midbass boost centered near 200 Hz that can be as high as 12dB. If I were going to mic a bass cab, the first mics I'd try would be the PR40 and the AT4050, both of which are great all-around mics. In the session discussed, it sounds to me like the engineer just does not know how to turn the little faucets on the console to make the bass sound good.
_Sweet Willie_ Posted February 28, 2011 Posted February 28, 2011 In the session discussed, it sounds to me like the engineer just does not know how to turn the little faucets on the console to make the bass sound good. Sounds like a plausible explanation to me. Peace. --s-uu spreadluv Fanboy? Why, yes! Nordstrand Pickups and Guitars. Messiaen knew how to parlay the funk.
Tenstrum Posted February 28, 2011 Author Posted February 28, 2011 In the session discussed, it sounds to me like the engineer just does not know how to turn the little faucets on the console to make the bass sound good. That could be a possibility as well, but the guitars and drums sound really good. I really think the reason the bass didn't is because of that Fat Head mic. He did use the Fat Head to record the guitars. Tenstrum "Paranoid? Probably. But just because you're paranoid doesn't mean there isn't an invisible demon about to eat your face." Harry Dresden, Storm Front
TimR Posted February 28, 2011 Posted February 28, 2011 Well, it's marketed as having a flat response and the graphs I linked to indicate it has a flat frequency response. Even if it does have a hump at 200Hz that will be below the prescence in the guitars (above 250Hz) even though their fundamental can be below 200. The 200Hz hump won't bring out the higher frequencies that define the character of the Bass guitar. If this is lacking it will be even more important that the EQ on the guitars is correct and that certain frequencies in the guitars will need to be cut to let the Bass shine through. Which might not be neccesary if the relevant frequencies of the bass guitar have already been boosted by the mic (as in the case of the D112). Feel the groove internally within your own creativity. - fingertalkin
bassin bill Posted March 2, 2011 Posted March 2, 2011 i can see no reason not to always go DI + miked if desired. you can then re-amp or create other chains. it just doesn't make sense not to do a clean DI. My guess is this engineer had something in mind that was not conveyed to the band. i've seen this too many times. communication is always the key to success , assuming the players can get the playing to express what they are going for. B
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.