GREGHUX Posted February 23, 2011 Posted February 23, 2011 Guys I have beeen very happy with my P150 since I purchased it way back in 1994. I'm still actually pretty happy with it, but it's had a beating. I'm keeping my eye out for a 2nd hand one in the series but don't know what the improvements have been over the years (and I currently have my eye on a 'mint' P200' goiing quite cheap). I know the latter ones have a ton of sounds but I'm not really interested in that. Really only the pianos, rhodes and other vintage electric piano sounds. I seem to recall that the action changed significantly with the P200 when I tried one in store. So what experiences do you have with these?
Dana. Posted February 23, 2011 Posted February 23, 2011 How keen are you on staying within the line? What's your budget to upgrade? I'm asking because the new CP line (CP1, CP5, CP50) bests the models you mentioned, but they lack the built-in speakers.
Dave Ferris Posted February 23, 2011 Posted February 23, 2011 My friend uses a P200 to trigger Ivory and other samples in his studio. I can get around on it just ok but if there is anything I have to play that requires a little more finesse technique wise, I'd take my CP5 over. I had the CP300 for a couple of years and thought the piano and action were far superior to the 200. Never did own the P250, but played it in the store next to the 300. I was considering the 250 when they first came out with the 300 and Sam Ash had the 250 on a blowout special. But I thought the 300 sounded more refined and smoother, both in the action and sound...it was very close between those two models though. Not into the newer CP50s ? I think the sound is at least another step up from the CP300. https://soundcloud.com/dave-ferris https://www.youtube.com/@daveferris2709 2005 NY Steinway D Yamaha AvantGrand N3X, CP88, P515
GREGHUX Posted February 23, 2011 Author Posted February 23, 2011 To be honest I really LIKE the built in speakers. The sound quality is quite good but more importantly it sends vibrations through the keyboard which make it far more like a real piano. As for budget - that's a tricky one. I could afford to spend up to $3k but I play less often nowadays. Plus I hate watching my gear depreciate! I'd rather buy something that has already gone through that initial period of steep devaluation!
Dave Ferris Posted February 23, 2011 Posted February 23, 2011 I understand. If it were me, I'd hold out for the CP300 then. I don't know how the CL scene is by you, but they pop up quite frequently around here. I sold mine locally last year for $1300 and it was in mint shape. Not sure if they are an official "discontinued" Yamaha product yet also. https://soundcloud.com/dave-ferris https://www.youtube.com/@daveferris2709 2005 NY Steinway D Yamaha AvantGrand N3X, CP88, P515
Dave Ferris Posted February 23, 2011 Posted February 23, 2011 here's a 250 http://losangeles.craigslist.org/lac/msg/2218323659.html https://soundcloud.com/dave-ferris https://www.youtube.com/@daveferris2709 2005 NY Steinway D Yamaha AvantGrand N3X, CP88, P515
drawback Posted February 23, 2011 Posted February 23, 2011 I had a 250 briefly and returned it. The reason was that there wasn't a way to program the sustain pedal to sustain both the left & right sides in Split Mode. Normally for me this is L=Bass, R=AP or EP, and it was impossible to play without this, and all the other P series Yamahas sustained both sides of a split by default. I am not sure about the P200 but that is one thing to be aware of, if it means anything to you. The CP300 took care of that - programmable pedals, great action, the usual top quality soundset which I believe was an improvement over the previous models. I sold mine when it became too much for this old boy to schlepp, but I miss having it around. I recall one of our members, The Pro, swore by his CP300 and I think he still uses it in his studio. You might want to search his posts (go back maybe 3-4 years) because he had a lengthy piece on why he chose it. Good luck, hope this helps a bit. ____________________________________ Rod Here for the gear.
Dana. Posted February 23, 2011 Posted February 23, 2011 I understand. If it were me, I'd hold out for the CP300 then. +1 FWIW, Greg Dulli from The Twilight Singers uses a P200 and its main piano sound cuts through full-on rock like nothing I've ever heard.
Mizu Posted February 23, 2011 Posted February 23, 2011 I have a P250 that I used as my main practice board until I bought a baby grand. D-Bon is spot on w.r.t. the sound - it's bright and cuts through a mix. For solo play I'm not a big fan of the Yamaha samples (your taste may vary) - I started triggering Ivory with it, and thanks to the external Audio Ins can still get the semi-tactile feedback. From a mechanical perspective the P series seems to hold up very well (it should, considering the weight...). "You'll never be as good as you could have been, but you can always be better than you are." - MoKen
Steve Force Posted February 23, 2011 Posted February 23, 2011 I have owned a P200 for well over 5 years and really dig it. If you could get it for a decent price you should consider it, imo. Steve Force, Durham, North Carolina -------- My Professional Websites
SpaceNorman Posted February 23, 2011 Posted February 23, 2011 I started with a P200 ... and loved it. Upgraded to a CP300 when the P200 started having keybed issues - and love it even more! Be sure to investigate the history of the P200 you're considering. Yamaha discovered a latent defect in the keybeds that were originally installed in several models - including the P200. They were failing prematurely when the plastic that formed the hinge point at the very rear of the key essentially started to disintegrate. When a key went bad, it would go down when you pressed it ... but wouldn't return to the "ready" position. Once one key goes ... it won't be long before more keys follow in it's footsteps. During the heyday of the problem - you could contact Yamaha support with the serial # of a unit in question and they could tell you if it was affected - and would replace the keybed at no charge via their network of certified service providers. It's been several years since I encountered the problem and had mine repaired. I don't know if Yamaha is still offering the same deal to fix 'em. You'll want to know if the unit you're considering is one of the ones that were affected by the problem and if so, confirm that the keybed has already been replaced. If it hasn't, it's prety much a case of when (not IF) you'll be affected by it. The SpaceNorman
Dave Ferris Posted February 23, 2011 Posted February 23, 2011 . During the heyday of the problem - you could contact Yamaha support with the serial # of a unit in question and they could tell you if it was affected - and would replace the keybed at no charge via their network of certified service providers. It's been several years since I encountered the problem and had mine repaired. I don't know if Yamaha is still offering the same deal to fix 'em. You'll want to know if the unit you're considering is one of the ones that were affected by the problem and if so, confirm that the keybed has already been replaced. If it hasn't, it's prety much a case of when (not IF) you'll be affected by it. This is very true. My old P120 finally had to have the keybed replaced. So the 120 and 200 were probably around the same era. https://soundcloud.com/dave-ferris https://www.youtube.com/@daveferris2709 2005 NY Steinway D Yamaha AvantGrand N3X, CP88, P515
GREGHUX Posted February 23, 2011 Author Posted February 23, 2011 SpaceNorman I think I read this somewhere else, in fact I think it may have been one of your posts based on my memory of the wording. I happened to find a youtube video of the mechanism of a P200 and it is different from a P150 (I know mine well as I have had it apart many times!). I think this may have been something that started with the P200 since it was a new mechanism (and what you describe never happened to my P150 which has had a hammering). The video seemed concerned with a 'click' that happens when you press a P200 key that didn't happen with the P150 - perhaps another issue. Yes it is something I am slightly concerned with. I'd be really interested to hear what people like / didn't like about the various actions especially the change from P150 to P200.
Dana. Posted February 23, 2011 Posted February 23, 2011 Certainly one way to sidestep the issue is to get a CP300. I think it has an updated version of the main P200 piano sound.
GREGHUX Posted February 23, 2011 Author Posted February 23, 2011 Probably one for a different thread and has been done before. What are the minimum hardware requirements for the 'Synthogy Ivory' (something I've only come across today - not researched this for a while)?
GREGHUX Posted February 24, 2011 Author Posted February 24, 2011 Well I just tried a CP-5 at lunch and the sales people where doing it no favours by putting it through a cheap mono keyboard amp. Needless to say this confirmed my feeling that I like the built in speakers, even though I am sure the CP-5 would be brilliant through a couple of good quality powered speakers.
GREGHUX Posted February 24, 2011 Author Posted February 24, 2011 OK then, what would you expect to pay for a P150, P200, P250, CP300 ?
LX88 Posted February 24, 2011 Posted February 24, 2011 I had a P200 and had major problems with the keybed. It was really noisy. I think there are even examples on Youtube demonstrating what causes it. I kind of liked the sound ... I liked the "drawbar" organ too. It actually has a decent leslie sim. Also,it has a good vibraphone sample. I lucked out though and found a Yamaha Noctune in a thrift store for 45 bucks. Unbelieveable. The resonance inside the case makes a very convincing acoustic sound... one up on a P200 for sure. It's basically a CP33 with speakers and a subwoofer.
LX88 Posted February 24, 2011 Posted February 24, 2011 There is a Yamaha CP300 on Portland Craigslist as of 2/23. Also The local piano dealer has one in Salem Oregon. I am sure he would like to sell it at a reduced price. It was there the last time I looked. If the 300 is anything like my Nocturne I would go for it if you need speakers. If you could add a small sub to a CP 300 I bet it would sound pretty impressive.
GREGHUX Posted February 24, 2011 Author Posted February 24, 2011 LX88 - regarding the you tube videos I acually mentioned that I found those a couple of posts up - but thanks for confirming it!
GREGHUX Posted February 24, 2011 Author Posted February 24, 2011 BTW: I'm in Adelaide South Australia. Postage and weight would be an issue!
LX88 Posted February 24, 2011 Posted February 24, 2011 OK now I notice the location. Wasn't paying attention again.....
GREGHUX Posted February 24, 2011 Author Posted February 24, 2011 I've been in contact with Yamaha here in Australia and yes there was a known issue with the P200 keybed, but they implied that it would no longer be replaced free of charge - and the cost is just over $1,000! So I will have to leave this one alone if I cannot find out if it has been replaced - unless it has a serial number of a 'non-affected' keyboard (Yamaha may be able to tell me). Thanks for the heads up!
GREGHUX Posted February 24, 2011 Author Posted February 24, 2011 BTW: Can anyone who has a P200 and the serial number handy let me know if they had this keybed problem and the serial number?
Steve Force Posted February 25, 2011 Posted February 25, 2011 Sorry--I tried. I have my P200 so jammed into my puny man-cave project studio that to even check out the serial number would require some major work. Steve Force, Durham, North Carolina -------- My Professional Websites
GREGHUX Posted February 26, 2011 Author Posted February 26, 2011 Thanks for trying! Guys I'm keen to find out what the P200 problems were. It seems there were 2 problems. One was a noise issue that is apparrently easily fixed with a different foam strip that goes underneath the weighting mechanism. The other was stuck keys that I believe happened due to the key hinge actually breaking. How many of you experienced the latter which is a lot worse? Also if it is simply a matter of replacing individual keys rather than the entire keyboard it is not so serious as these are available separately and are inexpensive.
Sven Golly Posted February 26, 2011 Posted February 26, 2011 If you were to put a $ value on your time, at this point you've probably spent enough to have bought something new. Just sayin'...
Dave Ferris Posted February 26, 2011 Posted February 26, 2011 Like I said earlier, I'd opt for the last generation upgrade , before the new CPs, which is the CP300. Weight/schlepping issues aside, I think you'd be happy with the 300. https://soundcloud.com/dave-ferris https://www.youtube.com/@daveferris2709 2005 NY Steinway D Yamaha AvantGrand N3X, CP88, P515
Sven Golly Posted February 26, 2011 Posted February 26, 2011 Like I said earlier, I'd opt for the last generation upgrade , before the new CPs, which is the CP300. Weight/schlepping issues aside, I think you'd be happy with the 300. Agreed, especially compared to the P200... the CP300 is a MUCH better board.
GREGHUX Posted February 27, 2011 Author Posted February 27, 2011 Hi Sven. I do know where you are coming from - I value my time a lot as I have 2 young kids, a full time job and a band to manage. It also happens I actually enjoy this research process! The internet makes it very easy. Plus being an engineer myself I find the inner mechanics and how problems are resolved very interesting. I agree that the last of a series is often the one to go for - I've always said the same for cars as they have usually just ironed out ALL the bugs and thrown in every optional extra they can think of for free, just before they abandon the current series completely! So based on that philosphy, I'm leaning toward the CP300 - problem is finding one. If I were in the US that would probably be easy. The tempting thing about this P200 is that it happens to come with a full hardcase, stand and pedal and it is in mint condition, AND it is going for a song. I know the serial number now - it's 005166 (if that helps). Now if someone in the US DOES happen to have a CP300 in excellent condition and the people on this website could vouch for them, I would consider shipping one. Crazy as that may seem, a sideline of my business is importing and exporting so I have access to better shipping rates than most. It's just a possibility and it would need to be a pretty good deal since I'd have to convert it to 240VAC. Anyway I do appreciate all the feedback. Cheers
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