OT: Chart help

[Cygnus64]

I have to arrange the following. It doesn't have to be literal, I can take liberties and it hardly has to be note for note. I will have a singer, full Symphony and trio (piano bass drums).

 

1. I assume I'll give the guitar part to the piano. Do I just write chord changes and slashes? Should I write one bar of notation first? The singer and trio work together and assumedly already know this version, I just have to write it so that it's in the full score.

 

2. Any musical ideas on this? It seems pretty bare-bones as at is. I'm also concerned that if monitoring is bad and the players can't hear the piano, it's going to be sloppy. I think there needs to be a whole lot more going on with the orchestra, agree/disagree? Thanks

[video:youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccCnL8hArW8

[Joe Muscara]

There are a million and one versions of this tune out there. Was this version specifically requested?

[Cygnus64]

There are a million and one versions of this tune out there. Was this version specifically requested?

Yup.

[Dave Ferris]

Do you want the same vibe with voice & guitar in at the top ?

 

Personally I'd lose the guitar and have the piano .

 

But to answer your question, I'd say a good, reading guitarist (jokes aside , I know many) should be fine with the piano part.

 

Should you write one bar of notation for the rhythm section--guitar, piano and bass ? I wouldn't need it, unless there is a specific part or voicings you want the guitar or piano to play. This is obviously a pretty standard tune done here in a pretty standard "poppy" way. Especially If the piano player and singer are on the same page musically, I wouldn't worry about it.

 

If it were just piano and voice or guitar and voice, I'd write something like---"flowing but in time"-- with the changes and slashes like you mentioned.

 

When the orchestra comes in at the bridge, yes, I'd have the drums play a little time if you're worried about that. A light 2 & 4 on the hi-hat or even light quarters on the ride would work.

 

I'd maybe have the bass & drums come in on the second AABA with more solid but still light time...pretty standard stuff.

 

I wish she'd sing the melody. I hate when pop/rock people do that with standards.

[Cygnus64]

Do you want the same vibe with voice & guitar in at the top ?

 

Personally I'd lose the guitar and have the piano .

 

Sorry, I should have said that there won't be a guitar. I have the orchestra and trio to work with, that's it. There will be a harp, but they don't read no steenkin chord changes.

 

Especially If the piano player and singer are on the same page musically, I wouldn't worry about it.

 

This is the thing: I have to write it for the conductor to follow. The singer and trio work together, I doubt the trio will even open the book. I have to write something in the event that the show gets picked up by different orchestras (and they'll use their own trio). I have to assume that there will be sight-reading involved, even if it never comes to fruition.

[Dave Ferris]

This is the thing: I have to write it for the conductor to follow. The singer and trio work together, I doubt the trio will even open the book. I have to write something in the event that the show gets picked up by different orchestras (and they'll use their own trio). I have to assume that there will be sight-reading involved, even if it never comes to fruition.

 

Yeah, I think most of what I said still holds true, even for a new rhythm section looking at this for the first time. You just wanna be sure you notate for the piano that it's "piano & voice" alone and to keep it "in time", unless of course the singer wants more of a rubato feel.

 

The conductor should be able to follow the slashes and time of the pianist and vocalist at the top to cue the entrance at the bridge for the strings. I'd definitely have the drums in at the bridge playing the light time like I mentioned. If the time at the bridge is still too ambiguous, you can have the bass player play whole notes to re-enforce everything.

 

 

But I agree, the orchestra needs to play more then what's here on the recording, starting with the second AABA. So write away...

[Dave Ferris]

Another thought----the only time you might run into trouble is if you come across a more "legit" type pianist that needs the part written out and doesn't do well with chord changes.

 

But I find those kind of pianists very rare today, especially when you're dealing with any type of pop or Jazz content.

[Cygnus64]

But I agree, the orchestra needs to play more then what's here on the recording, starting with the second AABA. So write away...

I'm the master of overkill, no worries there.

 

Dave, I'll post a few measures of the piano part later today. If you could take a glimpse at it, I'd really appreciate it.

[Cygnus64]

Another thought----the only time you might run into trouble is if you come across a more "legit" type pianist that needs the part written out and doesn't do well with chord changes.

 

My worries exactly. The guy with the trio is a monster, he doesn't need anything except a pianny. Wht I'm trying to do is save my ass in case he gets hit by a bus the morning of the show.

 

I try to have more moving parts in the orchestra. Combos are always an unknown for me, so I usually try to have something going on in the event that someone in the combo is lost. As I said it won't be an issue for this trio, it's the trio that could follow.

[Dave Ferris]

Hmm...you know I just assume guys/gals are at the same level everywhere as here in LA or other big cities. But you're right, you never know who you might get in say Norman, Ok. They might be a great Classical/Musical Theatre type pianist but not right for interpreting chord changes on sight. And they're the ONLY person in town qualified to do the gig. In which case you could be screwed.

 

It might not be a bad idea to write out a few measures and say "ad-lib in the style of" and then continue on with the chord changes.

 

Or, you could always have two piano parts--one a minimalist outline with the chord changes and one with the first "A" written out. You could then mark "ad-lib" or "simile" on the part from there.

 

 

[Mr. Nightime]

Just for the pianist in Norman OK, you're probably better off writing out the entire piano part, and be specific. AND have the "Ad-lib in the style of" score as well.

 

The MD at my church could easily handle something like this...if it's written out. The guy can sight read better than most, but is completely lost when trying to ad-lib. In the smaller venues, you're likely to encounter players in that catagory.

 

Maybe you could have the monster player in the trio record it on the DAW, and base the piano score on that. Just a thought

 

[Cygnus64]

Maybe you could have the monster player in the trio record it on the DAW, and base the piano score on that. Just a thought

I found a midi file for it. I could easily put it in Sibelius and make it readable. As I said, it doesn't have to be a literal transciption, I would much prefer improv to keep it interesting.

 

Here's what I'm planning, at least for "improv" players. Simple enough?

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f183/KabalCD/rainbow.jpg

[Dave Ferris]

edit---forget what I said, that's not the melody but a variation. I don't have a keyboard to check things on in the house by the computer anymore. So yeah that would work fine.

 

But if I were playing the part I'd still make it a little more chordal oriented so the second part of my post still is good.

 

I would write more of a chordal half-note thing in the RH, like a Ab (add2) and maybe an inversion off that. The LH part would be fine. Same with Fm , etc.

[Cygnus64]

edit---forget what I said, that's not the melody but a variation. I don't have a keyboard to check things on in the house by the computer anymore. So yeah that would work fine.

 

But if I were playing the part I'd still make it a little more chordal oriented so the second part of my post still is good.

 

I would write more of a chordal half-note thing in the RH, like a Ab (add2) and maybe an inversion off that. The LH part would be fine. Same with Fm , etc.

 

I'm hoping and assuming that the trio pianist will do whatever they want and totally ignore anything I've written. He's a jazzer, I'm not. I'm also hoping that if I eventually get another pianist who's not a jazzer, they can at least follow in a rudimentary fashion.

 

My goal on this, since I was asked specifically for this version, is to emulate this version. I'm going to keep it relatively simple, and if the trio wants to jazz it up more, it's more than fine with me. Thanks for looking at it.

 

To be honest, this version ain't my cup of tea.

[Dave Ferris]

 

I'm hoping and assuming that the trio pianist will do whatever they want and totally ignore anything I've written. He's a jazzer, I'm not. I'm also hoping that if I eventually get another pianist who's not a jazzer, they can at least follow in a rudimentary fashion.

 

My goal on this, since I was asked specifically for this version, is to emulate this version. I'm going to keep it relatively simple, and if the trio wants to jazz it up more, it's more than fine with me. Thanks for looking at it.

 

To be honest, this version ain't my cup of tea.

 

Yes exactly. Actually the simpler the better, so it's perfect as is.

 

Not my thing either, I prefer this

[video:youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eq0EWNuR1H8

[Cygnus64]

I like this version:

Dark side of Oz

[Cygnus64]

I've decided to make 2 piano parts: one for jazzers, and one for sissies who need the notes. This way I'll be able to make mock-ups with a piano in it. I'll hide the "notes" version in Sibelius and just have the changes in the score.

[Dave Ferris]

I've decided to make 2 piano parts: one for jazzers, and one for sissies who need the notes. .

 

I think that's a good call.

 

Yeah but a Classical guy might say---and one for Jazz guys who can't read the notes....

 

Luckily I can cover both parts...did I mention I'm available? How much does it pay ?

[Mike Warren]

Luckily I can cover both parts...did I mention I'm available? How much does it pay ?

 

As long as you BYO piano.

[gryphon]

I like this version:

Dark side of Oz

Thanks for the link. I've heard the rumors but never tried it. Until tonight.

[Outkaster]

 

I'm hoping and assuming that the trio pianist will do whatever they want and totally ignore anything I've written. He's a jazzer, I'm not. I'm also hoping that if I eventually get another pianist who's not a jazzer, they can at least follow in a rudimentary fashion.

 

My goal on this, since I was asked specifically for this version, is to emulate this version. I'm going to keep it relatively simple, and if the trio wants to jazz it up more, it's more than fine with me. Thanks for looking at it.

 

To be honest, this version ain't my cup of tea.

 

Yes exactly. Actually the simpler the better, so it's perfect as is.

 

Not my thing either, I prefer this

[video:youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eq0EWNuR1H8

 

Unreal version. Very emotional. I have played it in Eb and F.

[Dave Ferris]

Unreal version. Very emotional. I have played it in Eb and F.

 

Yeah for me it doesn't get much better then that.

 

OT alert--Viewers of that recent thread about all fingers being equal would do well to take note of this KJ treatment.

Particularly how he sustains the melody while moving the inner voices --very similar how a Classical player might play Bach for example..

It takes a lot of finger independence, strength, control and lyrical sense to pull that altogether. Piano technique isn't just about playing fast. End of short sermon.

 

Yes the standard original key is Eb. A lot of RnB/pop chicks I work with do it in Bb. It's more of a Whitney Houston vibe when it's up there though.

 

I have a Tommy Flannagan LP where he plays all Harold Arlen tunes. He does it in A of all keys. He blows over it too. I can only guess that maybe Ella used to sing it in that key and it held a special place for him. Otherwise, A ?!!

[kanker.]

I thought in jazz you were only supposed to play in A in bars 12-16 of I Love You?!?

[MAJUSCULE]

Unreal version. Very emotional. I have played it in Eb and F.

 

All the more crazy because he actually plays through audience noise!

[moj]

I heard that Jarrett canceled a show because his piano had a headache.

[Dave Ferris]

I thought in jazz you were only supposed to play in A in bars 12-16 of I Love You?!?

 

Well there's also the bridges to the Monk tune Bye-ya, the original Milestones, first few bars of Lazy Bird and last bridge section of Pensativa.

On the standards of Polka Dots & Moonbeams, Emily, How About You and I'm Old Fashioned.

The Chick tune, You're Everything, that's all over the place though.

And when you get a pia guitarist who wants to stay true to the original Brazilian/guitar key of A on Jobim's Triste instead of Bb--security, take this man away and bring me a Tenor player

[SK]

I thought in jazz you were only supposed to play in A in bars 12-16 of I Love You?!?

Not if you use the transpose button.

[Cygnus64]

Luckily I can cover both parts...did I mention I'm available?

I would love that! There are quite a few people around this dump that I would like to work with and you're one of them. It's not impossible: the performer has an excellent shot of selling this to symphony pops all over. They are well known regionally and have a big following. Bonus- my arrangements are gonna ride this kid to the TOP, baby.

 

How much does it pay ?

 

Ouch. Well, if they get the LA Phil or Hollywood Bowl Orch, those pay very well. If they get one of the other 47 orchs in the area, probably pretty crappy.

[Cygnus64]

I like this version:

Dark side of Oz

Thanks for the link. I've heard the rumors but never tried it. Until tonight.

I didnt see any big revelations. Then again, I'm guessing that one has to be 17 and really high to see the connection.

[Mike Warren]

I didnt see any big revelations.

 

+1

 

Then again, I'm guessing that one has to be 17 and really high to see the connection.

 

Ah, I think you're on to something there.