Hand independence and the importance of breathing...

[Sundown]

Hey all,

 

I was recently watched the Daniel Abrams Homespun Video ( Practicing and Performing: A Pianists Guide ). It's a great video in many ways, but he talks about two concepts that I find interesting...

 

As keyboard players, we probably don't think about breathing very often. After all, that's for horn players and wind musicians. But he talks a lot about the importance of separating your breathing from your playing, and the role that plays with hand independence (and overall success). It's something that will take a lot of practice on my part, as I tend to breathe relative to the tempo of the tune I'm playing, which is *not* the right approach.

 

The other concept I found interesting was the idea of learning and practicing each hand separately. In other words, when you are learning a new piece of music, learn each hand separately before playing them together. That's very different from how I normally practice. He used Chopin's "Fantasy Impromptu" as an example (with the very challenging left hand / right hand rhythmic differences).

 

If you haven't seen the video, I would recommend it. The guy is a wealth of knowledge, and he has a great attitude about teaching and music.

 

What are your thoughts on breathing and learning each hand separately?

 

[johnchop]

Learning each hand separately... I pretty much figured this was the traditional approach. No teacher of mine ever suggested otherwise. (Try a Bach three-part invention/fugue: 3 voices going at once. You'll wish you had a third hand to practice that.)

 

More important--and something I learned a bit too late--was to play at a tempo where you CANNOT screw up, i.e. not embedding mistakes into your physical memory of a tune, which you'd then have to unlearn.

 

As for breathing, I never considered it, or whether it matched tempo. I guess I'm not clear on the point w.r.t. hand independence.

 

-John

[Zydecat]

 

 

More important--and something I learned a bit too late--was to play at a tempo where you CANNOT screw up, i.e. not embedding mistakes into your physical memory of a tune, which you'd then have to unlearn.

 

 

+1 - break it down and get it right.

 

 

[Joe Muscara]

One teacher once told me to try a piece hands together at first, then break it into hands separately. That way you can see what you can do and what you need to work on. You may even be able to play it hands together from the start depending on your level and the complexity of the piece.

 

The breathing thing is interesting. I'd like to know more about what he says regarding that.

[Ken Beaumont]

Learning and practicing hands separately was the first thing I had to learn to do. Because of muscle memory, your hands will actually 'learn' to do the same mistake over and over. But try slowing down and concentrating on doing it so you can play it at tempo one hand with your eyes closed. Then work in the right hand and Voila! your hands remember the correct way. I heard much about proper breathing with wind instruments, I don't remember being taught about it on the piano.

[Threadslayer]

Hey all,

 

 

As keyboard players, we probably don't think about breathing very often.

 

This sounds to me like a classic case of over thinking the problem...

[JpScoey]

... we probably don't think about breathing very often.

If you have to THINK about breathing, you've probably got serious problems !

 

 

On the learning each hand seperately - that's the way I was tought, & it's definitely whorthwhile.

[dongna]

I've been playing for 40-some-odd years, and can honestly say I've never given breathing a moments thought. It's an involuntary action... no thought required.

 

As for learning one hand at a time, I've done that ever since I can remember. Can't remember if my piano teacher as a kid had me do that (probably), or if it just made sense to me on my own. I'm currently giving piano lessons to my 9-year old, and I'm constantly writing in his practice notebook "practice hands separately, then together".

[Suppport Guy]

From a post at the piano world forums...

 

Madame Chaloff was a legend around Boston, for being not only an amazing pianist and teacher, but also a kind of spiritual teacher. She taught a method of piano technique that had been passed down through generations of pianists, many of whom were quite well known, including Mozart, Czerny, Beethoven, etc. The technique involves using the breath, with weightless arms, and reminds me very much of a kind of martial art, like a miniature karate/kung fu, for the piano. The object is to create a singing tone on the piano. Madame Chaloff had many illustrious students, including Keith Jarrett, Herbie Hancock, George Shearing, Kenny Werner, Steve Kuhn, and many others...

 

The mantra was.."The piano is a wind instrument"...

 

here is one link...Google for more:

http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Forum/37/topic/001165/Number/0/site_id/1#import

[Sundown]

 

Daniel Abrams could explain it a lot better than I can, but I'll try...

 

When you know a difficult part is coming up in a piece of music, the natural tendency is to hold your breath. And what happens then? The likelihood of fouling it up increases. By practicing the technique of separating your breathing from your playing, you'll reach a place where your breathing won't be tied to the music, and you won't be inclined to get tense. It's partially about relaxation, but it's also about practicing a four count breath regardless of the tempo or musical complexity. It requires practice, but after mastering it, you won't have to think about it. You'll breathe naturally, independent of the music.

 

Personally, I'm not there yet. Not even close...

 

The hand separation piece is a bit more difficult to explain. But imagine that you are playing an identical phrase with each hand simultaneously (1-2-3-4-5 or 5-4-3-2-1). If you were to consciously try to synchronize your hands with that common phrase, your breathing will be affected, and you'll soon gasp for air. I don't know the "why" behind it, but I suspect that the portion of the brain responsible for synchronizing the hands is the same part responsible for breathing. Just a guess...

 

So from his standpoint, the natural solution is to keep your hands separate, and to treat them as totally separate entities.

 

The breathing thing may sound a bit far fetched, but you have to see the video to get the proper explanation. Given his background and resumé, I think he knows what he's talking about.

 

[SK]

From a post at the piano world forums...

 

Madame Chaloff was a legend around Boston, for being not only an amazing pianist and teacher, but also a kind of spiritual teacher. She taught a method of piano technique that had been passed down through generations of pianists, many of whom were quite well known, including Mozart, Czerny, Beethoven, etc. The technique involves using the breath, with weightless arms, and reminds me very much of a kind of martial art, like a miniature karate/kung fu, for the piano. The object is to create a singing tone on the piano. Madame Chaloff had many illustrious students, including Keith Jarrett, Herbie Hancock, George Shearing, Kenny Werner, Steve Kuhn, and many others...

 

The mantra was.."The piano is a wind instrument"...

 

here is one link...Google for more:

http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Forum/37/topic/001165/Number/0/site_id/1#import

for Madame Chaloff.

[JpScoey]

The technique involves using the breath, here is one link...Google for more:

http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Forum/37/topic/001165/Number/0/site_id/1#import

 

Lifted from the link above -

 

"...she died while i was studying with her. I got there just in time! "

 

 

Looks like the old 'breathing technique' stopped working for her.

[SpaceNorman]

I'm on a 54 year long roll with the breathing technique I've been using. I'm gonna stick to what I know's been working - regardless of whatever the experts tell me. There are some things that just ain't worth messing with.