Blues Rock settings for Amp

[RumpleCragstan]

Hey guys,

 

I've been gone for almost a year now, life got hard and I had to even go as far as selling my amp just to survive. Playing unplugged (when I had the time) has sucked, but now life has settled down and I've even managed to buy myself a VoxVT15 (which I'm very happy with, almost to the point that I'm glad I sold my Cube15). Its damn good to be back.

 

Even when I had an amp, I never really learned the science of all the damn knob turning. This amp makes it even harder because its got all these different amp models on it as well.

 

I just want a ballsy blues rock tone, for probably the last 6 months or so I've really been into Silvertide and thats the sort of tone I'm looking to get. Nick Perri is a hard guitarist to track down tone tips for.

 

What suggestions would guys have for me as far as how I should twist and turn these infernal knobs?

[Electric Biscuit]

1. buy low-wattage tube amp

2. tweak to threshold between clean and distorted

3. profit

[Bartholomew]

Please don't be insulted - this probably applies to most players - look at it from this point of view:

 

You don't have the speakers, amp, equipment, tech guys or the chops to sound like a player who is doing it 100% of the time. You also don't have the studio experience of learning from and working with top-notch producers and arrangers plus don't have the gig experience.

 

It seems that very few of us are developing our own ears, style or sound - everyone wants to be a copycat player in their bedroom. Twisting knobs isn't really the answer.

 

Get out there into the jam clubs or whatever and develop your hands by playing live with other players.

 

When you finally learn to do it right that good sound you want will happen for you.

[Caevan O'Shite]

Hmn; with your amp, start experimenting with its Boutique OD, Express Train, and UK 25TH models. (Its Deluxe Tweed, Tweed 2x12, Tweed 4x10, Super 4x10, AC15, AC15TB, AC30TB, AC30HH, AC30BM, AC50CP2, and even UK '80s models all should hold promise of potentially ballsy blues-rock tones, as well.)

 

Set the Power Level control's output-wattage mid or low, as suits your volume requirements, and crank the Master three-quarters or even all the way up; take advantage of its hybrid tube-driven SS output-section. Run the Volume high, and the Gain medium-low, medium, to medium-high; settings for these two knobs will vary from one amp-model to another. You must find the balancing-point between the Master, Gain, and Volume for each model; note that the Master is NOT programmable, but "global" and always on at whatever the knob is set to. Turn the Middle up quite high, perhaps even all the way up, with Treble and Bass to taste.

 

Use your guitar's volume-control and your picking-hand dynamics to "play the amp", varying from clean to cleanish-overdrive to overdrive to distortion as you bring up the guitar's volume-knob and play softer to harder. Roll it back down, and it's cleaner again when you want it.

 

Have the amp turned up to the point where it will be louder than you actually want for playing chords when the guitar's volume-knob is all the way up; this will give you a range of headroom, dynamics and cleaner to meaner overdrive tones, AND when it's nearly or all the way up, it will yield fat single-note and double-stop "lead" tones for solos and fills.

 

Add a little reverb, and also a single-repeat "slapback" echo (zero regeneration/feedback delay @ 50 to 120 ms) with its Tape Echo model.

 

Experiment with a little of it's "Comp" compressor squeeze.

 

EDIT: I found these 'sites and 'pages that you might find helpful, as well:

 

Valvetronix Preset -> Rock / Blues Overdrive : Rock / Blues Overdrive

 

VOX TONEROOM: Browsing VOX tones by type (Valvetronix VT15)

 

[RumpleCragstan]

Ah Caevan, you're always a huge help!

 

Thanks so much! I'll take your tips to heart. I had already found that the Express Train setting was working well for me, so I was starting on the right track. Everything else has been duly noted and I'm fiddling as I type this.

 

And for note, I know I'm not going to get tones comparable to what I'm hearing through the track; thats just silly. Especially with a little 15 watt amp like mine.

 

And I'm not trying to copycat anybody either, I really want to find my own spot. The thing is, I know the general area that I want it to be... now that I've got some tips I'll fiddle around in that area and do my own thing.

[picker]

Another tip, a little more vague but possibly helpful;

don't go for distorted lead tones on the patches you would normally think of as "distorted lead", i.e., Marshall,Boogie, etc., for a bluesy lead tone. Instead, try pushing the so-called "clean" modes(Fender, Vox, etc) into distortion, and maybe even try using the "distortion" models for cleaner tones, backing off on the preamp gain and pushing the master.

I make the suggestion because I have always found modeling tones too much of what they say they are. The cleans are sterile, and the crunchier stuff is overblown and artificial sounding. The old blues guys used combo amps and pushed 'em hard. The middle period guys, like Buddy Guy and Albert Collins used bigger combos, but pushed 'em hard anyway.

Tell us how it all works out.

[Caevan O'Shite]

Glad ya liked that. Be sure to let us know how things work out for ya, and toss us some clips or even vids if ya can; keep us posted...

 

"...Express Train...right track..."

 

Such a punishing tone...

 

I bet you can cop a sound similar to my Fuchs Lucky 7 head with that Express Train model (based on a Ken Fisher Trainwreck, which the Lucky 7 is partly inspired by) on your Vox VT15. I bet that my Lucky 7's 7 all-tube watts are still louder than your Vox's 15 tube-driven Solid-State watts, too!

 

Another tip, a little more vague but possibly helpful;

don't go for distorted lead tones on the patches you would normally think of as "distorted lead", i.e., Marshall,Boogie, etc., for a bluesy lead tone. Instead, try pushing the so-called "clean" modes(Fender, Vox, etc) into distortion, and maybe even try using the "distortion" models for cleaner tones, backing off on the preamp gain and pushing the master.

I make the suggestion because I have always found modeling tones too much of what they say they are. The cleans are sterile, and the crunchier stuff is overblown and artificial sounding. The old blues guys used combo amps and pushed 'em hard. The middle period guys, like Buddy Guy and Albert Collins used bigger combos, but pushed 'em hard anyway.

Tell us how it all works out.

 

Excellent ideas. I have found much of that to often be the case.

 

Experiment with putting any pedals you might have kickin' around in front of that amp, too; I get a LOT of miles out of various pedals in front of my digital-modelers.

[RumpleCragstan]

I have always found modeling tones too much of what they say they are. The cleans are sterile, and the crunchier stuff is overblown and artificial sounding.

 

From my limited experience with modeling amps, I have to agree. Even though I'm a hard rock guy I always found myself shying away from the crunchier settings in favor of the softer tones though they weren't quite what I wanted.

 

It wasn't until I explored what you guys suggested, cranking the volume up and turning the wattage down to get natural distortion, that I actually found the tone I was seeking.

 

Experiment with putting any pedals you might have kickin' around in front of that amp, too; I get a LOT of miles out of various pedals in front of my digital-modelers.

 

I've just got a Zoom G1 that I've been mostly using as a tuner, but I'll give a second look at the manual and play around to see what else I can do with it.

[Jasco]

Probably not too helpful, but for blues rock tones I've got to agree with the guy that recommended buying a tube amp and turning it up.

 

$0.02

[Caevan O'Shite]

Glad that's workin' out for ya, Rumplemintz!

 

Probably not too helpful, but for blues rock tones I've got to agree with the guy that recommended buying a tube amp and turning it up.

 

$0.02

 

In general, I agree, but he should be able to run what he's got and get some GREAT Blues-Rock tones. While not a true/pure tube-amp, it does use a 12AX7 tube to drive the SS output-section, in a way similar to the driver/phase-inverter tube-circuit in all-tube tube-amps; and this tube-driver network can be pushed hard for compression and overdrive, especially when its SS output-section is set to lower wattage.

 

On top of all THAT, tone really is largely in your hands, especially Blues-Rock tone. I personally MUCH prefer this tube-amp or that pedal, etc., but I get compliments on my tone all the time no matter what I'm plugged into at the time! Last Friday night at a little jam at a bar, playing direct into a very modest PA via a digital-modeler set to a completely clean, dry tone, I had barely begun playing when the rhythm-guitarist/singer (himself a VERY excellent player) turned around, smiled, and exclaimed, "hey, sounds like B.B. King, man!"

[pinkjimiphoton]

Hmn; with your amp, start experimenting with its Boutique OD, Express Train, and UK 25TH models. (Its Deluxe Tweed, Tweed 2x12, Tweed 4x10, Super 4x10, AC15, AC15TB, AC30TB, AC30HH, AC30BM, AC50CP2, and even UK '80s models all should hold promise of potentially ballsy blues-rock tones, as well.)

 

Set the Power Level control's output-wattage mid or low, as suits your volume requirements, and crank the Master three-quarters or even all the way up; take advantage of its hybrid tube-driven SS output-section. Run the Volume high, and the Gain medium-low, medium, to medium-high; settings for these two knobs will vary from one amp-model to another. You must find the balancing-point between the Master, Gain, and Volume for each model; note that the Master is NOT programmable, but "global" and always on at whatever the knob is set to. Turn the Middle up quite high, perhaps even all the way up, with Treble and Bass to taste.

 

Use your guitar's volume-control and your picking-hand dynamics to "play the amp", varying from clean to cleanish-overdrive to overdrive to distortion as you bring up the guitar's volume-knob and play softer to harder. Roll it back down, and it's cleaner again when you want it.

 

Have the amp turned up to the point where it will be louder than you actually want for playing chords when the guitar's volume-knob is all the way up; this will give you a range of headroom, dynamics and cleaner to meaner overdrive tones, AND when it's nearly or all the way up, it will yield fat single-note and double-stop "lead" tones for solos and fills.

 

Add a little reverb, and also a single-repeat "slapback" echo (zero regeneration/feedback delay @ 50 to 120 ms) with its Tape Echo model.

 

Experiment with a little of it's "Comp" compressor squeeze.

 

EDIT: I found these 'sites and 'pages that you might find helpful, as well:

 

Valvetronix Preset -> Rock / Blues Overdrive : Rock / Blues Overdrive

 

VOX TONEROOM: Browsing VOX tones by type (Valvetronix VT15)

 

 

 

mega applause breaks out from the dark side of the moon....

 

caevan, right on man. tell him the truth.

too many peeps think everything gotta be on 10...and that's why they all sound like poo....and worse, the SAME poo.

 

i am not familiar with the vox amp modeling, but one thing i've found pretty much universally to be true, is to run lower-gain or medium gain models, not the high gain ones. the high gain is too fuzzy, and has no dynamics...like most things amp related, better to push the amp harder at a lower gain setting for more tonal control.

 

best of luck mate.

[Caevan O'Shite]

 

(Imagining Muddy waters singing, "It's that SAME POO came out cha... BUDDIES amps..." )

 

i am not familiar with the vox amp modeling, but one thing i've found pretty much universally to be true, is to run lower-gain or medium gain models, not the high gain ones. the high gain is too fuzzy, and has no dynamics...like most things amp related, better to push the amp harder at a lower gain setting for more tonal control.

 

Y' know, one thing that turned out to be really cool on my DigiTech GNX4, is its digital-model of the Voodoo Lab 'Sparkle Drive' pedal, which is effectively a tweaked vintage TS808 Tube Screamer style overdrive with an added control for balancing and blending in a direct, straight clean signal.

 

Used with compression and a clean digital amp-model, it can be made to sound very smooth, almost like there's no distortion or overdrive, just fat and warm and smoooooth, as well as preserving the initial attack. Makes me want a REAL Voodoo Lab Sparkle Drive.

 

 

On my Johnson J-Station digital-modeler, I got some great tones by mixing its digital-model of a '70s vintage Marshall Super Lead with a digital-model of a Hiwatt/Fane 4x12 cab. Some noise-gate based "Slow-Gear" envelope-controlled auto-volume-swell went GREAT with it. I'll trot out this little snippet, a forum oldie (I can just hear a collective groan out there!) as an example-sample for ya:

 

Les Paul w/ P-90s > J-Station (direct- no amps, speakers, or mics)

 

(Two guitar tracks- one clean, the other overdriven; both the same guitar.)

[RumpleCragstan]

too many peeps think everything gotta be on 10...and that's why they all sound like poo....and worse, the SAME poo.

 

This is the issue I've largely found with googling amp settings, and why I inevitably came back to this board for answers. It seems like so many guitarists out there see all the knobs simply as on/off switches and not the sliding scales that they are.

[Jasco]

On top of all THAT, tone really is largely in your hands, especially Blues-Rock tone.

 

Couldn't agree more.

 

Don't like your tone, work on how you play.

 

Of course, that's not the instant gratification solution most folks want though.

 

[Jasco]

too many peeps think everything gotta be on 10...and that's why they all sound like poo....and worse, the SAME poo.

 

This is the issue I've largely found with googling amp settings, and why I inevitably came back to this board for answers. It seems like so many guitarists out there see all the knobs simply as on/off switches and not the sliding scales that they are.

 

I'd agree so long as your still discussing modeling.

 

With real tube amps I'd tend to be a little more extreme about 'diming' them.

 

Years ago, when I was still learning how to use tube amps, 3 of my favorite players - Dave Beegle, Buddy Guy, and Phil Brown, each used one of my tube amps at different gigs/times, and each of them set the controls exactly the same - everything all the way up except the bass control all the way down.

 

Each player sounded great, and also sounded unique (all three were playing strats, by the way).

 

Very educational for me.

 

 

[pinkjimiphoton]

i guess it depends on what ya wanna do...if you use your guitar's volume knob(s) and some dynamics, yah, diming stuff can be effective...really depends on the volume you're playing at, the kind of pickups (imho strats can use higher gain a lot better than say a gibson), which input you use, etc...

most of my favorite tones tho come with the preamp and power amp volume controls pretty close to each other.

if the amp is barely on, hell yah, crank up the preamp...

but if you're playing loud rocknroll with a marshall, and ya sound fuzzy and inconsequential all too easily. the more arse ya give the amp, the less preamp gain is needed if ya want it to be really fat sounding.

i totally agree, modeling kind of amps sound like poo if dimed in most cases....tube amps breathe a lot more if driven louder with less distortion. try it.

 

but...as with all things like this...it really comes down to the player, their attack, their muting even, their fingers..

everybody's different like that i guess.

it's all good.

[maxtheaxe]

I agree...there are SO many variables involved, even between identical rigs...they just all have their own indentity & way of sounding.

 

One of the things I've learned over the years is, on whatever amp you use, try to get a feel for how the midrange control interacts with the bass & treble, and also assume that anything less than full-on dimed (on your tone controls) is going to be attenuation.

 

Then be prepared to throw your favorite settings out the window when you go from getting the perfect tone where you practice, to getting the perfect tone with a band in a live situation, because they are usually in no way similar.

[picker]

Rumple, have you founds the tones you were looking for at the start of this thread?

[Caevan O'Shite]

I agree...there are SO many variables involved, even between identical rigs...they just all have their own indentity & way of sounding.

 

One of the things I've learned over the years is, on whatever amp you use, try to get a feel for how the midrange control interacts with the bass & treble, and also assume that anything less than full-on dimed (on your tone controls) is going to be attenuation.

 

Then be prepared to throw your favorite settings out the window when you go from getting the perfect tone where you practice, to getting the perfect tone with a band in a live situation, because they are usually in no way similar.

 

Hey, maxtheaxe- troo dat- and welcome to the GPF!

[Caevan O'Shite]

Years ago, when I was still learning how to use tube amps, 3 of my favorite players - Dave Beegle, Buddy Guy, and Phil Brown, each used one of my tube amps at different gigs/times, and each of them set the controls exactly the same - everything all the way up except the bass control all the way down.

 

Each player sounded great, and also sounded unique (all three were playing strats, by the way).

 

Very educational for me.

 

GREAT story, and wise observations, Jasco.

 

I'd bet that they each made good use of the Volume and Tone controls and pickup selector-switches on their Strats, too.

[Johnnie Black]

A basic "blues rock" EQ is to have the mids up high, and the bass wound back a little. In a typical blues rock situation the bass player has a big presence, so you wanna leave him/her plenty of room down low - it's a very different vibe to modern metal or contemporary radio rock when the guitars take up heaps of what's traditionally the bass player's sonic space. Tweak the treble from there.. you generally want a warm tone, which is somewhere between shrill and dull.

 

It might occur to you that these guidelines are all rather imprecise, and extremely subjective - and you'd be right.

 

You want to run enough gain that you can pick hard and it breaks up nicely, but not so much that you can't clean up by picking softly.

 

Lastly, try not to obsess too much about the settings. I find those setting-rich modelling amps can take up so much of your time with all the tweaking that they distract you from actually playing. Anyway, just mess around with it and have some fun!

[Caevan O'Shite]

A basic "blues rock" EQ is to have the mids up high, and the bass wound back a little. In a typical blues rock situation the bass player has a big presence, so you wanna leave him/her plenty of room down low - it's a very different vibe to modern metal or contemporary radio rock when the guitars take up heaps of what's traditionally the bass player's sonic space. Tweak the treble from there.. you generally want a warm tone, which is somewhere between shrill and dull.

 

It might occur to you that these guidelines are all rather imprecise, and extremely subjective - and you'd be right.

 

You want to run enough gain that you can pick hard and it breaks up nicely, but not so much that you can't clean up by picking softly.

 

Lastly, try not to obsess too much about the settings. I find those setting-rich modelling amps can take up so much of your time with all the tweaking that they distract you from actually playing. Anyway, just mess around with it and have some fun!

 

GREAT points, and well said! Particularly bringing up the matter of sitting within the mix of A BAND- and specifically A BLUES BAND- and not muddying-up the overall sound and stepping all over the bassist's range.

 

'MORE playing/LESS obsessive-tweaking' is also very, very good advice to keep in mind. Good to bring some real-world perspective to the subject!

 

I myself tend to get very heavy-handed with the lows and do to much tweaking... D'oh!

 

WELCOME to the GPF, Johnnie Black.