Sam Mullins Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 What is the deal with keyboardists putting duct tape over the manufacturer's name on the back of their keyboards? It seems like about half the bands I see on television do this. It's definitely more prevalent in the rock/alternative crowd than pop, hiphop or country....but I've seen it in all genres. I once asked the keyboardist for a low-level touring act about it and he said "Unless they are willing to have an endorsement deal with me, why should I provide advertising for them?" The guy was a great player and seemed like a nice person, so I didn't say that I thought this was kind of funny. It's not like he was a house hold name (even if your household subscribed to keyboard for 30 years). I'm sure Korg and Nord had no idea who he was. So is that the primary reasoning for this? Or is just an aesthetic/fashion thing? I was going to post about this a couple years ago and then the practice seemed to die down. But it seems like it is back with a vengeance now. I don't see guitar players trying to hide what ax they are playing. Is there some hidden resentment toward keyboard manufacturers because instruments become obsolete so quickly? (unlike say a Gibson Les Paul Custom) These companies are not Exxon or Enron...just small companies trying to innovate and make a decent profit. So what do you think? If you do this, can you explain your rationale? No judgements here...just curious. Yamaha CK88, Arturia Keylab 61 MkII, Moog Sub 37, Yamaha U1 Upright, Casio CT-S500, Mac Logic/Mainstage, iPad Camelot, Spacestation V.3, QSC K10.2, JBL EON One Compact www.stickmanor.com There's a thin white line between fear and fury - Stickman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cygnus64 Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 I once asked the keyboardist for a low-level touring act about it and he said "Unless they are willing to have an endorsement deal with me, why should I provide advertising for them?" Some aren't allowed I think. If you sign an endorsement deal with Yamaha, I don't think you can have "Korg" written on the back of your Keyboard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Beaumont Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 Could it be endorsement contracts that specify you can't display competing products? Also if you watch TV you will notice a lot of apple computers, where the apple logo is covered or disguised to look like a pear. Boards: Kurzweil SP-6, Roland FA-08, VR-09, DeepMind 12 Modules: Korg Radias, Roland D-05, Bk7-m & Sonic Cell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Mullins Posted January 19, 2011 Author Share Posted January 19, 2011 Ahhhh...I hadn't even thought about the competetive endorsement angle. Dang, you guys are smart Yamaha CK88, Arturia Keylab 61 MkII, Moog Sub 37, Yamaha U1 Upright, Casio CT-S500, Mac Logic/Mainstage, iPad Camelot, Spacestation V.3, QSC K10.2, JBL EON One Compact www.stickmanor.com There's a thin white line between fear and fury - Stickman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksoper Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 Any time I played tv the crew would tape the logos. I left them that way. The Grand Ole Opry had a deal with Yamaha for the grand and the Motif. When I brought in a Roland VK7 the logo got taped. @Sam: what do you consider a low-level touring act? I'm curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cygnus64 Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 I think it was Alicia Keys who was playing a Jupiter 8 and had "Yamaha" written on the back? I found it, Yamaha is written on the top: clonk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ITGITC Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 Sam: what do you consider a low-level touring act? I'm curious. http://media.ebaumsworld.com/mediaFiles/picture/729917/80584570.jpg I don't know if they tour, but they're low (to the ground). "Music expresses that which cannot be put into words and that which cannot remain silent." - Victor Hugo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Mullins Posted January 19, 2011 Author Share Posted January 19, 2011 Any time I played tv the crew would tape the logos. I left them that way. The Grand Ole Opry had a deal with Yamaha for the grand and the Motif. When I brought in a Roland VK7 the logo got taped. @Sam: what do you consider a low-level touring act? I'm curious. This is making more sense now...I just didn't think that many keyboard players would be doing this for the reason cited by the guy I talked to. In this case, by "low-level", I meant an act that tours pretty constantly all over the US, but plays at clubs and small theatres. It was actually Willy Porter (singer-songwriter from Wisconsin) and I don't remember the name of the keyboard player. Hopefully if he is on here, he isn't too offended. He was a fantastic player and if talent were the only pre-requisite, he deserved an endorsement! (unfortunately that's not the world we live in) Yamaha CK88, Arturia Keylab 61 MkII, Moog Sub 37, Yamaha U1 Upright, Casio CT-S500, Mac Logic/Mainstage, iPad Camelot, Spacestation V.3, QSC K10.2, JBL EON One Compact www.stickmanor.com There's a thin white line between fear and fury - Stickman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonysounds Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 Regarding television, primarily the logos are taped up to avoid camera focus issues (the logos and finishes reflect light back at the camera); secondarily, it is a politics issue, where no corporate logos are advertised without compensation. Youll even see shirts blurred out for this reason, and generally youll get a pre-taping instruction not to wear clothing with huge corporate logos. I have a couple of small endorsement deals, and while none of them have non-compete clauses, it certainly makes sense to consider the old adage why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free? But I was covering up keyboard logos years before I ever thought to try and obtain any endorsements. First, unlike guitars where the logos are painted on the headstock and therefore are small and unobtrusive, keyboards are veritable billboards, and most keyboard companies take full advantage of this. Without mentioning any names, those brand and product names are huge, and in some cases, completely distracting. Nothing worse than seeing photos of the band and the product Im playing demands more attention than the musicians. I find it tacky, tackier than me taping my logos. I used to toy with the brand names, making Roland POLAND or OLA, Hammond into HAM, and Yamaha into AHA; then I would replace the logos with bumper stickers saying YOUR AD HERE. I thought the same thing: Why should I advertise for free? Then it dawned on me: I gig anywhere from 100-175 shows a year (depending on the band Im in and whether I was touring), why not get some $$$ for showing off their gear? I still think the logo sizes are tacky, and sometimes I still use bumper stickers. In addition to Your Ad Here (one of my favorites), Ill also throw up a People Before Profit, or STFU. But most of the time, I just black stuff out. Hitting "Play" does NOT constitute live performance. -Me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cygnus64 Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 This is making more sense now...I just didn't think that many keyboard players would be doing this for the reason cited by the guy I talked to. I'm sure that a good amount of "imitation" is going on, a matter of "coolness" by imitating the people that have to do it for a legitimate reason. I'm also guessing there's a bit of jealousy in some cases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Mullins Posted January 19, 2011 Author Share Posted January 19, 2011 Without mentioning any names, those brand and product names are huge, and in some cases, completely distracting. Nothing worse than seeing photos of the band and the product Im playing demands more attention than the musicians. I find it tacky, tackier than me taping my logos. Yeah, they are pretty obnoxious. But how am I supposed to get GAS over equipment if I can't see the manufacturer? Nord probably has the best idea with their signature look...very reconizable without seeing the logo (like a Gibson Les Paul Custom) Yamaha CK88, Arturia Keylab 61 MkII, Moog Sub 37, Yamaha U1 Upright, Casio CT-S500, Mac Logic/Mainstage, iPad Camelot, Spacestation V.3, QSC K10.2, JBL EON One Compact www.stickmanor.com There's a thin white line between fear and fury - Stickman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Muscara Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 I think tony's reasoning is funny. Here's why. Guitar amps and kick drums. "I'm so crazy, I don't know this is impossible! Hoo hoo!" - Daffy Duck "The good news is that once you start piano you never have to worry about getting laid again. More time to practice!" - MOI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adan Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 I've always done it. It's "aesthetics," for lack of a better word. Unless you're endorsed, there's no good reason why the audiences' eyes should spend a fraction of a second reading the brand of your keyboard. I'd probably make an exception if it was vintage and looked good, but no examples of that come to mind right now. Gigging: Crumar Mojo 61, Hammond SKPro Home: Vintage Vibe 64 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real MC Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 I knew a guitar player who taped over the logo of all his gear, even his rack components. He never appeared on television, he was just anal about copycats. Can't blame him, he certainly had much better tone than most guitarists I've heard. When groups tour, many of them put decoy guitar amp stacks behind them to hide the real amps they use. This keeps copycats off their trail. ZZTop has been doing this for decades, and I've even seen pics on the net of Marshall amp stacks that were hollow shells when viewed from behind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mate stubb Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 I build my own equipment, and label it using vintage appliance stuff. I've had speaker cabinets by Speed Queen and Pontiac Firebird. I can highly recommend the practice. Moe --- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frogmonkey Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 I think Tony said it well. I have an aversion to advertising in general. We are so bombarded by corporate logos, that we don't even notice any more. My music, which I work so hard to produce and perform and put my heart and soul into, is not the place for advertisement. Roland has never done me any favors. Yamaha has never done me any favors. Dave Smith Instruments has done me a few favors, though, and only the bright LED's get covered with tape on that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Mullins Posted January 19, 2011 Author Share Posted January 19, 2011 When groups tour, many of them put decoy guitar amp stacks behind them to hide the real amps they use. This keeps copycats off their trail. ZZTop has been doing this for decades, and I've even seen pics on the net of Marshall amp stacks that were hollow shells when viewed from behind. Nice...a disinformation campaign. In effect they are saying "If you really like how we sound, use Marshall amps and then be disappointed." I guess you could look at it the other way: assuming ZZtop had some custom work done by someone or is using some boutique model. This person (or small company) probably would love more work and could use the exposure. Yamaha CK88, Arturia Keylab 61 MkII, Moog Sub 37, Yamaha U1 Upright, Casio CT-S500, Mac Logic/Mainstage, iPad Camelot, Spacestation V.3, QSC K10.2, JBL EON One Compact www.stickmanor.com There's a thin white line between fear and fury - Stickman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Mizzell Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 I guess you could look at it the other way: assuming ZZtop had some custom work done by someone or is using some boutique model. This person (or small company) probably would love more work and could use the exposure. That's what interviews in "Rock Star Guitar" are for, rite? "Hey Bob, you've got a great tone going there. What gear do you use?" Or in our case, "Keyboard" ... "Hey Bob, what's giving your roadies a hernia this year?" Les Mizzell ---------------------------------------------- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 When I first began playing professionally, I covered the Roland logo on my RD-150 with a home-made sticker with my website URL on it.... haven't bothered since, though, I have to say... Yamaha: P515, CP88, Genos 1, HX1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Beaumont Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 A lot of those faux pas amps are for show. When your playing hard rock and known for loud concerts, you naturally are expected to have a wall of amps. The audience wouldn't be as impressed with a pedal board or single amp directly going into the PA. Pop acts are worse, ever notice how many keyboards and guitars aren't plugged in on Leno? Boards: Kurzweil SP-6, Roland FA-08, VR-09, DeepMind 12 Modules: Korg Radias, Roland D-05, Bk7-m & Sonic Cell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazz+ Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 I've always done it. It's "aesthetics," for lack of a better word. Unless you're endorsed, there's no good reason why the audiences' eyes should spend a fraction of a second reading the brand of your keyboard. I'd probably make an exception if it was vintage and looked good, but no examples of that come to mind right now. +1 and I use gaffer tape not duct tape Harry was the Technical Editor of Mark Levine's "The Jazz Theory Book" and helped develop "The Jazz Piano Book." Find 850 of Harry's solo piano arrangements of standards and jazz tutorials at https://www.patreon.com/HarryLikas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonysounds Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 I build my own equipment, and label it using vintage appliance stuff. I've had speaker cabinets by Speed Queen and Pontiac Firebird. I can highly recommend the practice. I like this idea! (Of course Geddy Lee took it to an extreme by placing actual clothes dryers, vending machines and chicken roasters on stage.) Now if I could figure out how to put these cool non-music logos on keyboards, I would! And Joe, regarding amps and drums, heres the thing: if I played drums, that Xxxxx logo would come off the skin, and either my name would go on the kick drum, or my band name, or something that was relevant. And regarding amps, I play bass, and the brand nameplate on my cabinets is small (not much bigger than a pack of cigarettes) and actually blends into the grill so you actually have to look for it, so Ive left it on. If it were as obnoxious as any of my keyboard logos, it would be gone. With respect to distinctive keyboard looks, theyve all got em. Yes, Nord is red, thats easy. Dont tell me you cant spot a Motif a mile away by the shape of its chassis (and sheer girth?!!!); a Fantom is no different with its distinctive end blocks; Kurzweil has that blue airplane landing light; Back in the day, the Wurli and the Rhodes had their logos prominently displayed, but they werent obnoxious, usually a gunmetal gray plate on the black surface; while Hohner was a bit less subtle, you could either tape it up (as many did) or the name got scratched off by wear and tear soon enough. Mellotron never even put their logo where the audience could see it. At least the MiniMoog had a sticker you could (or not) put on the underside of the control surface. And Hammond? Nice discreet logo where only the player could see it. Of course its sheer immenseness guaranteed recognition! Hitting "Play" does NOT constitute live performance. -Me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonysounds Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 yes, ALWAYS gaffers tape. Hitting "Play" does NOT constitute live performance. -Me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Mullins Posted January 19, 2011 Author Share Posted January 19, 2011 With respect to distinctive keyboard looks, theyve all got em. Yes, Nord is red, thats easy. Dont tell me you cant spot a Motif a mile away by the shape of its chassis (and sheer girth?!!!); a Fantom is no different with its distinctive end blocks; Kurzweil has that blue airplane landing light; Agreed...if they actually show the keyboard player for more than 0.12 seconds. The Motifs are probably just as quickly identified as the Nords. The rest take me a second or two to parse. Yamaha CK88, Arturia Keylab 61 MkII, Moog Sub 37, Yamaha U1 Upright, Casio CT-S500, Mac Logic/Mainstage, iPad Camelot, Spacestation V.3, QSC K10.2, JBL EON One Compact www.stickmanor.com There's a thin white line between fear and fury - Stickman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Stanfield Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 A couple of other reasons: If the singer is a major personality, their management wants your eyes on the artist, not on shiny logos, especially if the musicians' gear is right over the singer's shoulder. Of course, the artist's management may not want a gear manufacturer using a video clip or photo in a manner that could imply that the artist endorses that brand. When I was with Nord, a keyboard player for an iconic female blues-rock guitarist and singer - who once had a signature model guitar - contacted me asking for an endorsement. He stated that because of her terrible experience with the guitar company she was so wary of endorsements that all her band members were required to cover their gear's logos. Jason Stanfield Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sven Golly Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 Much like a tree, where you can tell the age by the number of rings, I think we can judge the age of this forum by the number of times the same threads pop up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinny Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 If only there were a thread about Kronos.... Stuff and things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cygnus64 Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 and I've even seen pics on the net of Marshall amp stacks that were hollow shells when viewed from behind. The anti-tape. What would be hilarious: being in a symphony hall, as they roll out the bigass Steinway for the Piano Concerto. On the side facing the audience, someone could put a big "Casio" sticker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Mullins Posted January 19, 2011 Author Share Posted January 19, 2011 Much like a tree, where you can tell the age by the number of rings, I think we can judge the age of this forum by the number of times the same threads pop up. Of course, this is the risk I run by posting anything. I googled, honestly I did. But alas I didn't find anything in my quickie search. As penance, I've done a more focused search and now present the link to the old thread: https://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1933755 Having said that, there were a lot of new opinions in this new thread that I found valuable. Yamaha CK88, Arturia Keylab 61 MkII, Moog Sub 37, Yamaha U1 Upright, Casio CT-S500, Mac Logic/Mainstage, iPad Camelot, Spacestation V.3, QSC K10.2, JBL EON One Compact www.stickmanor.com There's a thin white line between fear and fury - Stickman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sven Golly Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 Hey Sam, wasn't a criticism, more an observation. FWIW, I wasn't able to find any of the earlier threads either (although I didn't try all that hard )... there was another one before the one you posted, might have been 5 years ago or so... Just interesting, is all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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