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OT: Mac Users


Chad Thorne

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I'm considering switching to a Mac laptop. Since it's Mac it's going to have to be used. I'm looking at E-Bay and the iBooks and Powerbooks are affordable, but as I understand it they are discontinued. BUT I'm also told that Macs are easier to upgrade than Windows products and that many older Macs are still in use. Advice?

 

 

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i bought a new macbook pro 13" for $1,000. i don't know what your budget is. i'm brand new to mac (and loving it), so i'm not familiar with the upgrade process. if it's anything like linux (and i assume it is since mac OS is built on UNIX), it will will be exceedingly easy to upgrade to a new kernel/OS revision.

 

i would be very careful with ibook and powerbook machines. they use a different processor which is not only obsolete but architecturally different than the recent machines. OS X will work on them up to version 10.4 (tiger). like any computer, you have to be aware of hardware requirements and software compatibility. it may present problems trying to do anything remotely modern -- software is designed to work with the latest and greatest. the best G4 powerbook has netbook specs (1.67GHz processor and 512MB memory). it's not impossible to use by any stretch, but expect general pokiness.

 

robb.

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The question you need to ask yourself is what are you going to use it for? Macs are nice. So are PCs. And so is Linux.

They all have their uses. They all have different strengths and weaknesses. Don't believe hype. Do your research.

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"Paranoid? Probably. But just because you're paranoid doesn't mean there isn't an invisible demon about to eat your face."

Harry Dresden, Storm Front

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There's very little you can do to upgrade any laptop whatever brand or style. You can insert more RAM & upgrade the hard drive. Usually that's it.

 

FYI I taught Hardware, Operating Systems, Data Comms & Computer Architecture (mainly) at Glasgow College of Commerce for 15 years.

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We have mac and pc laptops at home. I know I prefer the Macs by a long way, we still have an ibook running alongside the MacBook Pro. I've had the ibook for 5-6 years and it never goes wrong. It's amazing but the newer macs are faster and the screen is a vast improvement. Save up and go for new. They will last a long time and are worth the extra cost IMHO.

 

Cheers

Davo

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I've been all Apple for 3+ years (iMac desktop, Macbook Pro laptop, iPhone, iPod) and have never regretted leaving PCs behind. Yes, Apple is more expensive, but to me the time I have NOT spent f--king around with my crash-prone PC is more valuable. Apple products just work, in my view. Full disclosure: the hard drive on my Macbook Pro did die a couple of months ago, but I put a new hard drive in for just a couple hundred bucks.

 

For me, the supreme beauty of Apple is that all these products are synced. I put something on my desktop calendar and within about 60 seconds it's also on my iPhone and my laptop.

 

You could go to a place like MicroCenter that sells both PCs and Macs to ask the staff there about issues related to upgrades, older models, etc.

"Everyone wants to change the world, but no one thinks of changing themselves." Leo Tolstoy
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Before I stopped working last year I was a computer technician in a K-12 private school. All the students between Grade 5 and year 12 (ages about 10 to 18) had laptops, and my main task was looking after their and the staff laptops. The majority were PCs (Toshiba mainly) but a large minority brought in Apples, which I had to set up to work in the school's network. Since the kids were, um, from the more moneyed side of town, most brought in a MacBook Pro, but a few had standard MacBooks. The Pros were much nicer than the Macs - nicely built, nice to use, speedy etc. However, as a long term PC user I found the Macs frustrating to set up because the places I had to go to fix settings, configuration etc were not always obvious or intuitive, but apart from that I had no complaints about them. My astronomer daughter tells me that the MacBook Pro is the weapon of choice among astronomers because of their ability to run unix scientific software and their power.

 

btw I'm writing this on a 2005 model Toshiba laptop that has never missed a beat in spite of being used daily.

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In 2006 my wife bought a MacBook to go back to school. I still think she would have done better with a PC because of the cost and it most of her school work was online and PC only compatible - so she ended up using the campus computers more than her own.

 

Since then Mac has earned my love twice by their service. When we bought the machine we bought Apple Care. In the 3 years of coverage we did not have any problems, they saw that in their records and replaced a battery at about 3 1/2 years for no charge. That battery paid for the care plan. Then, just last week, we decided to get the optical drive serviced since it hasn't recognized DVDs for several months. The Genius Bar quoted about $120 to replace the drive plus they would replace the keyboard, top bezel, and bezel around the monitor for free. Sweet! We thought that was a good deal. When I went to pick up the computer they said the optical drive was on them and faded off with something about a service bulletin. :o:)

 

- Matt W.
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TO make a long story short: I'd say go Apple all the way, otherwise go Toshiba.

Now the details: I switched from PCs in 2004, first on my recording studio, ended up changing the entire platform. It all depends on what are you planning to do with the machine, and the "If it's not broken..." policy. My studio at home runs on a turbo-charged G4 PowerMac (Tower) that I built myself from parts, and then upgraded the CPU (Originally a 400Mhz, now a dual 1.8Ghz), and I use it almost exclusively to run ProTools 6.4 on a Digi001 interface, without any flaw.

 

For business, I've been running for five-plus long years a G4 iBook (from where I'm writing this), which runs Leopard (Yes, non-Intel G4 and G5 machines DO run Leopard, just check you're installing the PowerPC CPU version), and have a couple Mac Minis (Intel, running OS X 10.6 "Snow Leopard") for media center/home computing duties.

 

It is true you cannot possibly upgrade much a laptop computer, beyond memory and hard disk drive, but it is also true the newer Intel machines are not that expensive, and considering the LOOOOOONG life they all have, I think it's a very good investment over time.

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Macs can't do anything that any other laptop can, and they tend to cost twice as much, or more, than other laptops with the same specs.

 

I wouldn't consider using a Mac over anything else unless I was stealing it. If you would like an example, the Asus N61JQ-XV1 is $930 on Amazon, brand friggin' new. The MacBook Pro MC374LL/A is $1100 refurbished. The Asus is better IN EVERY WAY. For every Mac you look at, there is another machine that is better and cheaper.

 

Normally, with almost everything, I would say "Try it, if you like it then go for it." but with Macs... please don't. If you want to try the Mac OS, just get a laptop and put that on it.

 

http://www.amazon.com/N61JQ-XV1-16-Inch-Versatile-Entertainment-Laptop/dp/B0041RRVOG/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1294360421&sr=8-4

 

http://www.amazon.com/Apple-MacBook-MC374LL-13-3-Inch-Laptop/dp/B003GSLU3E/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1294360928&sr=1-1

 

http://store.apple.com/us/product/MC573Z/A

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Hackintosh is definitely the better option.

 

This way, you define your own upgrade path, as long as you wish to keep the machine. You're not confined to the limited connectivity options Mac gives you, you're not confined to certain processors on certain motherboards with certain onboard video, etc.

 

Build your own PC and install Mac OS on it. Bang, done.

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i love how simple computer questions always devolve -- eventually -- into a referendum on whether a mac is worth the money.

 

robb.

 

Because it really isn't, not now that Mac has gone Intel (and Mac OS has been rewritten to account for it). If you love Mac OS so much, install it on a PC and save the couple grand in marketing costs added on to your Mac.

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Macs can't do anything that any other laptop can, and they tend to cost twice as much, or more, than other laptops with the same specs.

 

...and they always work. That's worth it to me. I've used one since college - 1986.

 

And that's the reason why this argument always starts, because there are folks out there like me that haven't had the issues with PC's that everyone cries about (because they buy off-the-shelf garbage that not only is vulnerable to garbage but also comes with garbage pre-installed)

 

I mean, seriously, in my dozen or so years of working with PC's, I've gotten maybe 3 viruses, each time was the result of me doing something stupid I shouldn't have been doing, and probably got hit with a couple dozen spyware infestations, all of which were tag-alongs that came with crappy "free" software I thought would be useful but wound up being worthless.

 

I completely agree with the idea that Macs are worth the money for people who don't understand computers, don't want to understand computers, and just expect their computers to work no matter what they do to them. Absolutely, a Mac is the perfect tool for someone who has no interest in understanding the tool or the proper way to go about using the tool for maximum benefit.

 

Power users (i.e. people who are willing and able to make that extra effort) will not only find increased performance from a PC, but also better price/performance ratio.

 

And that includes people who insist on the Mac OS, because you can install Mac OS on a PC, even though Steve Jobs will get really pissed at you if you do (but can't legally do a f***ing thing about it)

 

(edit)

 

I just want to emphasize here that I mean no ill will towards folks who view computers as an accessory tool that they want to just work, with them having to f*** with it. Not everyone is wired the way gadget-heads like me are. Those are the people for whom a Mac straight out of the box was made for. Plug it in, turn it on, and go. Odds of getting any kind of bug are remote enough to be laughable, because hackers don't write bugs for Macs, there aren't enough of them to be profitable.

 

I had a client a few years back that had an iMac that, astonishingly, her porn-surfing husband and porn-surfing son managed to fill with garbage including *shock* spyware.

 

I cleaned the system out, installed a "cyber sitter" program to prevent any further excursions, and her iMac was back to behaving normally. She was so thrilled, she contracted me to build an up-to-date machine.

 

Of course, I built a PC. I built it to specs no one, including Mac, could touch at my price point - and I backed it up with quotes from Apple, Dell, Sony, and several other major manufacturers.

 

I built it with heavy duty safeguards similar to what I installed in her iMac, because I knew everyone in the family were morons regarding computers, and it was just better if the computer quietly blocked any potential baddies.

 

For 3 months, all was well, they had fun with their PC. Then suddenly her gay son was blocked from a gay chatroom by my software deployment, and she insisted that I remove it. I tried to explain that the sites being blocked were all at least porn gateways, but she insisted it was safe. So I reluctantly added an exception for that site.

 

For the next month, I got twice weekly calls saying the computer was acting crazy. I wagged my finger and "told you so" as I collected house call check after house call check ($150 a whack as she was out in the boondocks) to fix what her son kept breaking by surfing gay porn.

 

After the 10th visit, I finally looked at her and said "I'm not going to keep coming out here and taking your money if you won't listen to me when I tell you that the kid is on someplace he shouldn't be. I get that you're convinced it's safe, but I'm telling you it's not, because if it were, it wouldn't be dumping all these bugs onto your system." I cleaned it up the last time, and I stopped taking her calls after that, because she refused to let me put the restrictor back on.

 

These are the type of folk who are perfect for a Mac. I did her a disservice, in the long run, by building her a PC, because the junkware they write for Macs isn't nearly as annoying and nefarious as it is for PCs, and they would have just put up with it for another 3 years.

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Macs can't do anything that any other laptop can, and they tend to cost twice as much, or more, than other laptops with the same specs.

 

...and they always work. That's worth it to me. I've used one since college - 1986.

 

And that's the reason why this argument always starts, because there are folks out there like me that haven't had the issues with PC's that everyone cries about (because they buy off-the-shelf garbage that not only is vulnerable to garbage but also comes with garbage pre-installed)

 

I mean, seriously, in my dozen or so years of working with PC's, I've gotten maybe 3 viruses, each time was the result of me doing something stupid I shouldn't have been doing, and probably got hit with a couple dozen spyware infestations, all of which were tag-alongs that came with crappy "free" software I thought would be useful but wound up being worthless.

 

I completely agree with the idea that Macs are worth the money for people who don't understand computers, don't want to understand computers, and just expect their computers to work no matter what they do to them. Absolutely, a Mac is the perfect tool for someone who has no interest in understanding the tool or the proper way to go about using the tool for maximum benefit.

 

Power users (i.e. people who are willing and able to make that extra effort) will not only find increased performance from a PC, but also better price/performance ratio.

 

And that includes people who insist on the Mac OS, because you can install Mac OS on a PC, even though Steve Jobs will get really pissed at you if you do (but can't legally do a f***ing thing about it)

 

(edit)

 

I just want to emphasize here that I mean no ill will towards folks who view computers as an accessory tool that they want to just work, with them having to f*** with it. Not everyone is wired the way gadget-heads like me are. Those are the people for whom a Mac straight out of the box was made for. Plug it in, turn it on, and go. Odds of getting any kind of bug are remote enough to be laughable, because hackers don't write bugs for Macs, there aren't enough of them to be profitable.

 

I had a client a few years back that had an iMac that, astonishingly, her porn-surfing husband and porn-surfing son managed to fill with garbage including *shock* spyware.

 

I cleaned the system out, installed a "cyber sitter" program to prevent any further excursions, and her iMac was back to behaving normally. She was so thrilled, she contracted me to build an up-to-date machine.

 

Of course, I built a PC. I built it to specs no one, including Mac, could touch at my price point - and I backed it up with quotes from Apple, Dell, Sony, and several other major manufacturers.

 

I built it with heavy duty safeguards similar to what I installed in her iMac, because I knew everyone in the family were morons regarding computers, and it was just better if the computer quietly blocked any potential baddies.

 

For 3 months, all was well, they had fun with their PC. Then suddenly her gay son was blocked from a gay chatroom by my software deployment, and she insisted that I remove it. I tried to explain that the sites being blocked were all at least porn gateways, but she insisted it was safe. So I reluctantly added an exception for that site.

 

For the next month, I got twice weekly calls saying the computer was acting crazy. I wagged my finger and "told you so" as I collected house call check after house call check ($150 a whack as she was out in the boondocks) to fix what her son kept breaking by surfing gay porn.

 

After the 10th visit, I finally looked at her and said "I'm not going to keep coming out here and taking your money if you won't listen to me when I tell you that the kid is on someplace he shouldn't be. I get that you're convinced it's safe, but I'm telling you it's not, because if it were, it wouldn't be dumping all these bugs onto your system." I cleaned it up the last time, and I stopped taking her calls after that, because she refused to let me put the restrictor back on.

 

These are the type of folk who are perfect for a Mac. I did her a disservice, in the long run, by building her a PC, because the junkware they write for Macs isn't nearly as annoying and nefarious as it is for PCs, and they would have just put up with it for another 3 years.

 

+1000!

 

Dead on Griff. The main reasons that Mac is stable and PCs aren't? Because folks tend to pile tons of "Free" stuff on their PCs and wind up with conflicts and viruses. Macs don't let you put that stuff on so they don't suffer from that issue. However, you also can't put on good free stuff.

 

Macs cost three times as much for the same thing as a PC. Do you want a computer that is just as stable as a Mac but costs less? Build a PC and don't fuck with it.

 

Lastly, Macs environment is so counter-intuitive if you want to do ANYTHING other than what they want you to do. It's just like the OS they use in their iPhones and iPod Touches. If you download their music and movies from iTunes, you are good. Trying to add your own stuff becomes can get a little screwy. Trying to transfer the contents to another device or system is a nightmare. Very simple things become a huge chore.

 

If you want to play games, get a gaming machine. If you want to watch movies, get a Blu ray player. If you want a computer, build a good quality PC.

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I myself have never had problems with a PC other than last year when my wife inadvertently let some Trojan in. So I appreciate all the input. I can't afford a new Mac but can afford a new Windows-based laptop, so that's probably how I'm going to go. Thanks, all!

 

 

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Lastly, Macs environment is so counter-intuitive if you want to do ANYTHING other than what they want you to do. It's just like the OS they use in their iPhones and iPod Touches. If you download their music and movies from iTunes, you are good. Trying to add your own stuff becomes can get a little screwy. Trying to transfer the contents to another device or system is a nightmare. Very simple things become a huge chore.

 

I just wanted to address this quickly. I don't begrudge folks who have been using Macs for years and are accustomed to that environment. They can still install Mac OS on a PC, though, and save themselves a fortune now and later on scalability.

 

I also don't begrudge folks who are accustomed to using some of the software out there that is Mac-only - Digital Performer, Final Cut (the best video editing software on the market, bar none), etc. Again, they can still install Mac OS on a PC and save themselves a fortune...

 

The hardcore Mac defenders don't seem to understand that it isn't the box that produces the results they have come to expect, it is the operating system, and since Mac abandoned RISC processors and adopted x86 architecture, there literally is no difference between the two boxes except the price tag and the scalability, and both those categories are clearly won by the PC platform.

 

Hate Windows if you want. So be it. Install Mac OS on your PC and be done with it.

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zeronyne is smarter than i am, which i why my response consists of something more than silence. i will only address the materially false statements. choice of OS is a matter of preference. i won't hide that my preferences lie thusly:

 

mac OS;

linux (ubuntu is the best distribution i've worked with);

windows.

 

Power users (i.e. people who are willing and able to make that extra effort) will not only find increased performance from a PC, but also better price/performance ratio.

 

false. certainly you will find newer or faster processor speed and perhaps more RAM in a windows machine, but benchmark comparisons will regularly show macOS getting better results in real performance. this includes build quality, battery life, energy consumption, multimedia performance, and programs like photoshop. this comparison makes my point nicely. certainly the toshiba R705 is cheaper while offering a newer processor, but the macbook pro i bought for $250 more exceeds it in performance in every respect. so it comes down to whether $250 is worth it for build quality and performance or whether WiDi is a feature you absolutely need.

 

but that isn't deterministic like you argue.

 

i will say that i have an older compaq laptop that i put a fresh install of winXP onto. i got about two hours of battery life, which is about all i ever got from it. and then i made it a dual boot machine with ubuntu, and i got 20 minutes of extra battery life. which probably explains why a windows machine with a core i3 processor is vastly inferior to a macOS machine with a core2 duo processor. in my experience windows is naturally clunky and inefficient; macOS does more with less. that doesn't make it better in the absolute sense, but it does make it better in ways i value.

 

i also want to put the "power users choose windows" argument to rest. macOS is based on UNIX, which is the standard of computer science and engineering. if you don't like the options apple has provided you in the control panels, crack open the command line and change it. all the UNIX commands work in the terminal. and there's a lot you can do with it if you know what you're doing. after working with linux, i find macOS far more similar than windows.

 

it's true that macs are also great for people who don't want to nerd out on their computer, and instead just use it and not worry. however, they are also great for those of us who use a computer for advanced functions and like to be able to tweak every single detail.

 

And that includes people who insist on the Mac OS, because you can install Mac OS on a PC, even though Steve Jobs will get really pissed at you if you do (but can't legally do a f***ing thing about it)

 

think about this. i used linux at home before i got my mac, and the thought of making a hackintosh out of one of my machines seemed like a lot of effort.

 

hackers don't write bugs for Macs, there aren't enough of them to be profitable.

 

this is also false. the reason why macOC is less susceptible to malware than windows is that it is inherently more secure than windows. installation of any program requires root password access. and while the market share of macOS is still considerably less than windows, it is above 10%, which is certainly large enough to attack, particularly since so many "power users" have an axe to grind with mac users.

 

@Chad -- i think you should buy whatever you want, but i wonder what it is you're trying to accomplish with your next computer and why you thought a used mac might offer benefits over a new windows machine. not that i'm trying to convert you or anything, but there must have been some perceived benefit to choosing a mac over windows.

 

robb.

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See, robb, you are once again obfuscating the point.

 

You are talking about Mac versus Windows. It's not about Mac versus Windows. Hardware versus hardware, software versus software. It's about MacOS versus Windows. You can't tell me a Mac can run MacOS faster than a PC with the same configuration, because there isn't any more RISC processor architecture to compare to the x86 platform. They're both the same.

 

MacOS can run on any PC. If you find it too much hassle to install on a PC, so be it, but it can be done.

 

Therefore, hardware versus hardware, I can build a much more powerful "Mac" for much less money than you can buy a Mac from Apple. Only difference is, I get to spend a couple hours assembling the machine and installing the OS (something I'd have to do if I were building a PC with Windows, or Linux, or BeOS, or OS/2 Warp, for that matter).

 

I'm really stunned, frankly, at the idea that a Linux user would find the process of installing Mac OS on a PC "a lot of effort", considering the build and then post-build process of setting up a Linux machine. Or did you get something lame-o like Lindows, the do-everything-short-of-wipe-your-butt-for-you version? (Not a dig at you, but rather a dig at those versions of Linux).

 

I've used every OS out there. I've deployed damned near every one of them on a PC at one point or another (including MacOS). I'm currently typing this message to you on a W7 box, because this is my internet appliance, and W7 is the easiest plug'n'play I've found so far for such an application. I have one system in my studio, another W7 machine, because I do a lot of work for hip-hop performers, and FL Studio is my favorite sequencing application for that kind of work. I'm also building a second box down there, which will be a Hackintosh, because, as I mentioned before, Final Cut is the hands-down best video editing software on the market, and I'm not going to pay Steve Jobs' hipster tax to have access to that software.

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please point out where i discussed mac as a completed system v. windows software or where i discussed macOS software v. PC as a completed system.

 

your first point was regarding PCs, which presumably culturally is erroneous but understood term for completed system using windows software. as such i discussed apple hardware + macOS (mac) v. hardware + windows (PC).

 

your other points were about windows, at which point i discussed the various traits of macOS v. windows v. linux (most of my experience is with ubuntu, though i have used others).

 

so yeah, get on with your bad self. i'm just saying that just because i can and do get all up in my computer doesn't mean i necessarily want to. for me there is value in buying a computer that is built exceptionally well and performs to my expectations without having to build it or tweak it, which is how i had working computers until this point in my life. frankly, it's a breath of fresh air to have a machine that works without having to baby it or worry about "doing things i shouldn't do" with a computer.

 

robb.

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so yeah, get on with your bad self. i'm just saying that just because i can and do get all up in my computer doesn't mean i necessarily want to. for me there is value in buying a computer that is built exceptionally well and performs to my expectations without having to build it or tweak it, which is how i had working computers until this point in my life. frankly, it's a breath of fresh air to have a machine that works without having to baby it or worry about "doing things i shouldn't do" with a computer.

 

1) I've never had to baby any of my windows boxes, at least not since W2K. Microsoft finally dumping the DOS-based versions of Windows was celebrated worldwide.

 

2) Doing "things I shouldn't do" is primarily referring to stupid mistakes I only ever made once, that I knew better than to do, but did anyway, like using Outlook Express attached to a Hotmail account (stupid, stupid, stupid).

 

You said "Mac" versus "Windows" - and all I'm saying is that you're obfuscating the point.

 

The last Hackintosh I set up took me all of 90 minutes to deploy the OS. Sure, that's longer than it takes for you to take a new Mac out of a box, plug it in, and start it up, but the last time I checked, I'm not getting paid $1200 an hour, which is the approximate cost differential ($1800) between buying a fully loaded Mac Pro and buying an identically configured PC box. So that 90 minutes ultimately doesn't cost me nearly as much in productivity as it saves me in real dollars.

 

You are still avoiding the point I'm making here. If you prefer Mac OS over Windows or Linux or BeOS or OS/2 or whatever, you don't have to buy Steve Jobs' overpriced computer to get your preference of operating system. So you can still have that Unix shell that you like without getting raped for it.

 

There is just no reason for anyone who knows computers to buy a new Mac versus a new PC, no matter what OS they prefer - unless of course you are making $1200 an hour, in which case you really don't GAF about saving a few bucks building your own computer anyway...

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I have a white macbook and it is pretty rewarding. It is equipped with its own Garage Band, Ableton Live and Band-in-a-box. Live is my current choice. Just whipped up a quick groove in a few minutes and I promise I will overdub the guitar (http://www.myspace.com/387014844/music/songs/78772203).

A white Macbook like this should run well below one thousand brand new and has a lot of horsepower.

Consider also an audio interface. I chose an M-Audio Ozone, that doubles as a control surface (I can tweak Live's effects with its 8 pots because it is recognized by the program) and has a two octave keyboard that can help laying out some midi part, like the organ and the drums in the clip above. Ah, and it comes with Live and a crippled Pro Tools.

If you choose Live or Cubase you might as well get a PC, but still I love my Mac for never getting in the way, while Windows interrupts you quite often. Windows 7 is bearable but MacOS is still more refined, stable and respectful of my time.

One more thing I dislike in Windows is the crap that PC makers preinstall on their system, like tens of explorer toolbars, control centers, diagnostics and who knows what else. MacOS is thought as a whole from the ground up, fully tested on all configurations and always predictable.

Some little things I love is that a press on the space bar shows you the content of most documents without launching a program.

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I think I get where Grif is coming from. He is talking purely about the hardware. That it would be cheaper to run the Mac OS for instance, on a less expensive machine (provided all the hardware is compatible with the Mac Os) originally constructed for windows than buying the hardware from Apple. If Mac is anything similar to Linux, if what I'm understanding they both use the UNIX kernel, then it should fly on that machine. I have very little experience with the Mac Os but from what I can tell as far as in terms of user interface Mac and windows aren't all that dissimilar.

 

As far as who's OS is better as in easier to use? That's kind of subjective. The thing about Windows as we pretty much know is is that it's the 400 lb. gorilla. There are way more apps that you can get for it because it is more widely accepted. Is it better? Perhaps not. It does seem that it's pretty easy to sabotage windows with crap. On the other hand Mac for some reason doesn't seem to be the target of hackers and if it were I would have no doubt there would be problems too. Regardless of architecture. I have little trouble with windows in it's original state. It's when you add all the plug-ins and such that it tends to get pretty buggered up. Which is what Griff was also getting at. I do have to say that in terms of resources windows is a bit of a resouce hog as opposed to other OS's.

 

Now am I a computer whiz, heck no. I have built and customized a few (I go back to the 386DX). I fix my own machines around the house. I am no expert, but these are some of my observations. Should he buy a Mac. Yeah, go for it if it's what your comfortable with but there are according to Grif cheaper alternatives. I would have to agree.

 

 

 

Lydian mode? The only mode I know has the words "pie ala" in front of it.

http://www.myspace.com/theeldoradosband

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My bad, apparently the Hackintosh userbase has refined the art of turning PC's into Macs into a science, and the install is not only simple and elegant, but quicker than the last time I experienced it.

 

http://lifehacker.com/5672051/how-to-build-a-hackintosh-mac-and-install-os-x-in-eight-easy-steps

 

30 minutes and 3 reboots, in this case.

 

PS: I'm absolutely all for folks who fit into the categories I mentioned above (or folks who are just too damned stubborn) to keep buying Macs.

 

Why?

 

Because it guarantees that Steve Jobs will continue to update OS X, and the likelihood that he tries to prevent people from buying his OS to install on non-Mac hardware (beyond his EULA, that is) is slim to none, because, well, that's still revenue they're getting that they wouldn't otherwise....

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Just one more thing....

 

http://db.xbench.com/csi.xhtml?machineTypeID=41

 

http://db.xbench.com/comparesubindex.xhtml?machineTypeID=41&sort=&minVersion=1.3&offset=300 (Hackintosh test results)

 

The Hackintosh the boys at LifeHacker put together kicked the crap out of all but a handful of Mac Pros.

 

Meanwhile, a quick cost comparison:

 

Top of the line Mac Pro (dual 2.93 Ghz Xeon Westmere 6-cores, 32GB RAM, 512 GB solid state drive, additional pair of 2 TB drives, everything else standard): $11,599

 

Same specification PC: (Mobo $300, processors 2x$1500, RAM 8x$60, Drive 1 $925, Drive 2/3 2x$100, Box/power supply $100, video card $200): $5205

 

Big frickin' difference, for half an hour of time.

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