classical guitar

[GreySeraph]

since the last time i was around (somewhere between 1 to 2 years ago), are there any new members here who are classical guitarists? If so, what are some pieces/techniques you are working on? What guitars are you using, what supports/footstools are you using, and who do you study under?

 

edit: are there no other classical guitarists?

[dvuksanovich]

I went to school to be a classical guitarist but I gave it up. My guitar was a Brune (sold it). I studied under Julian Gray at the Peabody Conservatory.

 

I do love Bach but these days I crank up the distortion for my rendition of the 3rd cello suite.

[GreySeraph]

Nice man! Brune's are pretty fun to play on. Do you still play on any nylon stringed guitars? Do you still work on any new classical rep? It mustve been fun studying under Gray.

[JayYGS]

I play alot of Mozart piano sonatas....mny own translations.

Even did a version of "LaCrimosa" from his requiem. I'm pretty

careful to not simply play what would be expected, standard nylon guitar scores.

[Gruupi]

I play mostly classical but am not new here. I have been working on some musical things over the last year or so, more about tempo and dynamics than any new techniques. I finaly got to where I have over an hour of music ready to perform which was a big goal from a couple of years ago, I am still trying to improve my general overall performances though.

 

I have been trying to overcome my stage fright and have made big improvements there, sometimes I even have fun playing for others. The key was to practice concentrating, and of course play out as often as possible, I stopped shying away from playing for others. I still crash and burn but have learned to take it in stride and keep playing, only the other guitar players seem to notice the mistakes anyway.

 

As far as pieces, it takes me a long time to get a piece together, a year or more depending on how hard it is. I have been working on "Guardame las Vacas, Shuman's "Traumerie", and a Wiess Prelude forever and still haven't gotten them ready to perform yet. I also write my own pieces, and usually have an idea or two floating around.

 

I play a Chris Carrington guitar and use an ergoplay support.

 

While this forum doesn't seem to have many classical players, there has always been an openess to it. Some of the guys that were here awhile back I haven't heard from in quite some time.

[dvuksanovich]

Nice man! Brune's are pretty fun to play on. Do you still play on any nylon stringed guitars? Do you still work on any new classical rep? It mustve been fun studying under Gray.

 

My Brune was spectacular. It sounded better (IMO) than guitars that cost twice as much. These days I play my Carvin DC400 exclusively... no nylon strings for me anymore.

 

I am working on Bach's 3rd cello suite. I'm pretty far along on the prelude and allemande, but I work full time so it's taken me about a year to get where I am.

 

Studying with Julian was great... and being at Peabody was an incredible experience. Franco Platino and Berta Rojas were there while I was there. What awesome talents, and I got to hear them play live all the time. Let's also not forget all the Barrueco master classes. I even got to go to his house for a holiday party once.

 

Good times...

 

What about you? Where did you go and who were your teachers?

[Chad Thorne]

I play a Raimundo. I beat the heck out of it with a pick. :grin:

[GreySeraph]

I play alot of Mozart piano sonatas....mny own translations.

Even did a version of "LaCrimosa" from his requiem. I'm pretty

careful to not simply play what would be expected, standard nylon guitar scores.

 

That's awesome man. I've heard some good Mozart on guitar. Bill Kanengiser did some before: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPP0_va2krc

I do have a question for you though. What do you mean by standard nylon guitar scores? Like pieces written specifically for guitar?

 

I play mostly classical but am not new here. I have been working on some musical things over the last year or so, more about tempo and dynamics than any new techniques. I finaly got to where I have over an hour of music ready to perform which was a big goal from a couple of years ago, I am still trying to improve my general overall performances though.

 

I have been trying to overcome my stage fright and have made big improvements there, sometimes I even have fun playing for others. The key was to practice concentrating, and of course play out as often as possible, I stopped shying away from playing for others. I still crash and burn but have learned to take it in stride and keep playing, only the other guitar players seem to notice the mistakes anyway.

 

As far as pieces, it takes me a long time to get a piece together, a year or more depending on how hard it is. I have been working on "Guardame las Vacas, Shuman's "Traumerie", and a Wiess Prelude forever and still haven't gotten them ready to perform yet. I also write my own pieces, and usually have an idea or two floating around.

 

I play a Chris Carrington guitar and use an ergoplay support.

 

While this forum doesn't seem to have many classical players, there has always been an openess to it. Some of the guys that were here awhile back I haven't heard from in quite some time.

 

Nice dude! I had a LOT of trouble too with playing for audiences, (and I even freaked out during one of my juries and started crying once-- yeah it was that bad) so for one summer I played free singer/songwriter gigs at whatever establishments would let me (about 15-16 in all) just to kick the fear. The first 6-7 times I couldnt even finish (i was shaking too hard). Now things are totally different and I'm sorta a ham on stage at times, but yeah, experience and some of the Holy Spirit's inspiration goes a long way

 

Your pieces are cool btw. I love old renaissance pieces like your Narvaez (guarding the cows ). It'd be cool if you could record one of those three pieces for us here!

 

The Chris Carrington guitars are vaguely familiar. Dont they have that weird headstock that doesn't connect? And yeah, as by my picture you can see I use an ergoplay as well! Theyre great supports for sure.

 

This forum's pretty awesome. I came in here the first time and it was almost hilarious how awesome the people on here were. (Caevan especially would reply in full essays! )

 

My Brune was spectacular. It sounded better (IMO) than guitars that cost twice as much. These days I play my Carvin DC400 exclusively... no nylon strings for me anymore.

 

I am working on Bach's 3rd cello suite. I'm pretty far along on the prelude and allemande, but I work full time so it's taken me about a year to get where I am.

 

Studying with Julian was great... and being at Peabody was an incredible experience. Franco Platino and Berta Rojas were there while I was there. What awesome talents, and I got to hear them play live all the time. Let's also not forget all the Barrueco master classes. I even got to go to his house for a holiday party once.

 

Good times...

 

What about you? Where did you go and who were your teachers?

 

I'm still going to Cal State Fullerton, studying under David Grimes (GFA President for 26 years), Richard Turner (studied under Ray de la Torre) and T.K. Gardner (who studied under Jack Sanders and Martha Masters). I was at Fullerton College studying under Dr. Joseph Jewell (Hollywood Bowl Orchestra guitarist who got a jazz/classical DMA at USC) and Eric Ray (M.M. from San Fran Conservatory under Tanenbaum). Right now I'm trying to finish up my Bachelors of Music (yes...a B.M. degree lawl), and I feel called to finish a DMA (Doctorate of Musical Arts). I might either go to Pepperdine to study under Parkening, or Loyola Marymount to study under Martha Masters for my grad studies.

 

Right now I'm playing on a 2001 Greg Byers guitar, and it's a freaking awesome guitar IMO, but I'm hoping at the moment to completely convert to the Brahms guitar, otherwise known colloquially as a cello guitar, which I'm having built by luthier Michael Peters. (Here's an example of Paul Galbraith playing a Brahms guitar: [video:youtube]

) I'm finding more and more that the guitar needs to go through another evolution, as how the 20th century "modern" classical guitar is played is severely limiting.

 

First of all, the sitting position we use, whether it's with a support or a footstool, is extremely bad for the posture, as it naturally pulls the body to a side, keeping us unbalanced. The footstool especially has done atrocious things to my back, and I can't even go back to the footstool without feeling huge back pains. I have since rectified my situation with the support, working on relaxation techniques and what not, but I feel it's such an uphill battle.

 

Secondly, the guitar isn't ergonomic enough and doesn't lend itself to fluid phrasing. You talk to any orchestral dude who has a great ear and they'll feel that any general guitarist always plays vertically, never capturing the phrasing a melody needs. Part of this I feel is because we end up resting our right arm over the guitar and mostly move from a slightly limp wrist and fingers, trying to get the best tone possible. Pianists, cellists, violinists, harpists, etc. all have it GREAT. They have full movement of the arms and can express things with a flow that can almost only be attained via that full, beautiful movement (hence why the change to the "cello position" would be a boon for us). Furthermore, because we rest on the guitar so much, it greatly dampens the resonance of the guitar, holding back the beautiful tone that the guitar could potentially deliver. Especially if we use footstools, we touch the guitar from all over!

 

Thirdly, the vertical sitting position of the "cello position" would rectify a lot of problems with pinching the guitar too tightly with barre chords, as you could relax more into such chords because gravity would do all the work. Now, good technique states that you should do that anyway, but I can personally attest to such a vertical sitting position makes the act take FAR less concentration.

 

Fourthly, the brahms guitar is fan fretted. This keeps the elbow from ever having to move, and lets the arm go where it needs to go without having to adjust with every fret, regardless of how high the frets get. Plus, it gives a separate scale length to each fret, making for better intonation adjustments.

 

Fifthly, the guitar uses an endspike to let resonance travel from the main box to the resonator box, a box made just like a normal guitar, complete with a spruce top, rosewood sides, and lattice bracing. This helps give more soundboard-surface area, providing about 3x more volume than the standard, french-polished concert classical guitar.

 

Lastly, the brahms guitar has 8 strings, a high A and a low A. This gives a HUGE increase of range and lends itself to playing in tessituras that pretty much only pianos could do. The middle 6 strings are generally tuned in standard.

 

I'm super interested in studying under Paul Galbraith, who, with the help of the late luthier David Rubio, created this from the early designs of the Orpharion, a similar instrument. He lives in Sao Paulo, Brazil though, so I might go there for a summer sometime in the future.

[GreySeraph]

I play a Raimundo. I beat the heck out of it with a pick. :grin:

 

isnt that guitar a decently expensive concert guitar? it's gotta be all pick-slashed by now huh? yikes.

[Gruupi]

Yes GreySeraph, the Carrington has a different headstock like you mentioned. It is a really sweet sounding guitar and pretty loud as well.

 

As far as recordings of the 3 pieces I mentioned earlier, it's gonna be awhile. I have yet to even be able to play them through yet with no mistakes so recording under pressure would be out of the question. I didn't think they sounded all that hard but each of them has turned out to be quite a technical challenge for me. I've stopped and started Guardame las Vacas 3 times, I just get out of sync with the way the pulloffs and string shifts go, not usually a problem but something just gets me lost here. It's scary that I have been working on this for 2 years and still can't perform it, I guess I will be a better player by the time I get it down though

 

I do have some other pieces on my YouTube channel though.

[Chad Thorne]

I play a Raimundo. I beat the heck out of it with a pick. :grin:

 

isnt that guitar a decently expensive concert guitar? it's gotta be all pick-slashed by now huh? yikes.

Expensive, yes. Pick-slashed, no; my technique is such that I don't do that to guitars. [EDIT] I do want to stress that the fact that my technique doesn't scratch up my guitar is simply and only a result of dumb luck. I mean, lest anybody assume that it's a result of intensive study and rigorous practice...

[dvuksanovich]

Right now I'm playing on a 2001 Greg Byers guitar, and it's a freaking awesome guitar IMO, but I'm hoping at the moment to completely convert to the Brahms guitar....

 

Wow... that's a major undertaking. I have a hard enough time dealing with six strings.

 

I do agree about the "evolution" comment, though more from a musical selection standpoint than purely an instrument standpoint. The standard rep is getting pretty tired. I'm not sure how many more versions of "Recuerdos" I need to hear.

[GreySeraph]

Yes GreySeraph, the Carrington has a different headstock like you mentioned. It is a really sweet sounding guitar and pretty loud as well.

 

As far as recordings of the 3 pieces I mentioned earlier, it's gonna be awhile. I have yet to even be able to play them through yet with no mistakes so recording under pressure would be out of the question. I didn't think they sounded all that hard but each of them has turned out to be quite a technical challenge for me. I've stopped and started Guardame las Vacas 3 times, I just get out of sync with the way the pulloffs and string shifts go, not usually a problem but something just gets me lost here. It's scary that I have been working on this for 2 years and still can't perform it, I guess I will be a better player by the time I get it down though

 

I do have some other pieces on my YouTube channel though.

 

dude yeah, renaissance pieces are so easy-sounding, but theyre definitely excruciatingly painful to get right with phrasing and everything. I did go to your youtube channel though; good stuff you got playing there! You even have the B minor sor study sweet!

 

Right now I'm playing on a 2001 Greg Byers guitar, and it's a freaking awesome guitar IMO, but I'm hoping at the moment to completely convert to the Brahms guitar....

 

Wow... that's a major undertaking. I have a hard enough time dealing with six strings.

 

I do agree about the "evolution" comment, though more from a musical selection standpoint than purely an instrument standpoint. The standard rep is getting pretty tired. I'm not sure how many more versions of "Recuerdos" I need to hear.

 

Dude yeah you're most definitely right. Everyone plays Leyenda/Recuerdos/Koyunbaba/etc. Those pieces are definitely beautiful and worth it, but it ends up making the huge sea of performers sound stale and takes a David Russell or a Paul Galbraith or Denis Azabagic to make such pieces still sound alive.

 

I'm really digging what Sergio and Odair Assad are doing with compositional work, and Leo Brouwer is always a breath of fresh air. If you get a chance, go listen to the Verso Duo, this Dutch duo (panflute and guitar) who have this repertoire of all these crazy new pieces. I got a link to an arrangement they did of Piazzolla's Histoire du Tango (IMO, this is one of the best performances of this:

)

 

Expensive, yes. Pick-slashed, no; my technique is such that I don't do that to guitars.

 

Ah nice. What type of stuff do you play on your Raimundo? I remember hearing a few jazz recordings like of George Benson doing some amazing stuff with a classical guitar and a pick. Of course, using a pick on nylon strings would shred up the strings, making them useless for finger picking, but I completely dig the tone one gets from using a pick on those strings. I've thought about getting a Godin Multitac for the sake of doing stuff like that; it's absolutely bitchin'!

[dvuksanovich]

Those Piazzola pieces are great. Thanks for sharing the link... nice rendition with the panflute.

 

I will admit that the one thing I can't get enough of is Bach. I could listen to 500 players do the same piece and for me it wouldn't get old. For me Bach is the pinnacle of western music. I have yet to hear anything else that even comes close (doesn't mean it's not out there... just that I haven't heard it).

 

It would be great if the newer 7 and 8 string guitars opened up some additional Bach rep on the guitar.

[GreySeraph]

Well actually, Paul Galbraith became so well known because of his renditions of ALL the Bach partitas, lute suites and violin sonatas. He even did everything on one take and nailed it, and even had this crazy thing where on a lot of the suites, he believed that they shouldve been played attacca, so he chopped off the the track before the end of each movement just to show that he went the whole way through (the best example of it is in his recording of Bach's BWV 998 (the prelude, fugue and allegro)).

 

If anyone wants to hear those, they arent on youtube, but just PM me your email address and I will send out at least BWV 998. If you really dig it, ill send a few more, but hopefully you guys would buy the album as well ahahaha.

[Chad Thorne]

Expensive, yes. Pick-slashed, no; my technique is such that I don't do that to guitars.

 

Ah nice. What type of stuff do you play on your Raimundo? I remember hearing a few jazz recordings like of George Benson doing some amazing stuff with a classical guitar and a pick. Of course, using a pick on nylon strings would shred up the strings, making them useless for finger picking, but I completely dig the tone one gets from using a pick on those strings. I've thought about getting a Godin Multitac for the sake of doing stuff like that; it's absolutely bitchin'!

Depends on my mood. - My first guitar was a classical style ($13.00), though I didn't understand about nylon strings, put steel strings on it, and ultimately ripped the bridge off. I lost it when our barn burned down some years ago. Point is, picking up a classical kinda transports me back to those earliest days: I describe a classical guitar as possessing "quintessential guitarness." Anyway, I often go to faux flamenco/Spanish-y things. I know a few Mexican songs that are just a joy to sing while accompanying oneself on a gut-string guitar.

I never cared for Earl Klugh playing jazz on a nylon-string guitar. Never heard Benson, and haven't listened to enough of, say, Charlie Byrd to know if it's any different. The exception, maybe, is bossa nova; I can strum me some Jobim for hours. Then of course there are Willie Nelson tunes...

[hue]

Classical guitar is a genre that can't be taken lightly. You hear a lot of people who butcher classical pieces. If you can't dedicate yourself to it, you're going to sound like a hack. That's never good. Some guy will learn Greensleeves and call himself a classical guitarist. Arrrgh!

 

Nothing more grating than a guy hacking Bach. When I hear a classical guitarist, I want to hear him treat the work with respect. Leave your ego at home. A true classical guitarist doesn't need an ego. He has nothing to prove. The proof is in his playing. On the contrary, a good classical guitarist is his own worst critic. Usually humble and always striving for a better performance.

 

Hacks always show off their "skills" and expect praise. Of course some people give it because they don't know any better.

 

ONe of my favorite current classical guitarist is Dennis Azabajic. He is precise but also plays with enough feeling that you can hear he has his own "style".

 

 

I could not pretend to play classical guitar but I can appreciate it.

[GreySeraph]

Not to be critical, but I must come to my forum-mate's defense (and I'd hope more of us would do the same) and say that as much as you should aspire to learn more, you should never take yourself so seriously like that. Music is music is music, and should be taken with feeling regardless of the genre (notice I dont say that it should be taken lightly, but "too seriously" can always land you in trouble as well). If you love music, you shouldn't be worried about how others butcher pieces, but rather, love them for who they are and constructively criticize for the sake of the betterment of music as a whole. People are people. The reason why classical music is suffering in this stagnancy is because people get so elitist about it. Yes we shouldn't play Bach poorly; yes we should hold ourselves to high standards; but realize that not everyone understands that standard. "We must be the change we wish to see in this world." (Ghandi)

 

I apologize if I got you all wrong, but I feel like you were talking about Gruupi (who played those songs you made examples of), who I believe is doing a great job. I will defend him to the death because he is willing to keep playing on and get better! I'm sure everyone here would lovingly agree that you should be a musician because you love music and because you want to pour your heart out to an audience through the classical pieces, not because one should have technique/skill up the wazoo . Mauro Giuliani (Fernando Sor/Beethoven contemporary) once said that technique should always serve the music, not the other way around (and he was known to be a LIGHTNING fast virtuoso of his day). I practice 8-15 hours a day making sure I get things right. I teach 20+ students. I've had instruction under people like the Assads, David Grimes, Dr. Joe Jewell, Andrea Dieci, and Paul Galbraith. I've played the Concierto de Aranjuez with the Orange County Symphony Orchestra (the DVD should arrive with me pretty soon as I played it fairly recently) and I gig as their main guitarist on a regular basis, so hopefully there's authority in me saying that you dont have to be a professional/dedicated guitarist to play classical guitar; just LOVE it. I think it's harsh to talk about people as being hacks who show off their skills, because there's thousands of great musicians who will never be known because theyre so introverted about it. We're musicians because we're entertainers as well, so go ahead and post your stuff up and let things fly It's healthy.

 

The movie Bambi got it right: "If you cant say something nice, dont say nothing at all."

[GreySeraph]

Expensive, yes. Pick-slashed, no; my technique is such that I don't do that to guitars.

 

Ah nice. What type of stuff do you play on your Raimundo? I remember hearing a few jazz recordings like of George Benson doing some amazing stuff with a classical guitar and a pick. Of course, using a pick on nylon strings would shred up the strings, making them useless for finger picking, but I completely dig the tone one gets from using a pick on those strings. I've thought about getting a Godin Multitac for the sake of doing stuff like that; it's absolutely bitchin'!

Depends on my mood. - My first guitar was a classical style ($13.00), though I didn't understand about nylon strings, put steel strings on it, and ultimately ripped the bridge off. I lost it when our barn burned down some years ago. Point is, picking up a classical kinda transports me back to those earliest days: I describe a classical guitar as possessing "quintessential guitarness." Anyway, I often go to faux flamenco/Spanish-y things. I know a few Mexican songs that are just a joy to sing while accompanying oneself on a gut-string guitar.

I never cared for Earl Klugh playing jazz on a nylon-string guitar. Never heard Benson, and haven't listened to enough of, say, Charlie Byrd to know if it's any different. The exception, maybe, is bossa nova; I can strum me some Jobim for hours. Then of course there are Willie Nelson tunes...

 

Jobim's awesome man! I've never heard of Earl Klugh, but I dig bossa nova and samba stuff on nylon string. Have you ever heard of Baden-Powell? He does a lot of stuff like that, but more of a fusion between classical guitar stuff and that, and it became proper repertoire for the classical guitar. Great stuff for sure!

[skipclone 1]

Not familiar with Earl? that´s a recommended listen-maybe not everyone´s cup of java but he definitely brought something new to the table, albeit in a pop-fusion environment. He did a nice collaboration with Bob James, one forth of Fourplay.

[Gruupi]

Well, I don't know if Hue was referring to me as a hack or not, and I appreciate someone trying to defend me, but it's not really needed. In some ways, I feel I AM a hack. I am surrounded by the classical guitar crowd, and know the standards some of them hold everyone up to. I am constantly humbled by some of these amazing players. There is good and bad in this, the good is that the level of playing as a whole has gone way up, the bar has been raised. The bad is that sometimes these technically perfect players sound boring, playing difficult music that just doesn't sound that good. There are rare cases, and Denis Azabagic is one of those, that have a very developed technique and an acute musical sensibility. I saw Denis play about a year ago and audited a master class, he is now one of my favorites.

 

Maybe I shouldn't call myself a classical player, but since we all like to label things, that's the closest representation of what I am trying to do. I fully admit that I am as influenced by all the other types of music I have played and listened to, and incorporate it into my playing and writing. So even if Hue (not sure he was) was refering to me, I can't say I am even offended, I like the music I play.

 

 

[Chad Thorne]

Grey, just looked up Baden Powell on YouTube. Listened to a Prelude in A Minor and "Samba Triste." Can't speak to his classical technique, though it sounded awfully nice; bu the samba was the straight-ahead Brazilian shiznit. Very nice!

[GreySeraph]

Well, I don't know if Hue was referring to me as a hack or not, and I appreciate someone trying to defend me, but it's not really needed. In some ways, I feel I AM a hack. I am surrounded by the classical guitar crowd, and know the standards some of them hold everyone up to. I am constantly humbled by some of these amazing players. There is good and bad in this, the good is that the level of playing as a whole has gone way up, the bar has been raised. The bad is that sometimes these technically perfect players sound boring, playing difficult music that just doesn't sound that good. There are rare cases, and Denis Azabagic is one of those, that have a very developed technique and an acute musical sensibility. I saw Denis play about a year ago and audited a master class, he is now one of my favorites.

 

Maybe I shouldn't call myself a classical player, but since we all like to label things, that's the closest representation of what I am trying to do. I fully admit that I am as influenced by all the other types of music I have played and listened to, and incorporate it into my playing and writing.

 

dude if you like classical music, you're a classical player. Always strive to be better, and never compare yourself to other players. Yes, you should always try to learn from others, but never size yourself up next to someone else. They'll never be you and you'll never be them. In the meantime, do you study with anyone? If you want, you could skype with me and we can have fun doing tunes and w/e.

 

So even if Hue (not sure he was) was refering to me, I can't say I am even offended, I like the music I play.

 

nuff said bruddah.

 

Grey, just looked up Baden Powell on YouTube. Listened to a Prelude in A Minor and "Samba Triste." Can't speak to his classical technique, though it sounded awfully nice; bu the samba was the straight-ahead Brazilian shiznit. Very nice!

 

Haha. He himself was a poor example of classical technique for sure, but the guy can sure make some beautiful sounding tunes! If you want, I can hook you (or anyone) with sheet music for these!

[GreySeraph]

I'll just leave this here...

 

[video:youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcsSPzr7ays