OT: what mixer should I get

[heehee62]

Sorry if this is off-topic. I tried posting my question on sweetwater.com and didn't get any responses so thought I'd try here.

 

What mixer should get for mainly live sometime studio, nonprofessional home use:

 

I want to be able to do the following:

 

1. Karaoke using the karafun program on my computer. I want to have echo, delay, etc. effects.

2. Connect my music keyboard to my computer so I can record music.

3. Connect my guitar to the computer to record music.

4. Connect microphones to computer to record music.

5. I have two different sets of speakers. It would be nice to be able to easily switch which set of speakers the output sound is going to through the use of the mixer.

 

 

FYI, I have two EV N/D767a microphones, a motif xs8 keyboard, set of dynaudio bm5a by my keyboard, an electric guitar, and a set of surround sound home theatre speakers that plug into my rsx 1056 rotel sound reciever. I have a samsung R580 laptop that has an expresscard slot that I can add firewire through and usb ports. I have cubase ai4 and sibelius 6.

 

I was trying to keep costs down to $200 or less. My primary use is live music so if I can get more bang for buck by buying a firewire card to connect my keyboard to my computer and then pluging guitar and microphone into keyboard for recording purposes and just using the mixer for my live karaoke, I'm willing to do that.

 

Thanks a lot.

[Griffinator]

Uh...

 

Less than $200 isn't going to buy you much in the way of a mixer, never mind one that does everything you want it to do.

 

That's the brutally honest truth.

 

You're asking for a mixer that costs less than one of your mics to:

 

1) Have onboard FX

2) Have multiple output routing options for powered speakers

3) Have digital I/O to connect to your computer.

 

Nah, not gonna happen for under $200. That's probably why you didn't get a response at Sweetwater's forums - no one took the question seriously.

 

Even this piece of trash will only get 2 of the 3 you want done - no onboard FX - and I wouldn't use that noisy hunk of junk as anything more mission-critical than a paperweight.

[MoodyBluesKeys]

Didn't say how many inputs. If you can go up to $250, you might try the Allen & Heath ZED 10 - it is better quality than the B** brand that Griff mentioned. Here's a link to an EBay seller (I have no connection with the seller, just a quick reference so you can see what I'm talking about.

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/Allen-Heath-Zed-10-Mixer-/160501790984?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item255ea6f908

[Griffinator]

Didn't say how many inputs. If you can go up to $250, you might try the Allen & Heath ZED 10 - it is better quality than the B** brand that Griff mentioned. Here's a link to an EBay seller (I have no connection with the seller, just a quick reference so you can see what I'm talking about.

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/Allen-Heath-Zed-10-Mixer-/160501790984?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item255ea6f908

 

He did, actually - 2 mics, guitar, and keyboards - that'd be a total of 3 plus one stereo pair.

 

Actually, to get the onboard FX, he'd have to go to $300:

 

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/ZED10FX/?gclid=CK2a2aqA8qUCFcNM4Aod6iWanw

[CEB]

I bought a cheap Yamaha to mix down my keys. I like because it mounts on a mic stand. It was about a $100 but has no effects except for compression that I do not use. I am not totally happy with it but it was only $100. I think it is decent for less than $100. However IMO the DP sound better straight into the K12s than it does if I have to run multiple instruments through this mixer.

 

http://www.themusicoasis.com/images/Yamaha/Yamaha%20MG102C%20Mic.jpg

[Griffinator]

I bought a cheap Yamaha to mix down my keys. I like because it mounts on a mic stand. It was about a $100 but has no effects except for compression that I do not use. I am not totally happy with it but it was only $100. I think it is decent for less than $100. However the DP sound better straight into the K12s than it does if I have to rum multiple instruments through this mixer.

 

Those little Yamaha minis are tanks - except that's not what he's after - he wants a USB mixer with onboard effects for less than $200, and that just isn't going to happen.

[CEB]

I didn't catch the USB thing. I thought maybe the MG82cx would would work it has effects but NOT USB. I use the MG102c

[NoahZark]

...he wants a USB mixer with onboard effects for less than $200, and that just isn't going to happen.

 

Ummm, this qualifies (with 50 bucks to spare for extra cables):

 

Alesis MultiMix 8 USB FX

 

It even includes multiple outputs....

 

Noah

[heehee62]

Thanks everyone!

 

Looks like its between Alesis Multimix 8 USB FX and Allen-Heath Zed 10 FX. I'm not exactly seeing how I can plug both my keyboard and laptop at the same time into either of those though as there is only one usb socket (do I use a different type of cable to connect the midi keyboard?).

 

Of those 2 mixers, which one do you guys think is better?

 

And are these options going to produce a decent sound for me?

 

I know I have some quality instruments so wouldn't want it to be like getting the highest quality tv screen (my instruments) and then being so cheap I buy rca cables (mixer) that make my quality tv a waste. If that's what I'm doing, I'm willing to pay more and what should I get in this case?

 

 

[NoahZark]

I'm not exactly seeing how I can plug both my keyboard and laptop at the same time into either of those though as there is only one usb socket (do I use a different type of cable to connect the midi keyboard?).

 

Run audio outs from your keyboard into the mixer inputs. Then, connect the mixer to your computer via USB.

 

If you're trying to send MIDI from your keyboard instead of audio, that's another issue entirely (and would require a different solution then the mixers identified), assuming what you want to do is send MIDI over USB.

 

Of those 2 mixers, which one do you guys think is better?

 

Don't have first-hand experience with either, but both Alesis and A&H make quality products at decent prices.

 

And are these options going to produce a decent sound for me?

 

You bet (although I bet the built-in effects on both are pretty darn average at best).

 

I know I have some quality instruments so wouldn't want it to be like getting the highest quality tv screen (my instruments) and then being so cheap I buy rca cables (mixer) that make my quality tv a waste. If that's what I'm doing, I'm willing to pay more and what should I get in this case?

 

Funny you should say this, because when I looked at your list of gear, which is definitely quality stuff, it seemed like you were short-changing yourself a bit with your $200 price cap for a do-it-all USB mixer. What should you get? Hard to say since there are so many options, but I think something like the MOTU Ultralite MK3 would definitely be worth looking at. Solves your MIDI problem if that's what you're trying to do, since it has both MIDI and audio capabilities and it functions as both a digital audio interface and in "standalone" mode if you want to use it simply as a mixer with no computer attached. It also has much greater input, output, and routing flexibility than the other products identified thus far (and probably sounds better as well).

 

Noah

[Griffinator]

...he wants a USB mixer with onboard effects for less than $200, and that just isn't going to happen.

 

Ummm, this qualifies (with 50 bucks to spare for extra cables):

 

Alesis MultiMix 8 USB FX

 

It even includes multiple outputs....

 

Noah

 

Well dip me in shit and call me a fudgesicle.

 

I figured if B***er hadn't found a way to hit that price point with that feature set, no one could have.

[Griffinator]

Funny you should say this, because when I looked at your list of gear, which is definitely quality stuff, it seemed like you were short-changing yourself a bit with your $200 price cap for a do-it-all USB mixer.

 

This was where I wasn't willing to directly go, though I hinted around it more than once.

 

What should you get? Hard to say since there are so many options, but I think something like the MOTU Ultralite MK3 would definitely be worth looking at. Solves your MIDI problem if that's what you're trying to do, since it has both MIDI and audio capabilities and it functions as both a digital audio interface and in "standalone" mode if you want to use it simply as a mixer with no computer attached. It also has much greater input, output, and routing flexibility than the other products identified thus far (and probably sounds better as well).

 

This, emphatically.

 

Link, for those looking...

[NoahZark]

Hey, Griff.

 

What up, Fudgesicle?

 

Noah

[Griffinator]

Hey, Griff.

 

What up, Fudgesicle?

 

Noah

 

Looking around to see where Noah dipped me in shit.

[NoahZark]

[bloodyMary]

Sounds like the OP needs a usb/firewire audio interface, like an M-audio box?

They all connect to PC, have guitar, mic, line inputs, and many have multiple outputs. Some include MIDI connectivity as well. for example, M-Audio Fast Track Pro.

[heehee62]

So I went to buy the MOTU UltraLite-mk3 Hybrid (the M-Audio Fast Track Pro and the rest don't have effects I think).

 

But then the salesman recommends I not get the MOTU because of the $520 price. He said I would get more bang for buck if I instead get this $150 PreSonus Audio Box USB. I would never use 2 mics and the guitar at the same time (just 2 mics together or 1 mic and 1 guitar and keyboard). He says it comes with the full version of Studio One which normally is $200 on its own and is way better than the Cubase ai4 I have. I can use Studio One to add the effects to my microphones (not sure if I can add effects to both microphones at same time this way which is what i want). He says if it turns out I can't stand always having to turn on my computer for the effects, then I can get a separate effects box with the PreSonus and that would still be less than the $520 for the Motu.

 

http://www.guitarcenter.com/PreSonus-AudioBox-USB-2X2-USB-Recording-System-104841978-i1388074.gc

 

What do you guys think? Thanks a lot for your help everyone.

[Griffinator]

Does the PreSonus actually have MIDI input? That'd be the only downfall....

 

(edit)

 

NM, I just checked the link, and it does.

 

Worst case scenario, if you're not happy with the PreSonus (I'd be a little leery at that price point, but that's me), then you're not out a fortune when you decide to step up to the MOTU (which are much better boxes across the board in all the fine details).

 

Now, the downside of one of these boxes is that you can't use it independently of the computer - with or without the FX - so your Karaoke thing might become problematic.

[JeffLearman]

Note that none of these will handle your electric guitar -- assuming you mean passive pickup electric guitar, and not acoustic guitar with active pickups. (It's fine for the latter.)

 

For your electric guitar, you have three options, in addition to whatever solution above you choose:

 

1) Instrument preamp. In this case, you'll get your electric guitar without any guitar amp & speaker cabinet tone. I doubt that's what you want. You can get software to do it; I know at least one good package for $500 -- which is not where you're going.

 

2) Mic your amp. If you have an electric guitar, I assume you have an amp. It might also have a line output; if it does, then you'll get the tone from the preamp circuitry, but not the power circuitry or speaker, so at the least you'll need speaker modeling software. I know a free one that doesn't suck too terribly considering the price, and way better than nothing. Otherwise, see $500 above.

 

3) Guitar amp/cab modeling unit (pedal or tabletop unit). These are great for recording electric guitar silently. They're not as good as a good tube amp, and you don't get subtle yet important acoustic feedback effects. However, they sound better than most attempts at miking an amp in a home studio. A *lot* better. Miking a guitar amp is an art and a science that you can spend hours and hours of joyous time on, since there are so many possibilities.

 

BTW, you can use many MOTU boxes without the computer. I'm not sure about th particular one mentioned here.

 

One issue with MOTU is that their sofware is better for Mac than Windows -- or at least, it used to be. Still worthy of consideration, but for details on what the software can do, be sure to be specific about the OS. (I use an old MOTU828 with Windows.)

[heehee62]

Thanks learjeff - that's a very good point. What free modeling software were you thinking of? Will get a pedal eventually probably but I just haven't really needed it so far with my beginning guitar skills.

 

 

 

 

[Griffinator]

Hadn't really thought of that, Jeff, just assumed the guitar would either be mic'ed or someone would spring for NI GuitarRig (the absolute best modeling software on the market)

[JeffLearman]

NI Guitar Rig certainly took the cake when it came out a few years ago. I haven't kept up since then.

 

The free VST I referred to above was *very* simplistic, at http://mda-vst.com. The whole lot of freebies there is worth picking up. They're best for the simple math things, like the Mid-Side codec ("Image"). I never found a use for their tube model; I used (free) RubyTube instead and that's still a pretty serious compromise but still well worth the effort of finding, downloading, and installing if you've got nothing else.

 

With the two of those, I did manage to get some electric guitar tones that didn't make me puke.

 

Regardless, for anyone getting started using VST plugins, the free MDA ones are worth going through one at a time to see what they do. Later on you'll replace most of them with better cheap or not-so-cheap software, but it's nice to know what kinds of tools can be in the kit even if they're not all superb.

 

For sample rate conversions, use "r8brain", easily googled. Another handy tool in the kit, especially if you'll be doing any collaborations with other musicians over the internet.

 

[Griffinator]

MDA's plugs have always been awesome. They've been doing those freebies for years.