Keyboard Weight? The Hidden Problem...

[HammondDave]

When I was a teenager and we used to gig with my C3... the band would wait until after everything was loaded... then look back at the stage and pause... like.. "Maybe if we just left it there...".. and then I would reply: "You want to try to play Deep Purple without a Hammond?"

[Steveaudio]

When I was in my 20's & early 30's, I gigged with a Rhodes Stage '73 & a Fender Twin. And for a lot of that time, also an Arp String Ensemble (anyone remember those?), in a heavy case. Usually I moved all of those myself, using a dolly, & I had a "technique". The other guys were packing up their own gear, of course.

 

Years Later, about 10 years ago, my back became so bad I saw a chiropracter. W/O knowing anything about me, when she saw my x-rays, she said, "What have you been doing, moving pianos?".

 

Recently, I bought a Kurzweil SP88x from a friend, who's about 50. He helped me move it, & we kept remarking about how heavy it was. I sold it ASAP, partly b/c of the 52 lb. weight, just moving it to a diff. part of my house was ridiculous. (When they say it's a "weighted KB", they're not kidding!).

 

But the guy who came to buy it, picked it up by himself like it was a feather, & carried it out to his truck by himself, go figure......

[David Loving]

I did a gig last night with more gear than I'll take tonight. Tonight I'll go with 2 peavey pr10's and a small qsc amp, px330 and a NE2/61 +vent. I tried to get down to one board, but I did not want to play piano on the nord's keys, and I couldn't live with the px330's organs. But I'll get punished for being so picky. The gig's in an upstairs bar. I agree about the pc2. I have one, and I swear it's made out of fishing weights. It has got to weigh more than Kurz claims.

 

Holy cow, I have been posting here 10 years! just noticed.

[VegasGT3]

I have two general rigs:

1) It's my show and I will be there all night. (may need help, but can do it myself if I have to)

2) I am opening up for someone or part of a festival. (I'm beating the guitar player off the stage!)

 

Usually, you want to get on and off the stage ASAP and that means your band members can't always help you in a timely manner. Our drummer has the same philosophy.

 

[scales]

Stee-V, how old are you? A lot of us old timers (49) have back issues. I'm no weakling by any stretch of the imagination but have 3 bad disc. And if you're a one man band you may not have the opportunity to get help. I have to load my equipment from my house by myself. I can lift 50 or 60 lbs. but I will pay the price for days.

[Michelle ggurl]

My PC2 is reported to be 40 pounds (feels heavier to me), and it is heavier than I want.

I just checked their web site, and they said it was 35 pounds. They must have weighed it on the Moon. I had one briefly and it was a tank. I guess part of the problem is the sheer size of the thing, there's no comfortable way to get your arms around it, so I think weight starts to get distributed toward muscles that can't handle it as well. And weight farther from your body feels heavier than weight closer to your body.

 

I think that's one of the things that makes it hard to come up with an "absolute" cut off of how heavy a keyboard you can deal with. At a given weight, one keyboard can still seem lighter than another. Besides what I mentioned above, other things that can come into play are, is it well balanced or is it heavier on one side? Are there good places to grip it? Plus, as Adan alluded to, there is the little known law of physics that says that things get heavier at 2 am.

 

They say it's 35pounds? LOL, no friggin' way! I recalled a manual I have somewhere saying "39.6 lbs" so that is close enough to 40 for me ... I can believe 40 but even if they made the thing a perfect square and we attribute it feeling heavier to center of gravity/awkward shape, no way in hell would they convince me it is only 35. I should put mine on a bathroom scale and see what I get. I cracked up when I read your comment that they must have weighed it on the moon, LOL, still laughing!

 

I agree totally though that the depth of this board makes it pretty awkward; that's one thing I noticed while kicking tires on a Roland RD300, was how thin its depth was. That made it so easy to pick up! I love a lot about my PC2 and still even when I shop for new boards and bring headphones with me, the newer ones just don't have a good a sound quality overall, throughout the various patches. But since I'm starting to gig a little more -- still not every weekend, but a jump in frequency nonetheless -- I am going to have to find an alternative ... with decent weight AND sounds. Looking at Roland RD300/FP4 and the Kurz SP4 if I can demo one ... well, that's just me talking to myself now, LOL.

 

But, to the OP, can you now see how and why weight is such an issue we sweat over (literally) when we put our rigs together? For most if us it's a very deliberate, painstaking decision. Our backs are at stake. And ya really only get one of those, some of us truly learning that only after it's too late and the damage is done ...

 

 

[Polkahero]

I'll probably regret it down the road but I just traded my 33 lb. non-weighted synth for a 60 lb. weighted synth. The improvement in keyboard action is worth the extra weight for right now!

[clpete]

In the past the weight of my keyboards have not been a concern, but since moving to a 2nd floor apartment in Oregon and joining two new bands the RD-700 is getting to me. The weight of Xk-1 is not problem nor is any of my other equipment. Sure glad I retired my 11 space wood rack before I left Utah because it was a beast!

 

As far as getting someone to help lift the 50 lbs plus keyboard.I will ask someone if it has to be moved very far and cant be rolled. Both my keyboard cases have wheels, so I can usually drag them into gigs without help, but smaller hallways in band mates houses and some gigs requires me to take them out of the cases and carry them in. The big problem is that I have to always carry them up the stairs at home..Yeah, yeahWhine whine wine.

 

[Mr. Nightime]

Many of us here are old enough to remember gigging with Yamaha CP-70B. For those that don't, it broke down into 2 pieces for transport. The lower (action) weighed 135 Lbs. and the upper (harp) weighed 154 Lbs. When setting up, you had to lay the action on its side, put on the legs, then raise it up on its feet. Then you had to lift the harp onto 3 hinge points, and close it up. This would normally require help twice, and that doesn't count getting it TO the stage. I ended up having to figure out how to do that by myself, as in most instances, the help was nowhere to be found in the critical moment.

I'll take my current setup, where the heaviest piece is 35 Lbs.

[b_3guy]

I can have just about any keyboard I want & would like to have a Roland RD-700. But I will never get one. It's simply is too heavy. My XK-3c is nasty enough. The band just went to in-ear monitoring & I can't be happier. I can now leave my 40 lb Yorkville Bloc 100K at home. And I consider myself a pretty fit guy. I run 5 miles 3 times a week & walk 3 miles twice a week. I use to have an RD-300 in a road case. I felt like I was moving a coffin around. Then I got an Alesis QS-8 in a gig bag. At first it felt like nothing but after a while it felt like I was carrying around a log.

[Marzzz]

I hope I don't come off like being a total cheerleader for these guys, but VAX77.

[HammondDave]

In the past the weight of my keyboards have not been a concern, but since moving to a 2nd floor apartment in Oregon and joining two new bands the RD-700 is getting to me.

 

You may wish to consider renting a storage unit to keep you gear in. Lugging equipment up and down steps is insane...

[SpaceNorman]

My normal "gig rig" includes two 88 key weighted action keyboards, a rack (mixer, sound module, MIDI interface), a pair of floor wedges (I like how my stuff sounds through a stereo setup) - along with all the usual necessities like a stand, bench, mic boom and container of miscellaneous stuff (pedals, cables, mic, etc.).

 

My rig travels in my full size Ford E150 cargo van - along with a medium size club PA and lights - meaning that the keys and electronics are all in hard cases. I use a 2 wheeled hand truck when moving gear by hand. Most of my work is 4 hour gigs with a 6 piece cover band in venues that seldom involve many steps.

 

As long as the weight of any single piece maxes out at roughly 80 lbs - I can handle it myself without too much difficulty.

 

When I'm making gear decisions - as long as I not going to exceed my 80 lbs max - I tend to view the weight issue from a "what's the incremental increase?" perspective. That means that a "light" 88 keyboard weighs in at 35..ish lbs - while my CP300 weighs in at roughly 75 lbs. However, I've yet to play a 35 lb keyboard that feels and/or sounds as good to me as my CP300 does. Knowing that I'm going to need to actually lift and support that extra 40 lbs for maybe 3 minutes in the course of a gig - I figure 40 lbs for 3 minutes is an acceptable price to pay for 4 hours of enjoyment I get playing on an instrument that I truly love.

 

I realize my rig is "beefy" by most of today's standards - but it's a dream compared to the days of my ol' Rhodes, Clavinet, C2 and Leslie days. Even though I'd love one of those helium filled rigs that carries itself - I've more or less resigned myself to the reality that the keyboard rig I want to play has some heft to it - and that schlepping it simply comes with the territory.

[SpaceNorman]

In the past the weight of my keyboards have not been a concern, but since moving to a 2nd floor apartment in Oregon and joining two new bands the RD-700 is getting to me.

 

You might want to consider making yourself a carrying strap. I use a 12 ft length of 1" wide nylon strap (taken from a trailer tie-down strap) that has been sewn together to make a simple loop. I slip that strap under my RD700 as it sits in the case - and simply slip my head and neck through the strap. The keyboard basically rides in the sling formed by the strap - and is supported by my shoulders and guided by my hands. It's so convenient that more often than not - I leave the case in the van and simply carry the keyboard from case to stand using the sling.

[AnotherScott]

In the past the weight of my keyboards have not been a concern, but since moving to a 2nd floor apartment in Oregon and joining two new bands the RD-700 is getting to me.

 

You may wish to consider renting a storage unit to keep you gear in. Lugging equipment up and down steps is insane...

 

I think for most people, buying lighter gear is more practical than renting a storage unit. Expense aside, if your equipment is in a rental unit, it's not available to you in between gigs to practice on, set up patches on, and just enjoy having to play with. And if you have a storage unit 15 minutes away, and it's the opposite direction of the gig, you've just added an hour of travel time in getting to and from the gig.

[AnotherScott]

I hope I don't come off like being a total cheerleader for these guys, but VAX77.

 

I'm really intrigued by the VAX77, mostly because of the raves I've heard about its action. But 37 pounds is still too heavy for me, and still leaves me looking elsewhere for gigs where I want 88 keys.

 

If they made an 88-key non-folding <30 pound version, I'd seriously look at that, even if it had no electronics beyond MIDI in and out jacks, just to have a great feeling lightweight 88-key board with polyphonic aftertouch. I could do all my splitting/routing/control elsewhere.

[Michelle ggurl]

Yeah, I don't need anything that folds, and that looks like an added complexity, ie, one more point of possible mechanical failure. Also, I really want something that has its own sounds. I don't want to carry modules and/or a second keyboard and add MIDI connections to my setup tasks when I just need about 4 good, basic sounds. YMMV.

[frogmonkey]

Even though I'd love one of those helium filled rigs that carries itself...

 

I'm saving up for one of those anti-gravity dollies that just sort of float along next to you.

 

[J. Dan]

At almost 40, i'm no spring chicken, though i may be considered young by some of you. However, within reason, I don't mind some heavy lifting - it keeps me in shape. For me, the big deal is time and being able get my stuff in and out of tight spaces. Besides 2 keyboards, I have my rack, guitar, sax, keyboard stand, rack stand, guitar and sax stands, cables, etc. So the fewer trips back and forth to the car, the better. Right now I can carry both keyboards in one trip (including if that means climbing stairs and everything). If they were too heavy that would mean an extra trip, which depending on the venue, can add significant time. Often after work, feeding the kids, getting ready, and driving to the gig, time is tight. Anything I can do to shave a few minutes helps.

 

Also, carrying heavy keyboards up and down narrow winding stairways to the 3rd floor is a problem - not because it's too heavy, but because it's harder to do without tearing up my walls.

[Jamie Finstad]

Ah, the days of hauling my Rhodes up and downstairs from my basement apartment into my Volkswagen Rabbit.

 

If you took out the back seat, it fit very nicely behind the front seat. The rest of the car was filled up with speakers, amps and a second keyboard of some sort.

 

These days, a Nord Stage and either in-ears or a K10. My back thanks me every gig!

 

Jamie

[Dave Ferris]

I used the Nord Piano last night on this casual at the Beverly Hills Hotel. It has a rep as being one of the tougher loadins in town. You have to lift your stuff about 5' up onto the loading dock then it's quite a hike to the ballrooms, you also have to use 2 different elevators...a MAJOR PIA !

 

The light weight and size of the NP and my one RCF TT08A speaker were perfect! They changed the whole dynamic of the gig for me, I actually had a better attitude too.

 

Everything fit just right for one trip on my Magliner Gemini Jr. dolly---sh..it wasn't falling off like it usually does when traversing those skinny hallways and navigating through the kitchen.

 

I still don't like the APs at all, but I can make it work for me. For these kind of gigs, it's "good enough". Somehow the unhappiness with the NP's sound and action were surpassed by it's portability--funny how your whole perspective changes at 57. The CP-5 is not seeing much action these days, it's just not worth it, it doesn't sound THAT good.

[Adan]

This is a major reason I use the NP. I don't feel like it's the best portable DP out there (I'd probably give the nod to the CP5 on that), but easier ingress and egress and "good enough" sounds and feel make the gig a nicer experience, which significantly affects how you feel about the whole thing, which might even positively influence your playing. The NP is definitely my favorite under-40 lbs DP. If they someday come out with a 76-key version, I'd be happy as a pig in slop.

 

I had a difficult load in yesterday. One of those harrowing double parking deals, where you just have to basically stop your car in a busy traffic lane and get everything in side as fast as you can. In the rain. It feels like trench warfare, but without the shared esprit de corps. A 55 lbs keyboard in a 20 lb case might have given me a nervous breakdown.

 

I really liked the sound and feel of the NP yesterday. Funny how this can change so much based on the amplification and acoustics. But that's a subject for another thread . . .

[carter_]

Echo Dave and Adan - it's the reason I went with the NP over the CP5.

 

Even at that, I've lately entertained picking up a privia px3 for rehearsals and lighter gigs.

 

Over the life of owning a board, weight and portability are significant factors in how often it leaves the house.

[marino]

I've been discussing this issue so many times that I don't feel like I have an obligation to explain myself anymore. I've been hauling around heavy keyboards all my life, things like Rhodes piano, Chroma with case, RD300s, Fatar 2001, and several others - not to speak of PA stuff, mixers, etc..

Now that I've developed a bad back, due in great part to the above, I need lighter keyboards. I had my back operated on twice, thanks to those years of carrying around heavy gear. If somebody feels this is a non-issue, more power to them, except maybe talk again in 20 years from now.

 

But if someone comes to ask, "why" we need lighter keyboards, frankly, I feel insulted. Try to 'think' about it for just a minute, please.

 

 

 

 

[Bosendorphen]

I used a Studiologic TMK-88 for a few years controlling an Alesis QS6.2 synth. I had the MIDI setup so I could play a piano/strings combo (with the strings volume controlled by the TMK's mod wheel) and synth/organ sounds on the QS itself. Worked quite well and the total keyboard weight was 31.5 pounds (13.5 for the TMK, 18 for the QS).

 

The TMK's action is semi-weighted although a bit light. But more importantly it has this subtle bounce-back feel which reminds you of a piano. Plus the piano-shaped keys helps the illusion. Playing it by itself it felt too light but in context with piano sounds it came alive and was very responsive. I was surprised! Sure it's no substitute for a nicely weighted action but for the festivals we did with quick load-in/out, 13.5 pounds was a dream!

 

I use a Kurzweil SP76 now as a controller for various modules (and/or with my old workhorse QS7 synth for a 2 board setup) and it's 27.5 pounds; not bad. But sometimes I hook up the TMK which I still have and consider using it again for certain gigs.

[DanL]

Many of us have been around long enough that hauling a weighed 88 note board is a relief from what we used to use- Rhodes, Hammond, etc. Still not fun, but it's a lot better than it used to be.

 

My heaviest piece now is my S90ES. It's in a soft case with wheels. Probably 60lbs total. It's not that it's so heavy, but it's awkward to move, especially when stairs are involved because it's so long. If I hold it by the side handle, the back of the case bangs on the stairs, so usually I will hoist it up on my shoulder and carry it that way. If I can, I get help and I grab one end and take the bottom, and give the handle on the end of the case to my helper.

 

Everything else I have is pretty light. Electro 73 in a soft case. My rack is down to 6 spaces and is maybe 35lbs, I have an anvil type case about the size of the rack that holds my pedals, vent, small fan, cables, and boom part for my mic stand which is about the same weight as the rack, but if I take one in each hand, it's a nice balanced load for walking. I have the QSC K10, a Standtastic stand which is in a bag, a Gibralter drum throne, and a small stand I put the rack and speaker on. I can get in and out in about 5 trips. I also haul part of our PA, 2 powered speakers that are about 35lbs each, a small suitcase with power cables/extension cords, and a couple small boxes with lights in them. None of that is heavy at all. For bigger gigs I have these 2 huge old bass bins I haul, total PITA, they are over 100lbs each and awkward to move alone. I have a hand cart I use for them, but getting them into the van at home alone isn't much fun. I'm going to buy a powered sub soon, that is smaller than these bins and more efficient than both put together, but we gotta work with what we have for now.

 

Usually I'm the 1st or 2nd one to a gig. The drummer and I haul all the PA gear between us. (in addition to what I haul, he has the mixer, a small rack with an amp for monitors and a couple processors, a vocal monitor for the singer, and some mic stands) We unload our vehicles and start setting up our own rigs,and then the bass and guitar player will roll in. The bass player sets up his rig and then sets up the speakers and runs their cables. The drummer sets up the board (he runs sound from stage). Everyone runs their own mic cords to the board. At the end of the night, everyone has a job to do in breaking down, and we all help load out. We can be loaded up in 30 mins after the last beat of the last song if we are using our small system, and maybe 45 minutes with the larger one.

[Bill W]

I have been in bands since the early 80s. Thanks to technology, my rig is considerably smaller than it used to be.

 

My rig in 1989: 5 keyboards (Roland D-70, Juno-106, Roland D-50, Roland W-30, Yamaha DX-7) and a rackmount Akai sampler (the 900 I think). I also carried a 12-space Anvil rack with a Crown PowerBase, Yamaha MV-802 mixer, Alesis Quadraverb, MIDI patch manager and the Akai. On top of this were 2 JBL G-732 cabs, multiple keyboard stands and a boatload of pedals and cabling.

 

 

My rig today: Roland Fantom G6, one keyboard stand, 3 pedals, 2 cables (to run to the PA).

 

My rule is one trip between car and venue for load-in and load-out. Set up and tear down takes a few minutes. If I need to sound like a DX7, I sample FM7. If I need a good analog pad or string patch, I sample it. I have other equipment at home (see sig), but it stays there! I'm having as much fun programming and sampling these days as I have playing.

 

[Marzzz]

I hope I don't come off like being a total cheerleader for these guys, but VAX77.

I'm really intrigued by the VAX77, mostly because of the raves I've heard about its action. But 37 pounds is still too heavy for me, and still leaves me looking elsewhere for gigs where I want 88 keys.

 

If they made an 88-key non-folding <30 pound version, I'd seriously look at that, even if it had no electronics beyond MIDI in and out jacks, just to have a great feeling lightweight 88-key board with polyphonic aftertouch. I could do all my splitting/routing/control elsewhere.

Okay, now I am cheerleading....yes it weighs 37 lbs., but you transport it in a rolling suitcase, it's no worse than luggage. Of course, compared to my (now sold and not missed) MIDIBoard, it is way lighter! I agree with you regarding a non-folding 88 key version, certainly for studio use I would have preferred something like that. With regard to that top octave, one feature they implemented (at my suggestion!) that is not mentioned is that you can use a simple footswitch to instantly transpose up an octave while playing. In practice it works great.

[Gary75]

I'm not a huge gigger, but one thing I have learnt is to be self sufficient. Asking for help is awkward and generally will bite you in the ass further down the road. 10 years ago I was gigging with a C3/122 Rhodes, but it was my first proper band, I was 25, and loving the experience, and it helped the bandmates loved the sound. But after being just a 'keyboard player' in bands, there is no enthusiasm for heavy equipment from what I experienced. I need to know I can load/unload myself should the need arise.

 

10 years ago there was not the technology to get very close to what I wanted. I love today's technology. It'll probably save the wear and tear some of the older guys have already.

[Outkaster]

We are always going to have to lug 88 note boards around, stands, cables,speakers, amps, and some kind of seat. There is a certain point you have to suck it up. I dont like the weight either but hey.