User_35092 Posted November 27, 2010 Share Posted November 27, 2010 Well,I am a reporter For X Newspaper for the musci event secttion, actually its preatty cool doing that. And i had to do a story on a Rock orchestra event. it was a 30 piece Orchestra together with a 6 person rock band including 2 drummers 1.-People paid some good money to see them together but the Rockband overpowered the 30 piece orchestra well plus the conductor. Even doe i was taking with the sound man , I was crying insed of me TURN UP THE ORCHESTRA! thinking are you deaf or something?!! The orchestra is the main attraction they are Professionals!. Even doe i talked in the half time to a Viola player about the problem at half time. He said Yes i know that And He asked me how are we sounding ? and i said the problem is that you don't sound very much at all. And he went and told the sound mand and still, some times I could verly hear the orchestra. But i could Hear the LOud guitars Solos and distortions and drums. and the little loud vocals! i know for fact the this event was really hard to do. took a lot of time money and efort all of this to be ruined by a soundman?? maybe he hated Violins ?? and was a fan of the rack band?? that is my only logical answer or maybe he was DEAF or something? it really had no logic has this ever happend to you? BTW they played together music oldies but goodies. PS NO i dont write like a usually write here lol. thank God for Editors. I get new gear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cygnus64 Posted November 27, 2010 Share Posted November 27, 2010 has this ever happend to you? About 700-800 times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcgoo Posted November 27, 2010 Share Posted November 27, 2010 The problem could just as easily been idiot musicians refusing to turn down stage volume. If it was though, the sound man should have been in their face during sound check. Very frustrating indeed. Custom Music, Audio Post Production, Location Audio www.gmma.biz https://www.facebook.com/gmmamusic/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
User_35092 Posted November 27, 2010 Author Share Posted November 27, 2010 A really sad moment. they did do sound check and all that stuff. I get new gear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cygnus64 Posted November 27, 2010 Share Posted November 27, 2010 The problem could just as easily been idiot musicians refusing to turn down stage volume. The main problem is that orchestras and rock bands go together like peanut butter and squid. It just doesn't work in concert. The amplified instruments will always win, regardless of how many mics are on the orchestra. The other problem is that the FOH soundguy is typically a rock guy. I'd like to see one with a classical guy running the board, that would be a trip. The drum mics would be turned off, the guitars pushed way below the bassoons in the mix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synthoid Posted November 27, 2010 Share Posted November 27, 2010 The main problem is that orchestras and rock bands go together like peanut butter and squid. It just doesn't work in concert. The Moody Blues could pull it off though. When an eel hits your eye like a big pizza pie, that's a Moray. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cygnus64 Posted November 27, 2010 Share Posted November 27, 2010 The main problem is that orchestras and rock bands go together like peanut butter and squid. It just doesn't work in concert. The Moody Blues could pull it off though. Yup, they could. I played that show, one reason they can pull it off is that their charts were written that way from the get-go. There's room in the arrangements. They still tour, some of their stuff from the 80s (Gemini Dream?) doesn't work as well because it was pretty much "rock band" at that point, and they just add orchestra live to keep the backing players busy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duff beer Posted November 27, 2010 Share Posted November 27, 2010 You say that you are a reporter, but you even can't spell the simplest words and don't know when capital letters should be used?? "even doe"?? "verly" hear the orchestra? Give me a break... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cygnus64 Posted November 27, 2010 Share Posted November 27, 2010 You say that you are a reporter, but you even can't spell the simplest words and don't know when capital letters should be used?? Apparently you don't read the Cleveland Plain Dealer, it's common practice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synthoid Posted November 27, 2010 Share Posted November 27, 2010 The main problem is that orchestras and rock bands go together like peanut butter and squid. It just doesn't work in concert. The Moody Blues could pull it off though. Yup, they could. I played that show, Were you actually onstage with them, or "hidden behind the curtain?" When an eel hits your eye like a big pizza pie, that's a Moray. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cygnus64 Posted November 27, 2010 Share Posted November 27, 2010 The main problem is that orchestras and rock bands go together like peanut butter and squid. It just doesn't work in concert. The Moody Blues could pull it off though. Yup, they could. I played that show, Were you actually onstage with them, or "hidden behind the curtain?" Onstage, it was an outdoor venue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synthoid Posted November 27, 2010 Share Posted November 27, 2010 When was that? I saw them live about 10 years ago, and they had 2 keyboardists. One was wearing funky velvet pajamas and the other looked like Tim Allen. When an eel hits your eye like a big pizza pie, that's a Moray. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cygnus64 Posted November 27, 2010 Share Posted November 27, 2010 When was that? I saw them live about 10 years ago, and they had 2 keyboardists. One was wearing funky velvet pajamas and the other looked like Tim Allen. It was probably 93 or 94. They made a video with Symphony around 92, and it was played on PBS so they got some revived interest and took the show on the road. This is the video: clonk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synthoid Posted November 27, 2010 Share Posted November 27, 2010 What keyboards did you use? When an eel hits your eye like a big pizza pie, that's a Moray. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cygnus64 Posted November 27, 2010 Share Posted November 27, 2010 What keyboards did you use? I played violin in the backing orch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frogmonkey Posted November 27, 2010 Share Posted November 27, 2010 It's hard to mic acoustic instruments on stage with a rock band. But still, it really is sad when the sound engineer fails to get it right. There's one guy in my town, he's been around for a long time, and he's well-known. But I think he's losing his hearing in a specific high-frequency range, because his mix is always LOUD and PIERCING. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. B. Posted November 27, 2010 Share Posted November 27, 2010 Real reporters write exceptionaly well, you do not! The reporter writes as though he/she is from another country. Yes, the Moody Blues have played with orchestra's many time and done it very well during the 70's and 80's. ELP has also played with one and it sounded great. The soundman must be a proffesional or the rock band will be too loud. The soundman needs to have experience in every type of playing situation there is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
User_35092 Posted November 27, 2010 Author Share Posted November 27, 2010 Al real waste, the orchestra sound 2 cool! it made Kursweil PC3 strings sound like a 45 dll casio. kidding aside,yea it really did, if not even more!. I get new gear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcgoo Posted November 28, 2010 Share Posted November 28, 2010 I would think that an ideal way to do rock band plus orchestra would be to have the rock band all using amp modelers, electronic drums & In Ear Monitors- i.e. no stage volume. That would allow for a mix where the orch mics could be cranked without worry of feedback (since the band wouldn't be so loud causing the orch's monitoris to be loud). A balanced mix could be achieved fairly easily with a good engineer. problem is, you'd never get a band to go along with those limitations. Custom Music, Audio Post Production, Location Audio www.gmma.biz https://www.facebook.com/gmmamusic/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JpScoey Posted November 28, 2010 Share Posted November 28, 2010 Well,I am a reporter For X Newspaper for the musci event secttion... ... Even doe i was taking with the sound man , ... I was crying insed of me TURN UP THE ORCHESTRA! ... Even doe i talked in the half time to a Viola player about the problem at half time. ... some times I could verly hear the orchestra. ... was a fan of the rack band?? ... has this ever happend to you? PS NO i dont write like a usually write here lol. thank God for Editors. Yes indeed - thank God for editors ! John. some stuff on myspace Nord: StageEX-88, Electro2-73, Hammond: XK-1, Yamaha: XS7 Korg: M3-73 EXpanded, M50-88, X50, Roland: Juno D, Kurzweil: K2000vp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JpScoey Posted November 28, 2010 Share Posted November 28, 2010 ' orchestras and rock bands go together like peanut butter and squid. Quote of the week, so far, in my opinion John. some stuff on myspace Nord: StageEX-88, Electro2-73, Hammond: XK-1, Yamaha: XS7 Korg: M3-73 EXpanded, M50-88, X50, Roland: Juno D, Kurzweil: K2000vp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cygnus64 Posted November 28, 2010 Share Posted November 28, 2010 A balanced mix could be achieved fairly easily with a good engineer. For the most part a mythical creature like the Chupacabra or Bigfoot. problem is, you'd never get a band to go along with those limitations. Agreed. In many cases, ego is one of the culprits. When the guitarists consistently ask to be turned up in the mix, there simply isn't any more room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffinator Posted November 28, 2010 Share Posted November 28, 2010 A balanced mix could be achieved fairly easily with a good engineer. For the most part a mythical creature like the Chupacabra or Bigfoot. No, we still exist, but no one wants to pay for a good engineer when so many "I know how to work the board, but have no sense of musicality" guys will take the gigs for less pay. A bunch of loud, obnoxious music I USED to make with friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcgoo Posted November 28, 2010 Share Posted November 28, 2010 no one wants to pay for a good engineer when so many "I know how to work the board, but have no sense of musicality" guys will take the gigs for less pay. Painfully true. However, one would HOPE that if an event called for something as elaborate as an orchestra plus rock band that the organizers would have the common sense to hire an established sound company (no to mention an experienced MD!) to handle what is surely a technical nightmare. Custom Music, Audio Post Production, Location Audio www.gmma.biz https://www.facebook.com/gmmamusic/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffinator Posted November 28, 2010 Share Posted November 28, 2010 no one wants to pay for a good engineer when so many "I know how to work the board, but have no sense of musicality" guys will take the gigs for less pay. Painfully true. However, one would HOPE that if an event called for something as elaborate as an orchestra plus rock band that the organizers would have the common sense to hire an established sound company (no to mention an experienced MD!) to handle what is surely a technical nightmare. The "established" sound companies are no different than anyone else regarding how much they're willing to pay their engineers.... A bunch of loud, obnoxious music I USED to make with friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. Dan Posted November 28, 2010 Share Posted November 28, 2010 We spend more for good sound - about 50% more than most of the bands. Well worth it since you can be the best band in the world and still sound like crap with a bad sound guy. There are a couple large sound companies out there that are very expensive who have run us for some of the festival type stuff if the client hires them (usually because they need a large line array system, stage, etc), and I think we sound better with the guys we normally use. Mainly because they CARE about making it sound like it should. They know the songs and get excited/have fun putting in the little touches like echo in the right place, synched up with tap-tempo, etc. Most sound guys, even good ones, get a mix set and pretty much go on auto pilot unless something requires obvious intervention. So if something's not right in the mix - like you can't hear a part, as long as it's not the lead vocal or lead guitar, and there's no feedback, they don't touch it. Dan Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanker. Posted November 28, 2010 Share Posted November 28, 2010 Most sound guys, even good ones, get a mix set and pretty much go on auto pilot unless something requires obvious intervention.I would say that in particular, unless you're talking about specific circumstances like yours, a good sound man DOES set it and forget it unless there's a problem, or the band sucks. A good band should mix itself, regarding levels and all that sort of stuff. Bad soundmen are the ones who feel a need to constantly twiddle faders, add effects because they have them, gate drums to death, and never settle on an actual mix.... A ROMpler is just a polyphonic turntable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Muscara Posted November 28, 2010 Share Posted November 28, 2010 But really bad soundmen leave the board and are nowhere to be found when it's time to pull the vocal mic up for that one part of the song for the soloist, or when the band onstage is trying to get an adjustment... "I'm so crazy, I don't know this is impossible! Hoo hoo!" - Daffy Duck "The good news is that once you start piano you never have to worry about getting laid again. More time to practice!" - MOI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffinator Posted November 28, 2010 Share Posted November 28, 2010 But really bad soundmen leave the board and are nowhere to be found when it's time to pull the vocal mic up for that one part of the song for the soloist, or when the band onstage is trying to get an adjustment... Leaving the board for extended periods of time isn't just bad soundman, it's incompetent soundman. Go get a drink, go hit the head if it's an emergency, but don't leave the board unattended to go party with your friends. A bunch of loud, obnoxious music I USED to make with friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Alfredson Posted November 28, 2010 Share Posted November 28, 2010 You say that you are a reporter, but you even can't spell the simplest words and don't know when capital letters should be used?? "even doe"?? "verly" hear the orchestra? Give me a break... It's pretty obvious that the poster is not a native English speaker. Cut him some slack. It was probably more the rock band's problem that the sound guy's problem. Doing a soundcheck is one thing, but once the show starts, there's not much you can do if the guitarist is cranking his amp. Keep it greazy! B3tles - Soul Jazz THEO - Prog Rock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.