80's vrs 90's Music

[Dannyalcatraz]

What picker said about the '80's and '90's music not happening without what came from the '60's, '70's and all others is true. I have one nephew who says he "hates" rock'n'roll. I could never pin him down on what he means by that. But he's big into rap and hip-hop(whatever THEIR diferrences are), and can't seem to grasp the realization that none of it would have BEEN possible without rock'n'roll in the first place.

 

I can't quite agree with this conclusion.

 

Rap & hip-hop share some common origins with rock- especially with blues and jazz elements- but I'm not so sure it wouldn't have existed but for rock. I see it more as a parallel evolution of music. They're rock's cousins, if you will.

 

OTOH, certain innovations require a context, and even though rap & hip-hop are not lineal descendants of rock, it's possible they may not have existed without the context of what rock did in popular culture. Certainly, the evolution of turntableism within both genres would have sounded radically different had they started scratching Gene Krupa, Count Basie and Duke Ellington as opposed to James Brown and Parliament/Funkadelic.

[Marc Jeffrey]

Overall I like more music from the 90s than the 80s. It's down to styles. I liked Americana/Alt-country and grunge. I did not like hair metal or most techno-pop/synth stuff. There was some interesting alternative (then called "college radio") music being made in the 80s. And a late great guitar player in Stevie Ray Vaughn. But it was also the decade when many of my faves from the 60s and 70s - Dylan, Neil Young, Stones - produced some of their weakest records. All of whom made better music in the 90s, IMO.

[Griffinator]

As I said... flame away... I stand firm... but I do, by the way, have a master's degree in classical guitar performance, so the implication that I don't "really appreciate music" is inaccurate to say the least.

 

1) I did not flame you.

 

2) Nowhere in that post did I implicate that you "don't really appreciate music" - I told you my story, including my background and perspective, in response to your perspective.

 

A bit of a martyr complex, eh?

[webe123]

As a younger member (from what I can read) I wonder if the more experienced players agree with me that 80's rock and 90's rock, with a few exceptions, sucked?

 

Thanks

 

Where do you get that 80's music sucked? How old are you? Apparently not old enough to know what good music is! Yes there were people who tried to put as much notes into a guitar solo as possible, but there were other guitarists that were just as good, yet did not have to put everything they knew into a minute solo.

 

And if I had my "druthers", I would rather listen to the music of the 60's 70's and 80's than the mind numbing rap or hip hop or even lady ga ga of this era!

 

No wonder you have idiots today that think because they can win at "guitar hero" they act like they just played before a stadium filled crowd! It is no different than the "dumb down" of guitar nowdays....it is mostly three or four chords...any idiot can do it. I'm Not saying there are some great players out there, but what you hear on the radio or mainstream is mostly so easy, you can fall asleep playing it.

[Larryz]

I'm still stuck in the 50's 60's & 70's...

[Terrell]

I'm stuck...

[GuitarPlayerFL]

I'm going backwards to the 50s...or retro bands that sound like they're from that era.

 

The singers in my band pick the tunes...99% I've never heard of and half of those I can't understand why anybody would want to listen to.

[webe123]

The singers in my band pick the tunes...99% I've never heard of and half of those I can't understand why anybody would want to listen to.

 

 

Sadly, the same can be said for mainstream radio now...maybe they are just rehearsing songs they heard on the radio?

[picker]

I think that anytime rock stops being dance music, it starts losing vitality. The anti-virtuosic backlash of the 80's & 90's was fed by the fact that rock had become a spectator sport rather than participatory. Sure, the music had become more advanced harmonically, more intelligent, and technically better music. I don't think I really agree with the accusation that rock in the 70's had become self-indulgent, at least not exactly. I think the audience developed more sophisticated tastes, and there was a demand for what came out. Believe me, the suits wouldn't have risked their careers pushing music that wouldn't sell just because it was better music.

 

But then the audience changed, and they wanted stuff they could move with. Disco creeped(good word for it) in because it gave folks a chance to be a part of the experience. Girls got to dress up and be seen, and guys got to get clothes horse-ish too (let's face it, everybody likes stylin' to some degree), and it was a natural backlash against the whole denim bellbottoms & T-shirt dress code of the 60's & 70's. And, everybody got to dance, which 70's rock really kind of lost. I kinda believe punk mosh pits were both a backlash against and, in a weird way, an extension of disco. But, that's just an opinion, and one I haven't thought much about, really.

 

I read stuff on this forum sometimes about how guitarists need to deepen their knowledge and sophisticate their abilities, learn to read music, work with advanced harmonic theory, etc & so on, to make better music. That's true if making better music is the goal of the musician. But rock music & rock & roll is about that rhythm that makes people move. It doesn't have to be sophisticated, I think history shows that. It just has to rock people enough to make 'em dance. If you can get that going, you'll never have a hard time drawing an audience, whether you're playing high-precision techno/funk/jazz, three chord blues, or one-chord boogie.

[skipclone 1]

Well I think the value of `learn as much as you can`-which was told to me once upon a time as a kind of `advice in under five seconds` by Steve Morse-is not so much to push more complexity on listeners, rather to have more longevity as a player. When and if the listeners, or you, get tired of the same old boogie and want to hear something else, or if you as a player get invited by someone to a project which is out of your usual zone but a once in a blue moon chance-well there`s that old saying about success equaling opportunity meeting preparation.

[Virtual Jim]

If you believe the 50s had the best music, I ask you:

(How Much Is) That Doggie in the Window? Really?

 

If you believe the 60s had the best music, I ask you:

Sugar, Sugar? Really?

 

If you believe the 70s had the best music, I ask you:

The Carpenters? Really?

 

If you believe the 80s had the best music, I ask you:

Poison and Warrant? Really?

 

If you believe the 90s had the best music, I ask you:

Seven Mary Three? Backstreet Boys? Really?

 

If you believe the 00s had the best music, I ask you:

Ashlee Simpson? Really?

 

If you believe 2010 had the best music, I ask you:

Mike Posner? Really?

 

Do we see a theme going here?

 

Meanwhile:

Overlooked 50s: Ornette Coleman, Eddie Cochran

Overlooked 60s: Shocking Blue, MC5, The Stooges

Overlooked 70s: Augustus Pablo, Television, Voidoids, Pere Ubu

Overlooked 80s: X, almost all the bands covered in Our Band Could Be Your Life

Overlooked 90s: Drive Like Jehu, Rocket From the Crypt, Manic Street Preachers (in America), Local H, Superdrag, Triple Fast Action, The Jesus Lizard, Slint, My Bloody Valentine, Ride, Black Heart Procession

Overlooked 00s: These Arms Are Snakes, Dub Trio, Blood Brothers

 

Do we see a pattern forming here?

 

62SG, what constitutes good?

[Eric Iverson]

In response to the comment from one of the posters: "I think a lot of this anti-virtuoso sentiment is from sour grapes from guys who can't hang."

 

EXCUSE ME, BUT MY GRAPES DO HANG, YOUNG MAN!

 

This is all nonsense, anyway. Any generation produces a small handful of geniuses and thousands of musically talented people, some of whom produce meaningful music - in spite of corporate America, record companies, whoever happens to be president, etc. etc. Some of them might be playing in your neighborhood as we speak... or have recordings you could purchase - or at least a You Tube where you could check them out!

 

In the meantime, I'm going to put on my Dracula costume, slay a virtuoso or two, drink their blood, and see if it helps me with this Bach piece I'm working on......

[SEHpicker]

Careful Eric, you might inspire me to write another poem...

SEHpicker

[J. Dan]

As has been said, every decade has good music and bad music. The real question you're asking about is the quality of the music that was most popular from the decade. Although even that is a slippery slope. People remember decades differently than reality. Everybody remembers the 80's as a decade of excess, cheesey styles, music videos.... but when you look past the caricature of the 80's that people see in their minds, there was some good music. Same with the 90's. It wasn't all grunge. But if you want to ask the question "why is our current image of the 80s what remains", and "why is our current image of the 90s what remains", and what do you think of the music that represents, then thaose are different types of questions.

[Terrell]

As has been said, every decade has good music and bad music. The real question you're asking about is the quality of the music that was most popular from the decade. Although even that is a slippery slope. People remember decades differently than reality. Everybody remembers the 80's as a decade of excess, cheesey styles, music videos.... but when you look past the caricature of the 80's that people see in their minds, there was some good music. Same with the 90's. It wasn't all grunge. But if you want to ask the question "why is our current image of the 80s what remains", and "why is our current image of the 90s what remains", and what do you think of the music that represents, then thaose are different types of questions.

 

+1

 

deep...

[Bottom End]

Interesting experiment: Using satellite or Internet radio select groups from the '80's and '90's, and see how much trash versus treasure come up in a few hours of listening.

 

Living in suburbia in the early '80's I heard a lot of movie-soundtrack pop and hair-metal, but once I moved to a big city with a lot of college radio and import-record stores, I found out there was a lot more going on. Living in Europe for most of the '90's I also heard a lot more music than I would otherwise have known.

[J. Dan]

Not to take this too far OT, this scenario has been discussed ad nauseum before (the "lowest common denominator cover band" discussion), but what we do is actually exploit the caricature of the 80s. The outfits we wear, wigs, stage props, and song selection - all looks and sounds very 80s to the typical fan. That's why we've been so successful. But as someone who grew up in the 80s (graduated high school in '89), I can tell you that's not how it was at all. I never dressed like that (nor did anybody else), my hair didn't look like that, and those weren't the songs I listened to. But what I listened to then would never go over in a club now. People would scratch their heads and look at us funny before walking out the door.

 

All that being said, I've come to realize that some of these songs that I automatically dismissed as bubble gum trash in the 80s actually have some pretty cool parts in them once I take the time to actually learn and perform them.

[whitefang]

True, LZ. As a child of the '60's, I never had granny glasses or Goodrich sandals.

 

the '70's had Aerosmith, the Tubes AND disco.

 

The '80's had Flock of Seagulls, Men At Work, but also offered up Joan Armitrading.

 

And on and on...

Whitefang

[Scott Fraser]

True, LZ. As a child of the '60's, I never had granny glasses or Goodrich sandals.

 

No sandals, but it was entirely bell bottoms, paisley shirts, moccasins, Nehru jackets, etc. for me. VERY 60s.

 

the '70's had Aerosmith, the Tubes AND disco.

 

And Zeppelin reaching their artistic peak, Pink Floyd's "The Wall", & lots of interesting projects from Brian Eno.

 

The '80's had Flock of Seagulls, Men At Work, but also offered up Joan Armitrading.

 

And Talking Heads, the revived King Crimson.

 

And on and on...

Whitefang

 

And through all those decades, Frank Zappa serving as our bullshit detector.

[Eric Iverson]

So who is the BS detector for the next decade? Apart from the thousands of wannabes, such as myself..... LOL

[Scott Fraser]

So who is the BS detector for the next decade? Apart from the thousands of wannabes, such as myself..... LOL

 

Hard to imagine a Zappa emerging from any decade other than the 60s & not being marginalized into absolute obscurity by an unadventurous audience.

[Griffinator]

So who is the BS detector for the next decade? Apart from the thousands of wannabes, such as myself..... LOL

 

Hard to imagine a Zappa emerging from any decade other than the 60s & not being marginalized into absolute obscurity by an unadventurous audience.

 

IDK - the younger audience with an appetite for abstract rock is growing, thanks to contributions to the genre from still-relevant Mike Patton (Fantomas, Mr. Bungle), John Zorn, and others, not to mention The Mars Volta/At The Drive-In

 

Bungle was a gateway drug of sorts for me, which led me into King Crimson, Zappa, Chrome, and the other stalwarts from way back when.

[Bottom End]

Zappa was fortunate to come along when he did, the music industry was of course in place already, but it was also possible to play damn near anywhere (gas was cheap, LiveNation/Ticketmaster didn't exist) and even get on radio (because AM was the dominant medium, all those freaky little FM stations sold cheap, and weren't being overly scrutinized, DJ's made their own playlists, no Soundscan or ClearChannel). The whole culture was being overturned, so it was fertile ground.

 

Then again, Zappa probably would have toiled away in obscurity if that's what it took to play his own music.

 

Personally, I think the BS filter is the audience's response, and while we see tons of talentless artist and product, a year later, many of those products are in the cutout bin, and the artists are forgotten.

[Eric Iverson]

Well, coming along at the right place and time is a factor for EVERYONE.

Would we have heard of the Beatles if they hit America in '54 or '74 instead of '64?

Who knows, but I doubt it! Though they'd probably been able to make a living at it.....

[Larryz]

The Beatles may not have hit America until the early 60's but that didn't stop them from making hits out some early 50's stuff from songs like Chuck Berry's Roll Over Beethoven or Rock and Roll Music...or some earlier stuff like there were bells on a hill but I never saw'er them ringing...