Ahead of the beat. Behind the beat. On the beat. Pocket.

[NewImprov]

When I'm comfortable and playing my best, I ten to phrase a little behind the beat. I think it comes from all the years I spent playing bass in funk, blues and reggae bands. The drummers I like to play with the most are guys that play a little behind the beat as well. When I'm stressed out or over caffienated, I tend to push the beat. In the new latin band I recently started playing in, I'm kind of pushing myself to play more right on the beat, but the percussionists tell me that there's a cool thing that happens when I'm sitting behind the beat on solos and melodies, while they are pretty on top of it. I'm a lot more conscious of pocket now than I used to be, but it's not exactly like I can control it at will, it's more like I instinctively find the consensus in the band of where the pocket is and play to that.

[Eric Jx]

Let me through another aspect of this discussion out there - and the one that makes me least comfortable - patches with slower attacks. Sometimes with certain patches, I have to play way ahead of the beat to compensate for a slower attack so that it lands properly with the beat. Feels horribly uncomfortable. Similar experiences> Strings ar a big culprit, and even sometimes brass.

 

 

Honestly, when it comes to pads and other slow attack patches, I don't think playing exactly on the downbeat is super critical.

 

However I have to admit I do the same thing...it's a mental thing I can't get passed.

 

[frogmonkey]

I guess I asked because I dont think about it too much. Feel is paramount to playing different styles and all you have to do is know the rules. For example I dont do stuff in Reggae music that I would in a Santana song. Or there is some phrasing that only works in different styles. I take it on a case by case basis and learn about what I have to for the gig. It does not matter if it is studio, new project, or whatever. Really a lot of it comes down about knowing what pieces go in what place in the song. I guess you cant teach that.

That makes sense, definitely. I have a wicked analytical streak, so I get this drive to figure everything out intellectually and get to the bottom of it- almost like I'm trying to find the science behind a feeling. It's a bit of a paradox, because as a player I'm all about the ecstatic freakout.

 

I'd like to be able to access these different feels at will, and to practice them systematically. I think there are two aspects of it that I'm trying to strengthen:

 

1- the perceptual aspect. Hearing a feel (or feeling it) and being able to identify "that feel is because the Bass is right on the beat, the snare is laying back, and the guitar is pushing," or whatever the case may be.

 

2- the technical aspect. Being able to consciously put my playing ahead, behind, or right on.

 

 

I'm sure most, if not all of you are talking about doing this by feel. However, I wonder if anyone knows if this subject has ever been quantified? I've searched for info a while back but never found anything. It could have been my search terms, though.

 

I have never heard or read much specific talk about this. The most I ever heard about it from professors in the "Jazz/Contemporary" degree I did, is that it exists. I really consider it one of the arcane secrets of music

 

I did find something once about swing in samba- not swing like we know it, but a consistent asymmetry in groups of four 16th notes. Some drummer posted his computer analysis on the web. The first 16th is right on, the 2nd is behind, and the 3rd and 4th are ahead.

http://reocities.com/TimesSquare/metro/9360/samba/sambadrums.html

 

 

I won't tell anyone how to live their life, but smoke a big joint...

Being the rigorous analytical tone scientist that I am, I have done a detailed study of this hypothesis with no definitive results.

 

 

Out of curiosity, did you study with Rebeca Mauleon? She's awesome

 

Yes, I did. And yes, she is. Nice person too, and someone I am happy to consider a friend.

 

I figured you must have been doing just fine with the salsa pocket, actually. I can imagine, from your description, that the timbale player must have thrown you for a loop, LOL! I can only imagine Cuba by way of Trinidad. Are you doing original music in the quartet?

 

Rebeca's books opened a lot of musical doors for me.

 

The quartet does mostly play original music. Most of the compositions are pretty simple, just an excuse to feature some groove or another, and give the excellent percussionists some room to stretch out We do a few jazz tunes with Latin rhythm, and Latin jazz standards like "Cubano Chant", but less of that lately. I say "lately" but last night was our first quartet gig in a year. But I added a bunch of salsa tunes to the repertoire, charts that I had already written for the 10-piece band, with me covering (not really) the horns and vocals on the piano. "Traigo Salsa" by Ismael Rivera, "Kimbo Kimbesa" by Graciela, and "Que Lio" by Hector Lavoe all worked really well! I think that's going to be the new bag of the Quartet I also cranked out a few throw-away cha cha cha charts for the occasion, because I knew there would be dancing- just a bassline and a few sets of hits that I would cue. Well, I've gotten off the subject, but hopefully I'll have a good recording to share soon.

 

Back to the pocket, what is the piano doing in the opening rhythm? I have been laying back there, but listening now, I'm not so sure.

[video:youtube]fXVMJe4Sqj0

 

Bonus question: what the heck IS that piano?