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Kurzweil PC3 as midi controller


Tonysounds

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....My minimalist rig for tonight's private function gig:

VAX-77 with Voce V5 for drawbar control

Muse Receptor running Ivory II, Scarbee, VB3, Kontakt

1 EV sxa360

 

Small wireless router in the rack with the Receptor, and any tweaks can be made on my iPad, which I will also use to find the gig and liisten to music on the way there.....

....and use to take a picture of your (very cool) rig to share on the forum! :thu:

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing."

- George Bernard Shaw

 

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Hello Tonysounds,

 

The best way to see the PC3 ease of use is to see the screens - as you requested. now this is the "Default Setup" in SETUP mode. I have left out the button screens 2-4 and 6 -10 as they are the same as the pictured button pages 1 and 5. (Yikes ! What a mouthful that was.) :laugh:

 

Now just think you are on a PC3 now pressing the buttons on the bottom of the LCD, and your on your own virtual PC3.

 

Just note that these are the new Version 2.0 screens.

(Hope Dave and Kurzweil co do not mind me showing these).

 

http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/2070/pc3d67.png

 

http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/9228/pc3d68.png

 

http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/9228/pc3d68.png

 

http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/4034/pc3d70.png

 

http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/6279/pc3d71.png

 

http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/793/pc3d72.png

 

http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/6605/pc3d73.png

 

http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/4637/pc3d74.png

 

http://img811.imageshack.us/img811/4707/pc3d75.png

 

http://img607.imageshack.us/img607/8850/pc3d76.png

 

 

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I'm not sure I exactly understand all aspects of what you're saying, but what I'd like is a unit that is 19" wide so that it *could* be rackmounted, but is as high as necessary (4 units or more is fine with me) to accommodate a full working front panel surface which would also facilitate tabletop style operation. Since it will have all that height, ideally the boards could be placed high rather than deep so that the box itself would not be high when placed on a tabletop (or deep when placed in a rack), kind of like the rack version of the Nord Lead 2X.

 

If were talking about a PC3(K) as a MIDI controller, but imagine any other form factor but a keyboard version, most users demand is to get exactly all the physical controls and the display existing on a PC3s frontpanel in a rack or desktop format,- but this isn´t possible,- not w/ a rack of 4 HU or w/ a desktop which is 19" wide.

Eventually it would be possible if the faders change to pots/knobs but eventually it has to be a completely new circuit boards layout and more,- a new product.

 

Depending on a rack solution, most customers today want a 1 or 2 HU solution and the depth is also to discuss.

I´m sure, the PC3 circuit boards would fit in a 3 or 4HU rack, but then is a tone generator and no MIDI controller anymore.

 

In addition, the UI software would need a overhaul or re-write because the available space on a racks front panel is limited for physical controls,- which also rules for a formfactor of a Nord Lead 2X rack which is only WDH 17.3 x 6.3 x 4.3" without rack ears.

I doubt, all the physical controls, connections, display and circuit boards of a PC3 would fit in a Nord Lead rack type chassis.

 

And, if a desktop form factor for a PC3 MIDI controller becomes the size of a p.ex. Oberheim Xpander, we come close to the point you could better buy a PC3K w/ 61 keys.

 

Kurzweil, like every other company is profit oriented, they are working on new products anyway and a desktop/rack PC3 incl. all the physical features of the keyboard versions would be another new future product they actually don´t want to invest money and time into.

 

You´ll see a flagship product like a "K3000" before.

 

A.C.

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Why would someone max it out for 16 zones? Using 4 to 8 zones would be enough for many players. You can use a 49 keyboard for it's controller capabilities. MIDI it to a 61 to 88 keys and treat it like a rackmont/ desktop. Having a 49 keyboard is just a benefit.

My point for making a smaller board is for portability. I can imagine a few musicians getting a PC361 and using it as a "module" substitute if a rackmount isn't made.

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desktop/rack PC3 incl. all the physical features of the keyboard versions would be another new future product they actually don´t want to invest money and time into.

 

IMO, there's zero need for a PC3 rack to have the controllers on the front panel. The whole point of having a rack version is to have all the great PC3's sounds and 16 zone setups but tucked away in a rack.

 

Basic programming could be done from the front panel on a smaller screen and deeper editing with the software editor.

 

Controllers should be assigned on your controller where your hands are. No need for sliders on the rack itself.

 

I'd rather have a 1U version with a small screen and some buttons than a 4U desktop version with a bunch of sliders I don't need.

Ian Benhamou

Keyboards/Guitar/Vocals

 

[url:https://www.facebook.com/OfficialTheMusicalBox/]The Musical Box[/url]

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In addition, the UI software would need a overhaul or re-write because the available space on a racks front panel is limited for physical controls,- which also rules for a formfactor of a Nord Lead 2X rack which is only WDH 17.3 x 6.3 x 4.3" without rack ears.

I doubt, all the physical controls, connections, display and circuit boards of a PC3 would fit in a Nord Lead rack type chassis.

 

I was using Nord Lead as an example of the approach, I didn't mean it had to fit into exactly that box. Make it 5u high. Or 6, 7, 8... like a rack-mounted mixer. Whatever size it needs. Another way to look at it: like a Korg M3M, except reduce the width enough to fit into a rack, and add height to make up for it.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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IMO, there's zero need for a PC3 rack to have the controllers on the front panel. The whole point of having a rack version is to have all the great PC3's sounds and 16 zone setups but tucked away in a rack.

 

If you have read my posts carefully, you should be aware I just only followed Allans "dream" #2243123 - 11/05/10 06:49 AM .

In fact, I´m also not a friend of a large rack version w/ all the controls on is frontpanel but would dream of a small rack version w/ a desktop remote-controller, this maybe as an option for those who don´t want the action of the Fatar keybeds. But that´s only "dream".

 

OTOH, you´re right w/ your imagination of a rack version.

I´d hope for a voice spillover feature in addition doubling the polyphony for those who already own or will buy a Kurz PC3 keyboard instrument.

 

Basic programming could be done from the front panel on a smaller screen and deeper editing with the software editor.

 

No, that´s not o.k. for me.

If I buy hardware at it´s price, I want to do all with it.

I´m not a friend of software editors at all because these can be one more source of errors in addition.

I hate to deal w/ all these updates strategys of software manufacturers releasing buggy software too early making the customer their beta tester.

 

Controllers should be assigned on your controller where your hands are. No need for sliders on the rack itself.

 

That´s right and that´s what a desktop remote controller would offer.

 

I'd rather have a 1U version with a small screen and some buttons than a 4U desktop version with a bunch of sliders I don't need.

 

ditto !

 

A.C.

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why not a 49 key. It would be bigger than a rackmount/tabletop, but a lot more portable than current versions. Still to hard to produce?

 

16 Zones for 49 keys,- are you sure ?

 

A.C.

 

Look at it as a desktop module that just happens to have its own small keyboard attached. Like a Korg MicroX.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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I'd rather have a 1U version with a small screen and some buttons than a 4U desktop version with a bunch of sliders I don't need.

 

We're really taking about two entirely different devices here.

 

There are people who want a PC3K without a keyboard (with the side issue of whether it should be rack-mountable, tabletop, or as I prefer, something that can function either way). These people want *all* the functionality of a PC3K, but without the keyboard. That way they can fly their rig to a gig via carry-on and just plug into whatever keyboard is supplied, and still have all the same displays and controls that they would have if they had brought along a PC3K8. Or maybe they already have a perfectly nice 88 they like, maybe even something lightweight like a Yamaha P95 or Privia, and want almost the same functionality as a PC3K8 but without replacing their 20-something pound keyboard with a 50-something pound keyboard. Or they simply want to add to the functionality they have rather than replace it. This is the category for people who might want the '4U+ desktop version with sliders you don't need.' They are looking for the full functionality of a PC3K, not just the sounds, without having to add an entire new keyboard or replace one they have, or having to carry around something of the PC3K's size and weight.

 

Then there are people who, like you, just want 'the great sounds and setups.' Programming, if needed at all, could be done elsewhere and loaded in. Real-time controls would be limited to and based on whatever your existing keyboard has. That's really a different kind of piece. Both have their place.

 

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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AnotherScott, if your evaluation of the rackmount/desktop market is correct then this is probably the single biggest reason nobody makes them anymore.

 

Some people want 1U neatly tucked away and will deal with the awkward and difficult programming, others want desktop versions for their studios without any keys. Others still want a 49-key version.

 

Personally I think that's ridiculous. You either want a keyboard (61, 76 or 88) or you want a rack mount.

 

Being a rackmount user, the less space it takes up in the rack the better. The point of having a rack is to have a larger number of synths/sounds without having to carry more than a 2-keyboard stack.

 

Also, even without the sliders and buttons, the PC3r would still have all of the same functionality as a PC3 keyboard. It's just that the controls would have to be transmitted through midi by your controller. This could be a keyboard or something like a BCF2000.

Ian Benhamou

Keyboards/Guitar/Vocals

 

[url:https://www.facebook.com/OfficialTheMusicalBox/]The Musical Box[/url]

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Some people want 1U neatly tucked away and will deal with the awkward and difficult programming, others want desktop versions for their studios without any keys. Others still want a 49-key version.

 

Personally I think that's ridiculous. You either want a keyboard (61, 76 or 88) or you want a rack mount.

 

No, you either want a keyboard (61, 76 or 88) or you want a rack mount. :-) Seriously, I think there are perfectly good reasons for other options to have appeal as well, which I mentioned.

 

Being a rackmount user, the less space it takes up in the rack the better. The point of having a rack is to have a larger number of synths/sounds without having to carry more than a 2-keyboard stack.

 

Well, as I said, "the point" may be different for different people.

 

For "box 'o sound" purposes, I actually prefer half-width rack modules, like the Roland JV-1010. (Korg, Kurzweil, and Gem have made some others.) You can still rack mount them if you want, but in many cases, you can easily place them right on your controlling keyboard for more convenient access, less bulk to carry around, and less cumbersome wiring. 19" is often too wide, and so many of those pieces are often too deep. In fact, I think pieces like the Motif Racks and others may be unnecessarily big simply because they actually do try to provide some semblance of editing capability in the unit via the front panel, which is an exercise in futility to begin with. Either give us a full usable control surface, or make the thing as small and light as possible. This "split the difference" approach is an unfortunate compromise, IMO.

 

But sometimes you do want more than a box o' sounds, you want full interactivity with the interface. In the case of the PC3K, that's the split... some people like you just want the box o' sounds, and some want the whole shebang without having to carry around a third or fourth keyboard. I'm not saying your desire is wrong by any means, I'm just saying that neither is the other one.

 

even without the sliders and buttons, the PC3r would still have all of the same functionality as a PC3 keyboard. It's just that the controls would have to be transmitted through midi by your controller. This could be a keyboard or something like a BCF2000.

Okay, so let's assume that your keyboard doesn't give you all the controls you need. Your solution is to have a 1U rack unit and drive it from a BCF2000. My suggestion is to build the guts of the rack unit INTO something like the BCF2000. Why use two pieces instead of one? Plus, the BCF2000 (or your existing keyboard controller) won't have the display, so you're still losing a lot of functionality, or you need to set it up so you can see the rack unit's display while using the alternate controls. And you're still stuck using a compromised display that fits into a 1U rack unit. And you're stuck with a generic knob/fader layout, instead of a layout that was specifically logically laid out and labelled for the intended use. My alternative eliminates all those problems. And if the device were less than 19" wide, it could still be rack-mounted for those who wanted to do that. It might not be what you want, but it is what a bunch of other people want.

 

(And remember, racks don't have to be vertical. There are plenty of rack-mountable mixers, and while they are sometimes installed vertically, they are often installed on the top portion of horizontal/slant racks. That would be a good solution for safe rack-style portability, and integration of such a tabletop unit perhaps with a couple of standard rack pieces as well, since those kinds of racks often have space below for a couple of traditional "front-loading" rack units.)

 

Another thought... If one just wants "more sounds," one can go with laptop-based solutions. One of the advantages of "real" instruments over virtual ones is arguably their whole control system, layout, display, etc. Traditional "sound-only" style rack units are more easily replaceable by computer than "tabletop modules" are (rackmountable or otherwise).

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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  • 4 years later...

Zombie alert for this 5 year old thread

 

I am bumping this for all of us who are relatively new to the PC3 series (I have a PC361) and even for those new to K or A series who havent explored Kurzweils extensive advanced controller features.

 

Ian B. and others enthusiastically explain how the V2 OS for the PC3s can turn any dumb midi keyboard controller (in my case an old Yamaha P90 or half-wit CP33 stage piano) into a smart multi-zone controller using the LocalkbdCh feature in Setup mode by simply routing your keyboard through the Kurzs midi in. Thanks to Ian and the rest of you who explained these nice features for the rest of us!

 

After I got my PC361 I scoured the 2009 printed manual for any of these features but could find nothing. Life got busy with other things and I set aside the Kurz planning to get back to it later when I had a gig that might need it. Well, that gig came up last month so I decided to explore some more. A search on google turned up this old thread and hence my bump for others

 

The reason I could find nothing in the manual is because many of the nice controller features are in the V2 OS and are not mentioned in the older printed manuals. I downloaded the V2 updates and addendum pdf to the manual and now understand how it works. It is amazing how much thought was put into this! Kurzs controller features are second to none. If you have the original PC3- series and havent downloaded the V2 OS and manual addendum this is a must! Although I probably will only use a fraction of these features, it is nice to know that it will easily cover anything that will come up in the future for this new gig I have taken on.

 

Also just to mentionI know Quick Access banks were already in OS version one, but I really love Quick Access and how the programs are easily called up from single numbers on the keypad - great for live performance!

 

Just for comparison with my old setup in my previous group I was using only one keyboard - CP33 with a Motif ES rack. Programming the CP33 with letter and number codes is stupid, but at least it has volume sliders for real time control of the two voices in split/layer mode. Plus it does have a cc pedal input for my FC7 that my P90 does not have. Of course the PC361 had plenty of pedal inputs (5!), also plenty of switches and faders, so I can use it with any midi keyboard that I personally like the feel of.

 

Which brings me to the off-the-cuff mention I originally made on this thread about the PC3R I didnt realize that I had completely derailed this thread by the mere mention of itsorry!! But, since I did mention, and never did a follow up post for my opinion of the form factor I would prefer. I am in agreement with Ian that a single rack space, the same as the PC2R is ideal for me. Why? Because I already have a rack case I am carrying anyway for my line mixer, so it would not be an extra piece of gear to haul, just a little extra weight in the case. This is why I bought the ES rack - to have all the sounds of my ES8 in a single space rack without hauling that boat around and not even to have to haul an extra piece to have them. There is a power strip in my rack case, so only one extra cable was needed to hook it up midi.

 

So yes I would prefer the single space rack over a table top type PCR3, BUT. cc and switch pedal inputs on the back of the unit would be very nice for anyone gigging with a single keyboard like any of the Yamaha or Casio slabs that dont have cc pedal input. Also please put an extra midi in and maybe two midi outs like on the keyboard versions. Suddenly you have given longevity to many of the aging slab under-achievers that many of us already own.

 

With the added cc and switch pedal inputs, I cannot think of any single piece of equipment that could add so much extra functionality to an existing setup! Oh... and dont forget to add the new German grand piano samples. :)

 

 

 

"It is a danger to create something and risk rejection. It is a greater danger to create nothing and allow mediocrity to rule."

"You owe it to us all to get on with what you're good at." W.H. Auden

 

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I was doing some programming earlier today, using one of the keys as a controller. This feature is BRILLIANT. In this case I'm playing an intro pad that's sustained with arp sw. On a cue, I'm supposed to play a string chord and a melody, two layered sounds split on the keyboard. Both cc pedals are assigned to expression, one of the switches sustains one part while the others change articulation and increase setup, respectively. So, both of my hands and feet are busy and all controllers are used - but using a key as a controller I can set the first melody note to switch pad sustain off. I could swear I have three hands sometimes. :)
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Apart from piano/organ gigs...I feel crippled when I can´t use my PC3X or PC3K6

The midi stuff is just fantastic!!!

So much that I tried to find out if Kurzweil was interested in releasing an IOS app that would be the equivalent of the PC3 Setup Mode. Dave Weiser liked that idea, but Kurzweil are too busy with other stuff, being the small company they are... :(

 

That would make a super light weight rig like a Nord Electro 61 with an Ipad possibe..."the backpack rig" :)

I tried this with the IOS app iMidipatchbay...but it´s way too limited...

 

All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.

Arthur Schopenhauer

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