Kurzweil PC3 as midi controller

[allan_evett]

I've been running VB3 in my Receptor a couple of years with zero issues live. I had a few crashes when re-assigning cc numbers via midi learn, but live it's been great. I've learned (the hard way!) to set the zone on my PC3 so that I don't have access to the 'preset' octave on VB3, that way I won't accidentaly switch to a preset but have the drawbars 'live' at all times.

 

Well, that's one big 'bug' less for my VB3/Receptor - PC3 setup

Reminds me of a session back in the 80's in which the engineer offered this bit of wit: "Time to clean the user 'head gap'".

[Ian Benhamou]

I didn't know it was that significantly updated other than number of sliders and soundset.

 

Yeah that seems to be a general misconception. Many people just focus on the triple strike grand still being there and assume the entire instrument is recycled technology.

 

The fact remains that the PC3 is a significant upgrade from any of their previous products.

[DanS]

16 zones & 2000 setups.

That's freaking awesome, my Yammie has 4 & 128.

[Tonysounds]

16 zones & 2000 setups.

That's freaking awesome, my Yammie has 4 & 128.

 

#1

This really seems like a smarter purchase than a VAX77 in terms of midi prowess.

[AnotherScott]

This really seems like a smarter purchase than a VAX77 in terms of midi prowess.

I agree... I think the VAX77's big benefit is in its portability, polyphonic aftertouch, and possibly in the feel of its keys, but the overall capability of the PC3 series is tremendous.

[Sven Golly]

This really seems like a smarter purchase than a VAX77 in terms of midi prowess.

 

Yep, but it's a hell of a lot harder to fold in half...

 

[Ian Benhamou]

16 zones & 2000 setups.

 

That's just the tip of the iceberg. What you can do with each of those 16 zones is what's really impressive.

 

For example, each zone could have it's own independent arpeggiator AND riff sequence. You have all kinds of options on how each of those arps or riffs can be triggered and synced.

 

You also have a whole bank of custom internal CC#'s (ie 129-256) which allow you to do things no other keyboard does, like change the transposition of a zone dynamically by CC#, or mute and unmute multiple zones simultaneously with the push of 1 button.

 

These are just of a few examples.

 

And did I mention the sounds?????

[Tonysounds]

This really seems like a smarter purchase than a VAX77 in terms of midi prowess.

 

Yep, but it's a hell of a lot harder to fold in half...

 

 

You did read the entire sentence (in particular the "in terms of midi prowess"), right?

 

[Sven Golly]

This really seems like a smarter purchase than a VAX77 in terms of midi prowess.

 

Yep, but it's a hell of a lot harder to fold in half...

 

 

You did read the entire sentence (in particular the "in terms of midi prowess"), right?

 

 

Yeah, I know, but I felt compelled to make the joke, so I ignored it. :D

[DanS]

For example, each zone could have it's own independent arpeggiator AND riff sequence. You have all kinds of options on how each of those arps or riffs can be triggered and synced.

 

The Yammie can do this as well, although again, on a smaller scale.

The CC stuff would just give me a migraine...

[Ian Benhamou]

The CC stuff would just give me a migraine...

 

Not if you learn how to use it effectively.

 

As a simple example, take a song where you need a 3 zone layer for the verses, a 2 zone split for the choruses, and synth lead for the bridge. You could have all the zones programmed to your needs in one setup and call up the different configurations with the push of a button or pedal or mod wheel or slider. Take your pick and program it.

 

Takes a bit more effort and programming, but once it's done your performance will be a breeze. Much better than switching back and forth between performance patches with notes cutoff and possible glitches.

[DanS]

Stop trying to give me GAS.

The Voyager almost destroyed my marriage.

[Tonysounds]

The CC stuff would just give me a migraine...

 

Not if you learn how to use it effectively.

 

As a simple example, take a song where you need a 3 zone layer for the verses, a 2 zone split for the choruses, and synth lead for the bridge. You could have all the zones programmed to your needs in one setup and call up the different configurations with the push of a button or pedal or mod wheel or slider. Take your pick and program it.

 

Takes a bit more effort and programming, but once it's done your performance will be a breeze. Much better than switching back and forth between performance patches with notes cutoff and possible glitches.

 

This is huge actually, and puts it at least on a par with the A90 (where each zone had a dedicated on/off button), if not more so. And this would be an integral feature partnering up with the Receptor. I have found with the more sample-intensive programming Im doing with the Receptor 2, that to avoid re-loads, I am using up a couple more Masters per song on my S90es and turning off any program/bank transmits when I need more or different zones, and to be able to just toggle a switch instead of calling up a whole new Master would be huge.

[Tonysounds]

This was probably already answered above with the XK88 question, but what if I wanted to partner up my XK1 (or S90es) with the PC3, fed the PC3 with the other keyboards midi out: Can I assign and control multiple zones on the external keyboard too, in other words, not just one zone from the external keyboard, but 2 or 3?

 

Say I use the XK1 transmitting on midi channel 5 (the same channel Receptor is running an organ program). Can I channelize and zone the XK1 via the PC3 to say the left half of the XK1 (and its drawbars) are sending on channel 5 and playing organ on my Receptor, and the right half of the keyboard will be controlling a zone on my JD990 module?

 

[Ian Benhamou]

Say I use the XK1 transmitting on midi channel 5 (the same channel Receptor is running an organ program). Can I channelize and zone the XK1 via the PC3 to say the left half of the XK1 (and its drawbars) are sending on channel 5 and playing organ on my Receptor, and the right half of the keyboard will be controlling a zone on my JD990 module?

 

In short, yes.

 

The upcoming PC3 2.0 OS release will now have this feature implemented. Although the update hasn't officially been released, I was one of the beta testers for Kurzweil and have the OS already loaded on my PC3.

 

Since I'd been pleading Kurzweil to implement this midi merge/re-channelize feature since day one, I spent most of my beta testing time trying out this feature in different scenarios. It works, very much like te A-90/A-70 midi in1 (remote) input.

 

The way this works is for every zone in a PC3 setup you have an input channel parameter. The values for this could be 1-16 L+M, 1-16 M, Omni L+M, Omni M or None. L is for Local (PC3 keyboard) and M is for Midi (external input). Notice you have the option of having the zone controlled by both.

 

For zones you want to control from the PC3 keyboard you assign input channel to none and it works normally.

 

In your case Tony, any zone you would want controlled from the XK-1 or S90es you would assign input channel to the transmitting channel of the external keyboard (ie 5 M). Those zones now will only respond to any midi data entering the PC3's midi input on channel 5.

 

That midi data is then treated as if it were coming from the PC3 directly and therefore any key ranges, transpositions, velocity curves, etc. set for that zone get applied to the midi data.

 

So if you wanted to split the XK-1 into 2 zones you would set up 2 zones in your PC3's setup with the corresponding key ranges and transpositions, velocity curves, etc. Then set input channel on each of those zones to 5 M and you now have a 2-way split on the XK-1.

 

The most beautiful thing about this feature is that you could at any time swap out your XK-1 for any other keyboard, as long as it transmits on midi channel 5, your splits will remain intact.

[Tonysounds]

Ok....somebody buy my Rev B Receptor! Or my K12s! PLEASE.

[Ian Benhamou]

Also, the data is re-channelized. So the input channel is 5, but then that data could be transmitted locally to another channel or to the midi out on another channel, or out the USB midi another channel or to any combination of the three.

[Ian Benhamou]

Ok....somebody buy my Rev B Receptor! Or my K12s! PLEASE.

 

I probably would if it weren't for the bullshit we went through on the Hammond.

[Tonysounds]

Send you a PM regarding that.

[DanS]

Ok....somebody buy my Rev B Receptor! Or my K12s! PLEASE.

 

I probably would if it weren't for the bullshit we went through on the Hammond.

 

USPS!!!!!!

[humannoyed]

Wow, get down Kurzweil programmers!! I am very happy to see someone re-implementing the midi "remote in" feature of the Roland A series controllers.

Looks like Kurzweil is listening to us and taking things to the next level. Great going guys!

 

Now, about that PC3R...

 

 

[allan_evett]

Now, about that PC3R...

 

Available first quarter of 2011: Tabletop, or mountable in 3 rack spaces. All front panel functionality of the PC3. Includes the new OS 2 MIDI IN routing capabilities, USB Audio Interface, LE series drum/assignable pads, new PC3 ROM block, expanded Flash RAM, and, and then I woke up....

[Al Coda]

Now, about that PC3R...

 

Available first quarter of 2011: Tabletop, or mountable in 3 rack spaces. All front panel functionality of the PC3. Includes the new OS 2 MIDI IN routing capabilities, USB Audio Interface, LE series drum/assignable pads, new PC3 ROM block, expanded Flash RAM, and, and then I woke up....

 

He, he,- nearly perfect dream !

 

I wonder why no manufacturer has the idea to built a blackbox rack unit, maybe only 1 or 2 HU,- and a tabletop controller unit including the display and all the buttons ´n sliders, running only 1 cable to the rackunit (or if it´s all MIDI only, it could be wireless).

 

Maybe the MIDI and USB connectors as well as breath control/ribbon and additional ft.-sw. and CC-pedal connector(s) could go to the tabletop too for the case kbd-controllers lack enough inputs.

The size probs were minimized and noone would have to edit a complex machine like a Kurz from the frontpanel of a rackunit mounted into a rack or w/ software.

 

The player would place the tabletop controller somewhere into his rig and the engine is elsewhere.

 

A.C.

[Ken Beaumont]

I think the perfect setup would be a module or receptor with bluetooth connectivity and an iPad app that gives full control and editing capabilities. Just add the ipad and the new iKlip.

And usb & midi for those without an iPad.

 

http://www.keyboardmag.com/uploadedImages/keyboardmag/articles/iKlip.jpg

[AnotherScott]

I wonder why no manufacturer has the idea to built a blackbox rack unit, maybe only 1 or 2 HU,- and a tabletop controller unit including the display and all the buttons ´n sliders, running only 1 cable to the rackunit

Hammond XM2 and XMC2.

 

But I prefer the idea of having things all in one tabletop piece, that could alternatively be housed in a rack. Two pieces is just that much more to house, carry, place, and wire.

[AnotherScott]

I think the perfect setup would be a module or receptor with bluetooth connectivity and an iPad app that gives full control and editing capabilities. Just add the ipad and the new iKlip.

And usb & midi for those without an iPad.

Okay, yes, that would be very cool.

[Al Coda]

I wonder why no manufacturer has the idea to built a blackbox rack unit, maybe only 1 or 2 HU,- and a tabletop controller unit including the display and all the buttons ´n sliders, running only 1 cable to the rackunit

Hammond XM2 and XMC2.

 

But I prefer the idea of having things all in one tabletop piece, that could alternatively be housed in a rack. Two pieces is just that much more to house, carry, place, and wire.

 

Yep, that´s what you want but probably never get,- from Kurz.

The thread is about Kurzweil,- no ?

Over at Sonic, a Kurz rack or desktop module is discussed and as far I understood right, it would be hard to get the circuit boards of a PC3(K), the display and all it´s controls into a 1, 2 or even 3 HU rack and on is frontpanel, except the rack would be larger.

Editing a Kurz rack from it´s frontpanel seems to be a hard task if the rack isn´t nearby the keys (which is often the case), so a desktop solution comes in mind, but also this wouldn´t be a slim device w/ all the sliders, knobs and circuit boards inside, probably the size of a Oberheim Xpander.

So,- a 2 devices solution might be the best compromize und easiest to realize.

Otherwise too much changes to the UI operation software is to be made,- a small rack w/ less controls needs more software UI pages and they don´t want to re-write all the stuff not expecting many sales.

 

A.C.

 

[AnotherScott]

Over at Sonic, a Kurz rack or desktop module is discussed and as far I understood right, it would be hard to get the circuit boards of a PC3(K), the display and all it´s controls into a 1, 2 or even 3 HU rack and on is frontpanel, except the rack would be larger.

I'm not sure I exactly understand all aspects of what you're saying, but what I'd like is a unit that is 19" wide so that it *could* be rackmounted, but is as high as necessary (4 units or more is fine with me) to accommodate a full working front panel surface which would also facilitate tabletop style operation. Since it will have all that height, ideally the boards could be placed high rather than deep so that the box itself would not be high when placed on a tabletop (or deep when placed in a rack), kind of like the rack version of the Nord Lead 2X.

[Analogaddict]

The Nord G2 engine is fantastic, it takes up one - very shallow - rackspace, you program it from a computer and everything has a corresponding cc number. For instance, you can shift between the 'variations' of a patch with the ribbon controller on the PC3... Less bulk is good for the back too. :-)

[Phil Aiken]

I think the perfect setup would be a module or receptor with bluetooth connectivity and an iPad app that gives full control and editing capabilities. Just add the ipad and the new iKlip.

And usb & midi for those without an iPad.

 

http://www.keyboardmag.com/uploadedImages/keyboardmag/articles/iKlip.jpg

 

I more or less have that now....pre- ordered the iKlip, but already use my iPad wirelessly as the front end to the Receptor.

 

My minimalist rig for tonight's private function gig:

VAX-77 with Voce V5 for drawbar control

Muse Receptor running Ivory II, Scarbee, VB3, Kontakt

1 EV sxa360

 

Small wireless router in the rack with the Receptor, and any tweaks can be made on my iPad, which I will also use to find the gig and liisten to music on the way there.

 

I'd still be happier with a grand piano and a B-3, but technology has it's place.