How many patches do you grab in a tune?

[bluzeyone]

Two to three on average for me including splits, but sometimes up to four to five if its heavy orchestration. My cousin and I were talking about the difference between keyboard, piano , and organ players and this topic came up as well. Just curious how some of you pull gigs.

[Synthoid]

Two to three on average for me including splits

 

Same here--I like to keep it simple.

 

 

[Joe P]

Interesting question, Bluezey.

 

I am in a rock and blues cover band. I have a 3 board set up but never use all three boards on one tune. I rarely do patch changes during a song. I think that is to be avoided if possible. As a matter of fact, I can only think of one time where I do that and it is in Black Crowes "Remedy" switching to the Rhodes patch there at the end.

 

So, for number of boards, it is only two at a time. Number of patches is different, since I split and layer on my lower board and split on my middle board. So to put a number on it - 5 patches max.

 

Regards,

Joe

[B3_borne]

zero

[Phred]

Its rare that I change patches on a board mid tune. I am a very bread+butter player sound wise, and I probably use the same 6-10 sounds all night. Actually let me see:

 

1. Piano with a brighter attack for fast songs

2. Piano with a mellower attack for Ballads

3. Organ with a little OD

4. Organ with lots OD

5. Brass - only 4 or 5 songs

6. One choiry synth sound - for one song

7. One flutey synth sound - for one song

8. Clav

9. Rhodes

 

 

 

[JeffLearman]

Not sure how you're counting, but for me, it's usually no changes.

 

When I'm playing with just the NE2 (without a piano underneath it), there are a couple tunes where I switch between piano and hammond, and since that takes about 1/2 sec on the NE2, I have to think ahead.

 

I never did learn to use splits very well. They always seem to goof me up.

[Bill W]

I'm using a single Fantom G6 in a 70s/80s rock band. I keep the G6 in Live mode (which supports up to 8 splits/layers). For something as simple as Separate Ways, I have 3 live setups consisting of several splits that I step through during the song using a pedal. For something more complicated there can be a lot more live setups (13 for Rosanna, 11 for Take on Me, 9 for Carry On Wayward Son, 9 for Final Countdown, etc).

[rappa29]

Zero.

 

I play organ\piano in an Acoustic Rock\Roots Rock originals band. I play 2 keyboards, a dedicated clonewheel and a synth that I play pianos (Rhodes, Wurly, acoustic) on.

 

The very few patch changes I do involve switching from a clean Wurly\Rhodes to one with effects (Phase, OD, Tremolo, etc).

 

So I guess 1 patch change in tune, but very rarely.

 

 

[SpaceNorman]

I use a two board rig - and select patches that avoid having to change setting on either board in during a song. I also avoid "splits" - preferring to position patches on two boards rather than play a split on a single board.

 

Many of my patches are heavily layered (multiple individual voice sounds wrapped into a single performance patch. I'm also big on using an expression pedal to control a layered patch - i.e., I'll layer strings over a piano patch - and use the expression pedal to bring the strings in and out.

 

Regardles of what's in the individual patch - I still keep it so that I never have to call up more than one patch on each board for a given song. I hate having to push too many buttons during a song - it simply messes with my concentration on delivering the tune too much.

[Tonysounds]

I used to do up to 8 zones in a performance, and anywhere from 1-3 performances in song. That's dropped to 4 zones, and as many performances as a song requires.

 

I use an S90es to control itself, a Motif Rack, FantomXr, Roland JD990, and Muse Receptor. The Receptor I use in multi mode all the time, and sometimes I use 3-4 zones on that alone.

[Nordude]

Depends heavily on the occasion. When playing musical/stage shows, it tends to be heavier on splits and layers.

In my soul & funk cover band, 1 or sometimes 2 patches on my (monotimbral) Nord Electro 3, and on my workstation 1 to 4 (or 5) sounds, usually splitted and/or layered.

[DanS]

I usually use 3 splits or 2 sets of layers on my S70, and either a patch from my Fantom and/or the Poly on top of that.

I don't change patches during songs, but use the S70 to change patches on all the boards between tunes.

A lot of my Master setups get used in multiple songs as well

We have yet to do tunes that require me to change Masters during a song.

[Botch]

My record is seventeen, it was The Cars' "You Might Think". My 'boards are kinda old and limited in their splitting. I got the tones programmed and then spent quite a bit of time learning "the dance" to be able to play each part and change patches on another board (I was using four) without missing anything, it was actually kinda fun.

 

We played that song live I think three times, then dropped it because nobody danced to it.

 

Argh.

[DanL]

I use a 2 board setup, and one is an electro so it's usually 1 sound on that. My S90ES, it depends on the tune, and I normally have one setup for each tune. It might be piano by itself, a piano or EP layered with something like a synth pad or strings, a 2 way split, or something more involved like a 4 way zone with a synth bass, a synth comp type sound, a string sound, and a special effect that's assigned to a single key. I rarely have to change patches during a song. Once in a while I'll switch to a synth lead for a solo then back to an EP or something like that, but that's more the exception than the rule.

 

I'm curious, billwg- you use 9 performances for Carry On? I play that song with one band and use only piano and organ- what requires you to need that many setups for 1 song? Not trying to be negative, I'm really curious as to how you set things up and the need to step thru that many settings.

[Bill W]

I'm curious, billwg- you use 9 performances for Carry On? I play that song with one band and use only piano and organ- what requires you to need that many setups for 1 song? Not trying to be negative, I'm really curious as to how you set things up and the need to step thru that many settings.

 

No problem, DanL! I just looked at the Fantom G project and it's actually only 8 live setups. They're set up like this:

 

1: piano on left, guitar center, organ right (the guitar is in the center because I add the single notes that are played behind the first guitar solo -- the guitar notes are samples of me playing guitar)

2: all piano (when vocals start)

3: piano on left, organ on right

4: all piano

5: all organ (solo)

6: piano on left, organ on right

7: all piano

8: piano on left, organ on right (during final guitar solo)

 

2, 4 and 7 are the same. 3 and 6 are the same. 8 is a variation of 3 & 6 with a larger organ range. Remember, this is a 61 note keyboard so I have to get creative. I'd rather switch patches a few times than carry extra keys, stands, cables, pedals, cases, a mixer, etc.

 

Bill

 

 

 

 

[kanker.]

The most I use in one tune is 2, and that's not common. Sometimes I'll play piano or EP and organ on a tune. Sometimes I'll play bass on my Moog and EP on my 88. That would be about the extent of it...

[Edgar Summers]

I mostly play solo with a fantom s88 and sometimes a korg micro perched on top.

 

Unlike a band situation I use the drum pads a lot!

 

I don't use the sequencer much because I've always thought it sounds too canned, so I usually use setups heavy on piano. this way it is a least MY take on a tune rather than trying to sound like the studio version. It gets rather muddled when you hear all these sequenced parts. To me you give the impression you're not doing much, so I just use the drum pads and play the rest myself.

 

One example is a version of Rod Stewart's "Passion" I do from the 80s. I've tried to update it by using a Hip-hop rhythm, funk bass, electric piano, clavinet, strings on top, and a descending resonant-filter synth thing on the top three keys. This along with a couple of odd sounds I can add as well gives me enough sounds to carry the song as a soloist. The Korg helps add some solo things when I get busy on the fantom.

 

Using the pads on the fantom I can throw in a cymbal crash or simple drum accent just to give some variety. You also have six different variations of the basic beat some of which I've customized. That beats many drummers I've played with.

[Mark Schmieder]

Never more than one -- too much to go wrong at the gig; especially in the dark.

 

I set up multis in advance, and if the keyboard supports it, I go even further and insert the relevant multis into a Master Mode list that is in gig order and may even have additional settings not available in the multi/performance mode.

 

I've worked with keyboardists who don't use splits and are changing patches all through the song, and they mess up at every gig, due to poor lighting, arcane scroll-through referencing systems (vs. direct punch-in of patch ID's), etc.

 

It takes more time up front to arrange your patch needs before the gig, but it saves heartache on stage and reduces stress for everybody in the band.

 

It's really nice when a keyboard supports more than four splits, as often a song will have a part that just comes in briefly but may span across two octaves, so choreographing the split points and which sounds to cover can be an ongoing challenge, but still best done BEFORE the gig. :-)

[kanker.]

The most I use in one tune is 2, and that's not common. Sometimes I'll play piano or EP and organ on a tune. Sometimes I'll play bass on my Moog and EP on my 88. That would be about the extent of it...

I should add that I only play two sounds on separate keyboards...

[MoodyBluesKeys]

Country/gospel/oldies band and blues band - usually same patch (1 or 2 keyboards) through a song.

 

Worship band - often 5 or more changes - usually when using orchestral patches to build as the song continues. Easy on the Kurz - just punch in the numbers, hit Enter at the right time. (Many of the orchestral changes I use are in patch order so just hitting the + sign gets it).

 

 

[David Loving]

I always stick with the same sound in a tune - piano, sometimes rhodes or wurli, on one board; and organ on the other.

[BlackandWhite]

If you include my 2 kbs as 2 patches, I probably average only 3. "Dance Sister Dance" comes to mind as being the busiest: 2 organ sounds, AP, EP, and strings.

 

How some of you use more than a dozen patches during one song is beyond me.

[Moonglow]

I think the music genre largely drives the answer to the OP's question. I play classic rock and lots of 80's retro stuff. So I often have 3-4 zones/splits that are active on my PC3X for any given song, involving patches from the PC3X, Nord Stage 88, and a rack containing a Korg TR-Rack, Motif-ESR, and a D-550.

[Mark Schmieder]

Well, now I'm confused, as I thought the OP was referring to how often you do a patch change during a song, as opposed to how many sounds do you use in a song.

 

I use at least four in most songs, and now that I have a PC3x, I might be able to use more. I do highly orchestrated covers and originals so need lots of sounds in each song. Obviously this is a highly genre-dependent scenario.

[MikeT156]

I use one or two sounds in the same song, most of the time. I use "Song" mode on my ES8, so that usually only leaves me one or two tracks that are free for me to use for live playing. when I use my second KB (the ION) I may have one or two sounds that I can play on that in addition to the one or two sounds on my ES8. Most of the time if I'm playing acoustic piano, Rhodes, or Wurly, I'm keeping a groove going along with the guitar, bass, and drums, so I don't change sounds in mid-song.

 

And Tonysounds, I always thought you were a maniac, after reading your post, now I'm sure of it!

 

 

 

Cheers,

 

 

Mike T.

[Michelle ggurl]

With a 2-board setup (Kurzweil PC2 and NE2), in my former global-Latin-fusion band, I used to try to stick to 3 different sounds: one patch on the NE2 and a split or variable-volume layer on the PC2. But sometimes I'd switch between EP and organ multiple times in a song on the Nord and when that happened I tried to simplify the patch setup on the PC2 to not have to switch. My "complexity" record probably was with the PC2 running 5 patches through 3 zones on one setup, and 3 patches through 2 zones on another later in the tune, plus going to the Electro for EP.

 

It got quite complicated since it was jazz (but with a lot of through-composed parts) and requiring improvisational fluidity. I ended up streamlining within a few gigs, not trying to replicate what I had done on the CD so much, and just developing a "live" sound that had some key orchestrative parts but relied more on bread-and-butter EP and APs.

 

Now I mostly play JUST acoustic piano in a jazz trio, and I have to say that for me this is a breath of fresh air. I'm enjoying the technological simplicity immensely.

[Tonysounds]

And Tonysounds, I always thought you were a maniac, after reading your post, now I'm sure of it!

Cheers,Mike T.

 

Yeah, I am. And you have NO idea what I will do to guitarists! I've just started playing with Guitar Rig on my Receptor, and that has just opened up a whole new can of worms for me to punish them with!

[Tuggy]

I use two boards on stage, PC1SE+ES6 for commercial stuff, PC1SE+NL3 for jazz/fusion. Mostly I use 2 or 3 sounds, but there are some songs that make me use 4 or 5. Again, depends on the context.

[DanS]

Even if I'm just using a Rhodes or Wurli sound, I'll often layer up 2 from the S70xs, and 1 from an expansion card on the Fantom.

Same for clavs. I'm lugging them around, may as well use 'em.

[Bosendorphen]

At most I was switching between 3 sounds on my upper board (piano, synth brass, sax) while maintaining a clav sound on the lower board. That was on an original tune called "Janice." It wasn't hard to switch as I had the sounds on the upper board set up so I could just step through Singles within a Multi patch. But now I've simplified that song and replaced all the switching with a Hammond sound (VB3) and vary it a bit with the drawbars. Then play piano/strings patch on the lower board on the choruses.

 

Usually it's just 2 or 3 different sounds per song, no switching but a lot of bringing in pads underneath piano, EP or guitar sounds and the occasional lead synth.