Stereo rig?

[kanker.]

I can't even begin to tell you how many soundmen on this last tour had planned on 2 DI's for me, and then were visibly relieved when I told them I ran mono. A few of them even commented on it, with much appreciation.

[Tonysounds]

Yep! I just did an Oktoberfest where the sound engineer (actually a real engineer!) was shocked I wasnt going stereo. Well here, Ill give you 2 boxes, and you can go stereo anyway. I had to tell him sorry, my rack is wired in mono, one is all Im using. When he asked why mono, I gave him the same responses that I did on this thread. Afterward, he came up and said you know, it sounded great, I thought it would need stereo to sound big, but you were right, and it was easy to dial in, no phase issues. I smiled, handed him a beer, thanked him, and loaded up the car.

[Dave Ferris]

I think solo stuff in small rooms, which is really my bread and butter, is fine working with stereo.

 

Anyhoo, here seems as good a place to jump in with another attempt at CP5 mono

 

Clonk here

 

Nice Aidan.

 

However, I think the CP-5 in mono on a recording is much more forgiving then live through speakers. Your A/D converter is doing a good job of taking the boxiness/digital harshness out that you or I should say I hear going through the one speaker.

 

Like I said before, for Rock and louder volume scenarios, I'm ok with the mono thing but if it's Jazz or solo piano, especially the way this "CF Grand" sounds on the CP-5, I gots to have my stereo.

 

On the other hand, the Nord Piano sounds excellent in mono--at a softer, Jazz friendly volume on both the APs and EPs. A wonderful thing about the NP.

[David Loving]

A happy soundman stays away from the suck-button.

[Synthoid]

I'm not even an hour from Dogfish... the 60 Minute is my favorite beer. The beauty of living so close to the brewery is that the time from brewery to the store is so short. The case I have sitting in the garage now was bottled 2 weeks ago.

 

Nothing like a fresh dog...

 

[Synthoid]

I need to get BluesKeys outta the house (we're overdue for our Somewhat Irregular Executive Beer-Sampling Consortium Meeting

 

Ever try a Dogfish Head 60 Minute IPA?

 

 

No. But it's on the Beer Menu at The Flying Saucer.

 

Also, if you want something rich and earthy from that list... try one of these:

 

http://www.cervejasdomundo.com/Gallery/data/media/2/mini-DSC00451.JPG

[tucktronix]

Yep! I just did an Oktoberfest where the sound engineer (actually a real engineer!) was shocked I wasnt going stereo. Well here, Ill give you 2 boxes, and you can go stereo anyway. I had to tell him sorry, my rack is wired in mono, one is all Im using. When he asked why mono, I gave him the same responses that I did on this thread. Afterward, he came up and said you know, it sounded great, I thought it would need stereo to sound big, but you were right, and it was easy to dial in, no phase issues. I smiled, handed him a beer, thanked him, and loaded up the car.

 

Hear! hear!

[JeffLearman]

Jeff - do you post a schedule of where you are playing? Keep me in the loop. I need to get BluesKeys outta the house (we're overdue for our Somewhat Irregular Executive Beer-Sampling Consortium Meeting - and it's his turn to pay).

Yeah, we're long overdue!

 

I'm sitting tight lately passing a bunch of gravel after a "extracorporeal shock wave lithotripsy" -- something I hope you never have to learn about. Gimme a couple weeks to recover and let's do something one way or the other, either a local blues jam, or crash one of Jimmy's gigs, or just get together and ogle waitresses.

 

I'm hoping the soul band can start gigging in bars soon, but we just added a new horn player and gotta get our press kit together and booking 8 musicians is like ... well, you know, especially when there's no profit motive.

[Joe Muscara]

I can't even begin to tell you how many soundmen on this last tour had planned on 2 DI's for me, and then were visibly relieved when I told them I ran mono. A few of them even commented on it, with much appreciation.

I'm imagining how the conversation went.

 

Him: [holds up two DIs]

 

You: [holds up one cable]

 

Him: [looks at you quizzically, then holds up two fingers]

 

You: [shakes head, holds up one finger] One.

 

Him: [holds up one finger, says one or one in his language]

 

You: Yes, sí, ya, da, one, uno, un, [etc.]

 

Him: Ah! Good! Bien! [or whatever language it was]

 

[ITGITC]

I'm sitting tight lately passing a bunch of gravel after a "extracorporeal shock wave lithotripsy" --

 

 

Er. OK. I can wait.

 

Good luck, Jeff. By the time you're back to normal (relatively speaking, of course), you'll be ready for that beverage of choice!

 

Stay loose.

[kanker.]

I can't even begin to tell you how many soundmen on this last tour had planned on 2 DI's for me, and then were visibly relieved when I told them I ran mono. A few of them even commented on it, with much appreciation.

I'm imagining how the conversation went.

 

Him: [holds up two DIs]

 

You: [holds up one cable]

 

Him: [looks at you quizzically, then holds up two fingers]

 

You: [shakes head, holds up one finger] One.

 

Him: [holds up one finger, says one or one in his language]

 

You: Yes, sí, ya, da, one, uno, un, [etc.]

 

Him: Ah! Good! Bien! [or whatever language it was]

 

Heh - actually, pretty much all of them speak better English than most American guitarists....

[mate stubb]

I was in southern Germany for two weeks and met exactly 2 people who did not speak more than adequate English.

 

Embarrassing and humbling for my lack of foreign language skills.

[kanker.]

I was in southern Germany for two weeks and met exactly 2 people who did not speak more than adequate English.

 

Embarrassing and humbling for my lack of foreign language skills.

Yep. Exactly how I felt.

[Mark Schmieder]

I got a kick out of the misspelling, as it is almost a Freudian slip, given what a Bode System is. :-) In particular, you might have phase issues. :-)

 

For the uninitiated, here are some links that describe Bode Plots:

 

http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Control_Systems/Bode_Plots

 

http://www.nd.edu/~hpcc/solaris8_usr_local/src/matlab6.5/help/toolbox/ident/bode.html

 

http://wikis.controltheorypro.com/index.php?title=Bode_Plot

 

http://www.mathworks.com/help/toolbox/control/getstart/f2-1043814.html

 

As for running a live rig in stereo, it's always nice to see fresh topics pop up now and then... especially when they haven't been discussed in the last two or three days... :-)

[Tomkeen]

I was in southern Germany for two weeks and met exactly 2 people who did not speak more than adequate English.

 

Embarrassing and humbling for my lack of foreign language skills.

 

Oh well. English is a lot easier than German. I'm half German, half Dutch (though I consider myself Dutch) and probably speak better English than German. Pretty weird, with a German father, having been speaking German all my life, and even working in a store where 90% of the customers ARE German.

[ITGITC]

Heh - actually, pretty much all of them speak better English than most American guitarists....

 

YOU SIR... continue to crack me up!

[dazzjazz]

Wow that's a lot of responses while I slept.

 

To clear things up, I want to run stereo for selfish reasons. I do mostly small jazz gigs and don't usually run into a PA.

Basically I want a more inspiring sound. I currently have a Mackie SRM350 which sounds pretty good and would consider getting another as they're not too heavy.

 

I looked at the bose systems and the specs are confusing. I though they were stereo as they have a stereo input for iPods etc, but perhaps these are summed to mono - I can't tell.

 

Darren

[kanker.]

stereo...selfish

Yeah, I'd say that about sums it up.

[HAMEGZ]

I was in southern Germany for two weeks and met exactly 2 people who did not speak more than adequate English.

 

Embarrassing and humbling for my lack of foreign language skills.

 

When I was there 12 year ago I lived and worked around American Military bases. Even with that, when I was out on the economy I attempted German first as a sign of respect.

 

Usually the locals would let me fumble around for a while and then speak in English ,but respecting that I TRIED in the native language.

Also after a bit ,Sprechen Sie Englisch? would help unless you were in the Hunde zurück, then baby your up the creek.

[wineandkeyz]

stereo...selfish

Yeah, I'd say that about sums it up.

 

Utter bullshit. You ought to be ashamed of yourself, Kanker, unless you only have one working ear. Do you listen to a mono system at home? Maybe you have a stereo-to-mono adapter for your headphones? You're projecting what works for you onto the OP, who doesn't even run his system through the FOH.

 

If you and Tony are THAT self-conscious about running mono, perhaps you need to do a little self-evaluation. But to call the OP "selfish" is a bit much, don't you think?

[ewall08530]

dazzjazz,

Check out the Motion Sound KP500S. For years I used the older KP200S and was very happy with the stereo image. It's one cabinet with two seperate speakers angled slightly away from center. I just recently sold it on Ebay because when I bought a QSC K10 for a personal monitor I found myself using it more and loving it.

 

The KP500S is a bit lighter and louder than the 200.

 

ewall.biz

[kanker.]

stereo...selfish

Yeah, I'd say that about sums it up.

 

Utter bullshit. You ought to be ashamed of yourself, Kanker, unless you only have one working ear. Do you listen to a mono system at home? Maybe you have a stereo-to-mono adapter for your headphones? You're projecting what works for you onto the OP, who doesn't even run his system through the FOH.

 

If you and Tony are THAT self-conscious about running mono, perhaps you need to do a little self-evaluation. But to call the OP "selfish" is a bit much, don't you think?

[Rocket Man 2]

As the mono vs. stereo discussion continues, is anyone running in-ear monitors doing this, and if so, how are you running the mixes? Together with on-stage monitors?

[Tonysounds]

If you and Tony are THAT self-conscious about running mono, perhaps you need to do a little self-evaluation.

 

WTF is YOUR problem, and what do you mean by that?

 

Are you a stereo Nazi? Does using stereo mean you are compensating for somethng? I eagerly await your reply.

http://www.macosxaudio.com/forums/download/file.php?avatar=4674_1263587685.gif

 

 

[allan_evett]

stereo...selfish

Yeah, I'd say that about sums it up.

 

Utter bullshit. You ought to be ashamed of yourself, Kanker, unless you only have one working ear. Do you listen to a mono system at home? Maybe you have a stereo-to-mono adapter for your headphones? You're projecting what works for you onto the OP, who doesn't even run his system through the FOH.

 

If you and Tony are THAT self-conscious about running mono, perhaps you need to do a little self-evaluation. But to call the OP "selfish" is a bit much, don't you think?

 

 

I don't believe it was an attempt to belittle the OP, just simply affirming an observation the OP had already made. If I happen to be playing a gig for which my stage amplification is the only sound source, and I run my rig in stereo, then there are sonic issues to consider - with regard to the audience. Running keys in stereo - especially a digital piano tone - is a dicey proposition when the signal is routed to a PA. No need to elaborate further - as the gory details have already been provided previously on this forum. If I think of how that might sound with my rig being the PA, two thoughts come immediately to mind: 1) To me, onstage, it would likely sound fuller/richer. 2) To the audience it would likely sound a bit 'off'; i.e. - think of how a piano presents sonically, in a room, to the listening ear; that's right, it's not in stereo.... So # 1 satisfies me, and # 2 aurally messes with my audience; original observation affirmed.

 

I have two working ears; they hear fine in mono without an adapter....

[Tonysounds]

Oh...there you go, worrying about what the AUDIENCE hears. Guess that makes you "self conscious" too. Oh wait, by it's very nature it's taking others into account.

 

Right on.

[allan_evett]

If you and Tony are THAT self-conscious about running mono, perhaps you need to do a little self-evaluation.

 

WTF is YOUR problem, and what do you mean by that?

 

Are you a stereo Nazi? Does using stereo mean you are compensating for somethng? I eagerly await your reply.

http://www.macosxaudio.com/forums/download/file.php?avatar=4674_1263587685.gif

 

 

LMAO....

[Aidan]

I think the CP-5 in mono on a recording is much more forgiving then live through speakers. Your A/D converter is doing a good job of taking the boxiness/digital harshness out that you or I should say I hear going through the one speaker.

 

Yeah, Dave, so far that's been my experience live with the CP-5 too. Which is why I'm also keeping the RD700GX for the foreseeable future. It's also a much better controller, too.

[dazzjazz]

Maybe I will check out the Motion Sound then.

 

As for the negativity here - play nice boys!!!

[AnotherScott]

think of how a piano presents sonically, in a room, to the listening ear; that's right, it's not in stereo....

I'm not sure it's quite that simple. Forgetting about the perspective of the player (who does hear strings to his left and right), you're correct that, from the audience's perspective, the entire piano sound is coming "mono" from the area in front, with nothing "different" about left vs. right apart from room reflections. But the soundboard is so large compared to a speaker (or the distance between your ears), I'm not sure that doesn't have a spatial effect (at least before you get too far back).

 

At any rate, for whatever reason, many people do find that stereo piano patches often sound more authentic (or at least more pleasing?) than mono ones. I wonder if stereo samples are necessarily taken from the player's perspectives (one mic nearer the bass strings, the other nearer the high notes), or if some stereo samples may be taken from the audience perspective (i.e. lid up, left mic near the keyboard side, right mic near the opposite side).

 

As for the debate as a whole, as I recently said in another thread, there seem to be two groups of keyboard players... ones who say, essentially, "I don't need to have the world's best sound on stage, let's focus on getting the best possible sound out front, and as long as I can hear myself, I'm not too worried about the on-stage sound" vs. "as long as the sound out front is decent, I want to focus on a no-compromise great sound on stage for my own playing pleasure and inspiration." I don't think there's a right-wrong answer there, but I think that split helps explain the different opinions you get on these things. In the case like the OP's where the stage sound and the audience sound are one and the same, however, the difference shouldn't really matter... yet this thread shows that, even then, the mono brigade can be vociferous! Personally, I run mono anyway. I'm just not as dogmatic about it.