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Apple Slams Microsoft Proposal


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<< [b]Apple Slams Microsoft Proposal[/b] BALTIMORE (AP) - Apple Computer Inc. on Tuesday criticized Microsoft Corp.'s plan to settle its consumer class-action lawsuits by donating refurbished computers, hardware and other resources to the nation's poorest schools. "We're baffled that a settlement imposed against Microsoft for breaking the law should allow, even encourage, them to unfairly make inroads into education - one of the few markets left where they don't have monopoly power," Apple chief executive Steve Jobs said in a statement. Under the proposal made public last week, Microsoft and some plaintiffs agreed the company would provide more than $1 billion worth of Microsoft software, refurbished personal computers and other resources to more than 12,500 of the nation's poorest schools. Critics contend the proposal will only serve to enhance Microsoft's competitive advantage in schools while doing little to meet the poorest schools' extensive needs. >> [url=http://news.excite.com/news/ap/011127/13/microsoft]More...[/url]

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[quote]I think both companies should donate refurbished machines to deprived schools lawsuit or none.[/quote] Yep but to be honest I don't think Computers have any business being in Schools at all, kids should be reading books, any monkey can learn to use a computer. Sorry to stray off topic but this is a big issue for me...I learned my first word processing program in a couple of hours...these days (with programs getting more user-friendly) it would have taken me, maybe, half an hour. The push to get computers in public schools has been totally misguided by computer illiterate dolts (average parent today?)...in 5-10 years most of these lame computer skills being taught today will be obsolete (maybe they already are), they won't help anyone get a job later. Some of the new classes being sold to our children are so ludicrous...like taking 6 weeks to teach how to use simple programs like Microsoft Word. It takes valuable learning time away from these kids, the majority of which graduate from high school with a 3rd grade reading level.
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Mr. LeBlanc, I agree totally. Teach a man to read and he can operate any machine, cause he won't be afraid of the manual! Teach math, and computer science, instead of the basics neccessary to enter info into a PC while sitting at a desk bugging somebody with a telemarketing call. The products of some of our schools can be seen on Jay Leno's "Jay Walking". It's embarrassing to see full grown adults identify the Eiffel Tower as the Washington Monument and other such feats of stupidity. Bill Gates should cough up the cash, instead of unloading his unwanted PC's on unsuspecting, defenseless school children. Sly :cool:
Whasineva ehaiz, ehissgot ta be Funky!
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Steve, You're right You're right You're right but.... I know several grade school teachers who really like some of the software they use as it helps promote problem solving skills individually in a way that can not be done properly even in small groups. Especially in "beat the clock" sort of drills. I admire and appreciate the way you stand behind your guns when necessary (even stretching the thread a bit at times) but so should everyone. When something so important as education comes up - there should be no rules in topic selection. Keep on the good stuff. IMHO, both new Macs and new PCs should be "given" to all levels of education in America - give the refurbished stuff to other third world countries - they need to learn how we do it so well. The word here is GIVE - both Gates and Jobs should be competing against each other in philanthropy till no student who wants to use a computer to learn lacks the opportunity. They have the personal bucks - don'cha know??? I'm not as good a fortune teller as Ms. Cleo, but I'm not so sure how hotly we should decry what skills are going to be needed and by whom in the future. If kids learn good self-esteem habits and quality decision making abililities while fumbling around with "old hat" computers - then I say it is a good thing... good - it could be great great - it could earth-changing dare one say it... RULE THE WORLD!!!!! Gates SAYS he wants to give away all of his money (save $10 million for each of his kids) by the time he dies. I SAY I want all people to learn to live together in peace and prosperity. Horses for courses. [ 11-27-2001: Message edited by: radlane ]
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Ha, good stuff Rad...I have a more positive outlook in life than it seems, I like the idea of believing Bill Gates is a good guy and will do great things. There is always hope for tomorrow, kids need to spend more time reading now. There are so many problems with our public education system, there are a lot of good books on the subject. ;) [quote]If kids learn good self-esteem habits and quality decision making abililities while fumbling around with "old hat" computers - then I say it is a good thing...[/quote] I agree. I am not saying kids shouldn't learn to use computers, I just think it is a recreational activity first, learning tool second. Also any really great groundbreaking stuff is likely to be [b]discovered[/b] by a smart kid having fun not taught to him by a teacher following a lesson plan. Computers are not difficult...it's coming up with creative ways to use them that can be difficult, especially for uncreative people. I could go on but I need to get back to work ;)
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man could that not be more wrong. computer skills are ESSENTIAL for future development and the younger they get started, the better. and knowing computers has VERY LITTLE to do with such simple programs like Word. give me a break. it took me 2 seconds to learn it... and it was back in the days when you had some POS ASCII interface and no freakin mouse. teach kids programming in elementary school, not word processors. i started out on BASIC and then moved on to other languages before i hit junior high.

alphajerk

FATcompilation

"if god is truly just, i tremble for the fate of my country" -thomas jefferson

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First off, I'm not wrong. ;) [quote]teach kids programming in elementary school, not word processors. i started out on BASIC and then moved on to other languages before i hit junior high.[/quote] Well that's different...I agree completely...but damn that won't work because kids will know before their 13 that they should never have been using anything but Linux over these overbloated operating systems they've been using. ;) Learning computer programming languages is great and something kids should be taught...unfortunately that's not what's happening. BTW Alpha, you should check your reading skills...make sure you actually disagree with something that's been said before saying you disagree :D [ 11-27-2001: Message edited by: Steve LeBlanc ]
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Most schools that I've seen have Apple computers in them, (which always baffled me?? schools are usually so 'mainstream'), you gotta commend ol' Bill for a very shrewed move. -Steve, your queen's dead, you gotta move your king, wait, I think your in checkmate. doh!
In two days, it won't matter.
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The thing is that Microsoft already has a monopoly of the worlds computer users. Having over 90% of the computers in the world running Windows OS is as close to a monopoly as you need to get I think. What's puzzling me is why schools insist on using Apple systems in spite of the fact that kids will grow up and then be forced to become familiar with Windows in the business world. As far as I know one thing which has contributed to this is the educational discount which Apple has always made available to schools. No one has accused Apple of using unfair business practices for doing this only because they are in no danger of acquiring a monoploy I guess.

Mac Bowne

G-Clef Acoustics Ltd.

Osaka, Japan

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Well I have to step in and say, Computers in school do have some important points. I know that at a local high school in my area, infact in many of the high schools the students are being taught a BCIS class where they actually prepare a portfolio and get ready to move into the business world (although at one of the schools that business is the arts. [url=http://www.hspva.org)]www.hspva.org)[/url] and they are also taught web mastering classes where they learn the history of computers and html programming language, so they can use them if they ever build their own businesses. Some schools offer programming courses and other things. If word processor programs are so easy to learn then why is it that soo many older adults have trouble grasping how to run their computers. It is true that some catch on easily, but not all, and it has nothing to do with how smart they are. I aggree with much that has been said but also have to say computers in schools are a benefit. I know at the school I am at that I use computers day in day out for the major i have at the school (Technical Theatre, i would also like to say no its not a college im at, you can have majors and not be in universities). It is important to understand computers more than just knowing how to opperate word, because a million to one, most people dont know a quarter of what it can do. (I though i was a MS Office wiz, and after being in a BCIS course I realize there are things in word that I had NO CLUE you could do so easily, while at the same time Im learning how to write business proposals and desktop publishing and such). **Faust65**
**Faust65**
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<> Apple has always had a strong foothold in the education sector since way back when. They've lost a lot of ground in recent years but still maintain a respectable market share. There are several reasons for this... Number one, they've always had educational discounts on their hardware, though they're not as deep now as they use to be. Number two, most schools don't have the money to hire armies of MCSE's to maintain their computers. Macs tend to run well out of the box for a long time without any kind of maintenance. Number three, Apple includes a lot of free software with the computers it sells to education: Appleworks, iMovie, Network Assistant (very cool program), and At Ease/Macintosh Manager (for desktop security). And they don't charge you for client access licenses--if you buy one of their servers you get all the CAL's you need (Microsoft client licensing can be very expensive). Number four, far fewer computer viruses to contend with (a *big* plus there). Plus, Apple has always had great cross-platform support: e.g. read/write to PC format disks, so working at home on a PC is usually not a problem. And really when you look at the MacOS versus Windows these days, the basic concepts of getting around the computer are not that different.
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[quote]Originally posted by gtrmac@hotmail.com: [b]What's puzzling me is why schools insist on using Apple systems in spite of the fact that kids will grow up and then be forced to become familiar with Windows in the business world.[/b][/quote] It's because Apple/Macs are better computers. And it's been proven that business types aren't the most intelligent species on the planet. Imagine if the FAA went and bought some G4's, you'd have state of the art air traffic control. Sly :cool:
Whasineva ehaiz, ehissgot ta be Funky!
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Lot of good points made here. While I agree that books need to be a priority, I think that computers need to be in schools, and it should be ALL platforms...let the child gravitate toward the one that suits his/her congitive and comprehensive abilities. Some of you may have readily grasped programming and such at an early age, but simpletons like myself had trouble understanding how good BASIC was if you had to go through all that work just to get a box to do something. (I tried learning BASIC--on the Trash-80's--and just couldn't get the hang of it.) When Apple finally came around, I was able to say 'NOW I can get a handle on this computer thing'. Funny thing is, I've become more technially skilled via the Apple door than I would have otherwise; I better understand how a PC works through my trials and tribulations with another platform. Don't ask me how...just is. And that's part of my point: ALL computer platform manufacturers should be required to contribute equally to schools, to accomodate different paths to learning. And books should be first...just as chalk, watercolor, oil, acrylic, pencil, paper, cameras, developers, enlargers, etc., should be first before Photoshop, Illustrator, Quark, Freehand, etc. Otherwise, we run the risk of developing a species that cannot communicate effectively through any other means than microprocessor. Mac, Linux, or PC shouldn't be the issue. It ought to be ALL. (Without a great deal of time contemplating the implications,) I dare say this is one time a government mandate would be welcome, setting standards for donation and outfitting schools with a balance of ALL systems. Yes, Jobs and Gates are manic shitheads. So were playground bullies, who ultimately had to answer to the Principal.
I've upped my standards; now, up yours.
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[quote]Originally posted by Groovepusher Sly Tone: [b]Imagine if the FAA went and bought some G4's, you'd have state of the art air traffic control.[/b][/quote] They day they start using desktop OS's for air traffic control is the day I'll stop flying :D . None of the current Mac or Windows OS's are good enough for this task, IMHO.
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[quote]Originally posted by Dylan Walters: [b] They day they start using desktop OS's for air traffic control is the day I'll stop flying :D . None of the current Mac or Windows OS's are good enough for this task, IMHO.[/b][/quote] I've heard some older ATC systems were installed in the '60's! -You may be lucky if you're flying with more than 512k of ram and a proc. speed of 5 mhz, on the ground. a comforting thought. :eek:
In two days, it won't matter.
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[quote]Originally posted by Groovepusher Sly Tone: [b] It's because Apple/Macs are better computers. And it's been proven that business types aren't the most intelligent species on the planet. Imagine if the FAA went and bought some G4's, you'd have state of the art air traffic control. Sly :cool: [/b][/quote] Do we really need to get the Mac vs PC debate going again? If apple really want's to get ahead, then they should price their computers more competitively. And I'm not talking about those POS Imacs. Im talking G4's and up.

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Alright, alright, wishful thinking on my part. I would hate to be in the air and see that bomb come up on the LCD screen, in the middle of the movie no less!!! But I can dream can't I? offramp, Good points. Dylan, I wasn't thinking OS as much as hardware. Probably have to use Linux Hippie, I think we could use just a little more juice? Henchman, Not me! I ain't startin' no debates or nothin'! That was that other Sly and I don't know anything about him! :p Sly :cool:
Whasineva ehaiz, ehissgot ta be Funky!
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