Slightly OT: Notation question

[Cygnus64]

I'm writing a large orchestral score that has a piano part. The pianist will be improving to an extent. I'm starting him out on each section with two written measures, which I want him to repeat throughout. How do I mark that in the score? I'm familiar with the repeat symbol that looks like an x with two dots, but how do I put it in? I'm using Sibelius 5. Danke Schon.

[David Loving]

./. ? dots in the middle raised up some.

[Cygnus64]

./. ? dots in the middle raised up some.

When I do that, it doesn't eliminate the rests that are automatically there.

 

Is one slash a measure, and a slash with 2 dots two measures? For some reason I can't see it in my head.

[DanS]

I'm writing a large orchestral score that has a piano part. The pianist will be improving to an extent.

 

I certainly hope so.

[Morizzle]

Hey Cygnus, I upgraded to Sib 6 a year ago. There, you can do it by selecting a different rider of the num-pad where you usually choose different note lenghts. In one rider, there are one and two bar-measure repeats.

I hope its the same in Sib 5. If not, try the following: clear the rests by selecting them and hiding them (delete or ctrl+h) and put in the ./. symbol from the sign menu (standard shortcut z). That should work.

The pdf manual of Sibelius is exellent IMHO. Probably just check in the index under repeat or sumtin'.

[Cygnus64]

Here's what I'm talkin about, the second line in figure one:

this thing

 

How the heck do I do that? I see the symbol under symbols. I can erase the rests in a measure. Do I put the sign in the middle of two measure on the bar line? I can't erase a bar line.

 

[Cygnus64]

Hey Cygnus, I upgraded to Sib 6 a year ago. There, you can do it by selecting a different rider of the num-pad where you usually choose different note lenghts. In one rider, there are one and two bar-measure repeats.

I hope its the same in Sib 5. If not, try the following: clear the rests by selecting them and hiding them (delete or ctrl+h) and put in the ./. symbol from the sign menu (standard shortcut z). That should work.

The pdf manual of Sibelius is exellent IMHO. Probably just check in the index under repeat or sumtin'.

Thanks Mo, but how does one erase a bar line in a score, with keeping the others intact?

[Morizzle]

You don't erase, you create an invisible one. create->barline->invisible.

[Cygnus64]

You don't erase, you create an invisible one. create->barline->invisible.

How does one create an invisible barline for only one instrument in the score? When I select a barline it's for all instruments. Is there a wayto do it for just the piano part?

[Morizzle]

Of course I don't know your specific use of the repeat, but here are two ways I could imagine writing and reading it:

 

http://www.divshare.com/download/12891014-c40

[Morizzle]

You don't erase, you create an invisible one. create->barline->invisible.

How does one create an invisible barline for only one instrument in the score? When I select a barline it's for all instruments. Is there a wayto do it for just the piano part?

 

It's in the manual under invisible barlines... mine's in German so I'd have to translate a whole bunch here...

[Cygnus64]

You don't erase, you create an invisible one. create->barline->invisible.

How does one create an invisible barline for only one instrument in the score? When I select a barline it's for all instruments. Is there a wayto do it for just the piano part?

 

It's in the manual under invisible barlines... mine's in German so I'd have to translate a whole bunch here...

OK, I found that passage. I'm going to open another project and practice so I don't completely destroy this score.

[Cygnus64]

Of course I don't know your specific use of the repeat, but here are two ways I could imagine writing and reading it:

 

http://www.divshare.com/download/12891014-c40

 

The first one is exactly what I'm trying to do. I just gotta figure out how in the context of other instruments. It's really confusing to me in the manual. It says "create>other>change instruments" and I'm totall clueless. Hold me.

[linwood]

Second to last page on the keypad.

[Cygnus64]

Second to last page on the keypad.

What do you press? All I see are fermatas and articulations.

[linwood]

I'm using 6, so I'm not sure if our keypads are the same.....

http://www.bellmusicproductions.com/clientdownloads/repeat.jpg

 

[Cygnus64]

Oh man, I don't have that page. Maybe I should just write a different song.

[DaveMcM]

I'm writing a large orchestral score that has a piano part. The pianist will be improving to an extent.

 

I certainly hope so.

[Cygnus64]

Looks like this feature is only available in version 6, according to their website. It even plays back the repeat. Drats.

[linwood]

See if you can paste it in

 

http://www.bellmusicproductions.com/clientdownloads/sib5.zip

[Mike Davis]

Do you want the pianist to play a literal repeat of the first two bars, or to improvise (or improve ) with the first two bars as a guideline? If it's the latter, you could write rhythm slashes with a text note saying, "continue simile . . ."

 

To make slashes, enter a quarter note on the middle line of the staff, click on it and hit Shift opt 3 for slashes with no stems, Shift opt 4 if you want stems.

 

After that, hit R (for repeat) and fill up the bar. Then just paste as many bars as you need.

[Cygnus64]

Do you want the pianist to play a literal repeat of the first two bars, or to improvise (or improve

I don't think the pianist can even read music. What I'm trying to do is make a pristine score for the conductor. This piece is for full symphony, combo ( drums bass piano organ) and full choir, so it's a pretty dense score as it is. If I write out the piano part it makes the score too big.

 

The show is Gospel meets Symphony, so we're on different turfs as far as how we read and learn music. The choir and combo learn mainly by rote or by ear, while the symphony reads notation. Some combo members can read, some can't, and their personnel differs from year to year. I won't know who is playing keyboards until after I turn in the score and parts, so I need to cover all bases and make sure I have a part that's readable to a certain degree.

 

Linwood: thanks for posting that! Sib 5 has the symbol, it just doesn't function properly. I still have to erase all rests in a measure, and the only way I can figure out to use it is to put it on a barline in the score.

[Cygnus64]

testing:

clonk

 

OK, clonk the above and you'll see what I did with the repeat symbol in the keyboard part. Is this readable?

 

Correction- I should have used the 2 line symbol instead of the one line.

[Bobadohshe]

I don't think the pianist can even read music. What I'm trying to do is make a pristine score for the conductor. This piece is for full symphony, combo ( drums bass piano organ) and full choir, so it's a pretty dense score as it is. If I write out the piano part it makes the score too big.

 

Then just use slashes and say 'continue simile'. Conductor will know what's up.

[Cygnus64]

I don't think the pianist can even read music. What I'm trying to do is make a pristine score for the conductor. This piece is for full symphony, combo ( drums bass piano organ) and full choir, so it's a pretty dense score as it is. If I write out the piano part it makes the score too big.

 

Then just use slashes and say 'continue simile'. Conductor will know what's up.

 

Thanks. This is what I'm gonna do. I'll make a separate part for piano, and for the score I'll just put slashes and the first two measures of each new pattern. Thanks to all for all the help in this thread.

[mcgoo]

Whenever I've used those markings (under symbols), by default they show up on top of the bar line before the measure I want to put them in. If I delete the whole note rest in that measure, it will be hidden. Then I have to drag the symbol where I want it.... and then if I re-size the page I have to move it again.

 

I'm sure there's a better way, but I haven't figured it out yet!

[Cygnus64]

Whenever I've used those markings (under symbols), by default they show up on top of the bar line before the measure I want to put them in. If I delete the whole note rest in that measure, it will be hidden. Then I have to drag the symbol where I want it.... and then if I re-size the page I have to move it again.

 

I'm sure there's a better way, but I haven't figured it out yet!

 

In other words, they have the symbol but haven't assigned a function to it. I've noticed this with other symbols in Sibelius as well. Supposedly the repeat symbol works in ver. 6, including playback. I'll probably bite the bullet and upgrade soon, I was hoping to wait for ver 7 but I have a lot of arranging work lined up and that would be a good feature to have.

[Cygnus64]

One side effect of not knowing how to do something: you discover other tricks by accident. This is one amazing program overall, I thought I had it "mastered" and it turns out that there's a ton of stuff I don't know yet.

[Dave E]

I just read through this thread thinking: Sheesh! Sibelius people think Finale is a pain?

[Cygnus64]

I just read through this thread thinking: Sheesh! Sibelius people think Finale is a pain?

Well, it's probably better for repeat symbols.

 

I think they are probably about the same learning curve if you want to do fancy-pants stuff. I started on Finale and spent a few years with it, then switched to Encore. Encore was really easy to learn but very basic. I think I'm sticking with Sibelius.