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Roland V-Piano


dazzjazz

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Hi,

 

Any one using one of these expensive beasts?

I need to sell my grand unfortunately and need a good replacement.

 

I live the CP5 but the action is not heavy enough to maintain my chops.

Any ideas? Wish I could afford the Yamaha Avant-grand.

 

Darren

www.dazzjazz.com

PhD in Jazz Organ Improvisation.

BMus (Hons) Jazz Piano.

1961 A100.Leslie 45 & 122. MAG P-2 Organ. Kawai K300J. Yamaha CP4. Moog Matriarch. KIWI-8P.

 

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I think the general consensus might be summarised in four words: Quite nice, too pricey. You might be as well waiting for the RD700NX, which has a similar quality keyboard in a smaller and less expensive package, or even an RD700GX(F) with the Supernatural expansion board would do you.

 

Not wishing to derail the thread too much, but what's other people's opinions on the role and importance of keybed weight in maintaining chops? I think we do tend to forget how light some acoustic actions are, while Horowitz played on lightly set up actions most of his career with no apparent effect on his abilities.

 

Obviously, there needs to be a certain weight in the keyboard otherwise one might tend to hold the hand in tension to play cleanly, but could it be that keyboard-sound connection is actually more important? In which case, one could argue, the CP5 might be an excellent choice.

Studio: Yamaha P515 | Yamaha Tyros 5 | Yamaha HX1 | Moog Sub 37

Road: Yamaha YC88 | Nord Electro 5D

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You raise some interesting points.

yes the V-Piano is too expensive - and is without Rhodes sounds etc.

As far as keybed weight goes, I've been spooked twice recently by pianos with VERY heavy actions - it was really hard work to play those things! Most acoustic pianos on gigs are in bad condition tuning and regulation wise...

 

I currently have a Yamaha G1 which has been well looked after by a good tech - it acutally sounds pretty good for such a small piano. Will be sorry to see it go but my studio setup needs to be more flexible.

 

I think the keyboard sound connection is important too

www.dazzjazz.com

PhD in Jazz Organ Improvisation.

BMus (Hons) Jazz Piano.

1961 A100.Leslie 45 & 122. MAG P-2 Organ. Kawai K300J. Yamaha CP4. Moog Matriarch. KIWI-8P.

 

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Sorry about having to sell your grand.

 

One person on here has played the 700NX and said the connection was excellent, better than the 700GX. I've heard some say the connection on the V-Piano was the best they tried until they played the Yamaha CP.

 

Have you considered any "home" model pianos? I know that some of the Roland models are pretty much the same action (PHA III, Ivory Feel, escapement, etc.) as their stage pianos. If you're not going to be moving it out of the house some of those might be worth considering.

 

Good luck finding an acceptable substitute for your grand.

"I'm so crazy, I don't know this is impossible! Hoo hoo!" - Daffy Duck

 

"The good news is that once you start piano you never have to worry about getting laid again. More time to practice!" - MOI

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Additional options:

 

Kawai MP10 ("RM3 wooden-key action Ivory Touch keybed with let-off"; priced to compete with the 700NX and CP5)

Yamaha CP50 (action similar to your CP33; cheaper than the aforementioned)

Casio Privia PX-830 (nice action, but maybe too "home model")

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When I owned a Kawai MP9000, I found it amazingly good for maintaing piano chops. Which is to say, I could go between it and a real piano and not feel I'd lost anything. In fact, I felt like the Kawai improved my piano technique. Whether you like the sound of the Kawai is of course a different issue.

Gigging: Crumar Mojo 61, Hammond SKPro

Home: Vintage Vibe 64

 

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I just got back from the music store and tried the Roland V-Piano (again) and their HP307, plus i check out the Yamaha CP1.

 

the HP307 was actually really nice, with a good hand to sound connection. the action was heavier than the Yamaha and not too different to the V-piano.

 

I still like the V-piano, but it's out of my price range - it's $10,000 here in Sydney. Plus it only does acoustic.

 

Gotta say, after being a long-time Yamaha fan, that I'm really disappointed with the action on the CP1. i was expecting it to be Rolls Royce, given their long experience making great pianos in general.

 

So, I'm going to wait until the RD-700NX hits these shores. Maybe that will be the ticket.

 

Darren

www.dazzjazz.com

PhD in Jazz Organ Improvisation.

BMus (Hons) Jazz Piano.

1961 A100.Leslie 45 & 122. MAG P-2 Organ. Kawai K300J. Yamaha CP4. Moog Matriarch. KIWI-8P.

 

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..... So, I'm going to wait until the RD-700NX hits these shores. Maybe that will be the ticket.

 

Darren

 

That sounds like a good idea. Having spent some time playing an RD-700GXF, I'm rather impressed. I suspect that the NX will be a step up from that.

'Someday, we'll look back on these days and laugh; likely a maniacal laugh from our padded cells, but a laugh nonetheless' - Mr. Boffo.

 

We need a barfing cat emoticon!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Casio Privia PX-830 (nice action, but maybe too "home model")

I could be wrong, but I thought the PX-830 was the same action as the PX-3, no? Which is also the same action as the PX-330 and PX-130 except that those don't have the matte finish to the keys.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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Exact same keys on the PX-3. AnotherScott, you are correct.

I have the PX-330 and have played both the PX-830 and PX-3 side by side in the store. The only difference on the PX-130 & PX-330 is smooth, polished keys. I really wish I had known about the PX-3 coming when I bought my PX-330 earlier this April. But I guess there is always something better around the corner! I really like my PX-330 anyway.

Boards: Kurzweil SP-6, Roland FA-08, VR-09, DeepMind 12

Modules: Korg Radias, Roland D-05, Bk7-m & Sonic Cell

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Darren, what didn't you like about the CP1's action? Was it down to the weight/lack of grading? What I do love about the CP series is the responsiveness of the keybed - I can play softer on my CP5 than any other DP I've ever encountered, including my RD700GX.

 

Talking of dynamics...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/d/d2/Dynamics_%28music%29_cartoon_-_Punch_Magazine_-_Project_Gutenberg_eText_17397.png/800px-Dynamics_%28music%29_cartoon_-_Punch_Magazine_-_Project_Gutenberg_eText_17397.png

 

Teacher: "And what does mean?"

Pupil (after mature deliberation): "Fump-Fump."

 

 

Studio: Yamaha P515 | Yamaha Tyros 5 | Yamaha HX1 | Moog Sub 37

Road: Yamaha YC88 | Nord Electro 5D

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I thought the CP action was very middle of the road - suitable for playing a lot of different sounds. It responds well to the CPs nice Rhodes models.

 

I wish it took more effort to play. Once I felt the escapement on the Rolands I thought "wow, that's what I've been missing".

 

Wish it was like that on the Yamahas - like I said, I've been a big fan for years and I'm disappointed! Boo hoo....

www.dazzjazz.com

PhD in Jazz Organ Improvisation.

BMus (Hons) Jazz Piano.

1961 A100.Leslie 45 & 122. MAG P-2 Organ. Kawai K300J. Yamaha CP4. Moog Matriarch. KIWI-8P.

 

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I still like the V-piano, but it's out of my price range - it's $10,000 here in Sydney. Plus it only does acoustic.

 

So, I'm going to wait until the RD-700NX hits these shores. Maybe that will be the ticket.

 

The RD700NX features the exact same action as the V-Piano, according to the Roland Canada rep... and I agree, having played both of them within seconds of one another.

 

If you like the V, you'll like the NX. I think it would be worth the wait for you to check it out.

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I wish it took more effort to play. Once I felt the escapement on the Rolands I thought "wow, that's what I've been missing".

 

I know what you mean. When I played my RD700GX in the shop, I knew it was an instrument I HAD to have because it felt so superior to any DP I'd come across before. As I said at the time, the credit card literally flew out of my wallet by itself.

 

Despite the ultra-responsiveness of the CP5, I still find myself coming back to the RD, even without the SN upgrade, because of that action. It just feels more like an acoustic.

 

I continue to find the Yamaha's samples rather cold and sterile and, more tellingly, muddy in the bottom end. When I play contrapuntally in my left hand on the RD, every note is well defined. The Yamaha just doesn't have the same clarity. The RD's mono pianos are very good, the CP's non-existent.

 

The RD is also far superior as general "bottom 88" and MIDI controller. Splits and layers are far more intuitive to set up and it has patch remain, albeit with "bumps" from different FX settings.

 

When you turn off a layer on the Roland, it continues sounding while sustained. Turning off a layer on the CP stops the sound immediately, as does switching patches. This is also a PITA, I discovered, if you're using the external input, as it momentarily shuts that off too as you change patch.

 

The Yamaha's external control capabilities are severely limited in comparison with the Roland. My fear with the RD700NX (judging only from the pictures of the control panel, no manual available so far) is that it may also have "dumbed down" in this area, too. The GX has an "Internal/External" switch to toggle the four zone sliders and buttons, which the NX lacks.

 

On the Yamaha's side is that ultra-controllable dynamic range, the convenience of the mic input (although with caveat as above), backing rhythms generally better EPs and you can attach a music rest to it.

 

I have a series of piano-vocal gigs over the Christmas period which the CP5 will be absolutely ideal for, but in the longer term, its future is less clear. While I can envisage selling it, the same can't be said for the Roland, which probably tells me all I need to know.

 

Studio: Yamaha P515 | Yamaha Tyros 5 | Yamaha HX1 | Moog Sub 37

Road: Yamaha YC88 | Nord Electro 5D

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Thanks for your thoughts Aidan,

The CPs pianos don't have a lot of sustain - what do you think?

I wish the Roland would take a music stand - guess I'll have to lug one now, if I buy the NX that is.

 

I hope Yamaha are listening...

 

Darren

www.dazzjazz.com

PhD in Jazz Organ Improvisation.

BMus (Hons) Jazz Piano.

1961 A100.Leslie 45 & 122. MAG P-2 Organ. Kawai K300J. Yamaha CP4. Moog Matriarch. KIWI-8P.

 

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Aidan, we agree on much here - with regard to the RD-700GX. I often drop in and play the RD-700GXF that sits in the keyboard area of the shop at which I teach. I wish I could have made the RD fit into this year's budget, but the FP-4 has worked out fine in my live rig; plus I've got my hands full - enjoying the sound of the Motif XF7, yet wrangling with its' little quirks, interface and routing-wise. Yamaha does make some great sounding gear; but their user interfaces can sometimes give pause for thought; the times I've tried the CP-5/50 have been confusing - from the front panel - to say the least. I think that, sonically, Roland is now in the same league as Yamaha - especially with GFX, and NX on the way.

Perhaps next year the GXF, or NX may work out for me; we'll see.

 

Darren: The CP's do sound good, and play well - as long as I think 'piano only', not controller, or multi purpose keyoard. More and more though, I find the new RD's fall under my hands more naturally. I'm intrigued as to how the NX will play, and sound.

'Someday, we'll look back on these days and laugh; likely a maniacal laugh from our padded cells, but a laugh nonetheless' - Mr. Boffo.

 

We need a barfing cat emoticon!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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I think the CP5 has a superior feel and sound for Jazz playing then the RD700GX. The touch is more responsive and just more "Jazz friendly". The actions and sound on all these DPs are subjective--the individual player's technique and style of music will best determine how "it works" or doesn't. I never could connect that well with the 700's action for Jazz playing when I had it for about a month.

 

Sonically, the Roland has a very nice sound for chords, Classical Music and general legato playing. Even though the CP5 is a bit more sterile sounding, I'm beginning to like it more live. I've had a couple of instances recently where the CP5 was under a microscope from an audience perspective and it not only blended well in the rhythm section but projected out into the room where a few people in the club thought I'd brought in a good acoustic piano. :) . The high quality speakers and acoustics of the room have a lot to do with it. It's not perfect by any means but it is a serious upgrade from anything I've used in the past.

 

Now if the CP-5 could just go on a diet and lose 10-15 lbs. like my friend Mr. Nord Piano , I'd be groovin'. :cool:

https://soundcloud.com/dave-ferris

2005 NY Steinway D

Yamaha AvantGrand N3X, P-515

 

 

 

 

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I've been practising jazz heavily today on the CP5 and I have to say, it sounds great and the connectivity between hands and sound is spectacular - smooth as butter. I was reminded why the Yamaha hasn't, at least, gone straight back :)

Studio: Yamaha P515 | Yamaha Tyros 5 | Yamaha HX1 | Moog Sub 37

Road: Yamaha YC88 | Nord Electro 5D

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Aidan, I'm curious. You bought the SV-1 and the nord stage because the Roland was too heavy, but returned both for various reasons. At 25 kg the CP5 is the same weight as the Roland, yet you love your Roland and are kind of trying to justify the CP5. What purpose does the CP5 serve for you at the moment? The other two, it was weight reduction. With the CP5, why do you have it? Dissatisfied with the EPs in the Roland (in which cause I'm not sure why you wouldn't get a motif rack or nord electro 2 rack). Just wondering is all.

 

Oh and as far as the original topic went, I've played a roland V-piano in stores twice now, and it was REALLY fun to play. That said, I was comparing it to other DPs, and while the Roland was going through powered speakers, the other DPs sometimes weren't. Oh and I really liked the silver string piano. Can't say at $6000 I'd get it, but it is exciting, and it gives me hope for future DPs in 10 years or so.

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I'm wondering if in 10 years DPs will be the norm and acoustics might be for many purposes, superseded. Nothing like a nice acoustic though. There's a jazz gig here in Sydney with a Yamaha C5 and boy is that sweet to play.

www.dazzjazz.com

PhD in Jazz Organ Improvisation.

BMus (Hons) Jazz Piano.

1961 A100.Leslie 45 & 122. MAG P-2 Organ. Kawai K300J. Yamaha CP4. Moog Matriarch. KIWI-8P.

 

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Discotheque, I've more or less given up on the weight issue. The main reason for acquiring a second 88 was so that the other could be set up more or less permanently in my studio (see sig). But the fact that the CP5 also had better EPs than the Roland (without having to carry around my Motif XS Rack as well), plus decent rhythm patterns and a built-in mic input (I do a fair amount of piano/vocal gigs) was also a factor.

Studio: Yamaha P515 | Yamaha Tyros 5 | Yamaha HX1 | Moog Sub 37

Road: Yamaha YC88 | Nord Electro 5D

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With the release of the 700NX, I expect the V-Piano to go the way of the dodo bird.

I would doubt it... completely different technologies. Or do you think that the SN sampled piano is superior sounding to the V's modeled piano?

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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