Configuring Macbook pro for live use with Mainstage

[Phil Aiken]

Here is the current scheme.....will not be pulling the trigger for a while, but when I decide to do it, as is my wont, I will be impulsive and just go do it - so I am doing my research now.

Looking at

Macbook Pro 15' i5 (MAYBE i7)

8 GB RAM

7200 RPM conventional System Drive

Optibay replacing superdrive with SSD for sample streaming.

 

Questions:

1. Am I correct in assumming the SSD will give me the greatest benefit as the sample drive as opposed to the system drive?

1b. Should I switch these 2, or consider SSD for both drives?

2. Will I run into trouble if I need to reload the OS from an external drive?

3. Big difference between i5 and i7?

4. Can a macbook pro run with the lid shut, tucked safely away?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Joe Muscara]

The MBP can run closed. I do it all the time with mine, connected to an external monitor and input devices. I would just make sure it wasn't tucked too much away so it gets a reasonable amount of ventilation. I'm not sure what would be best though, besides not putting on top of a power amp and a completely enclosed space.

[timwat]

I use my internal SSD as both main drive and sample drive (kept the superdrive for now). Incredible performance improvement. Biggest problem with using MBP live is heat, especially on outdoor gigs in direct sunlight. It's not the best ventilated laptop made to begin with.

[AnotherScott]

4. Can a macbook pro run with the lid shut, tucked safely away?

 

I believe it only runs with the lid closed if you have an external monitor hooked up. If you are thinking of running it "blind" (which is feasible with some apps), it probably needs to be open. Though maybe just plugging the cable/adapter into the video port would be sufficient for it to think there was a monitor attached.

 

If you don't need it to run on batteries, you could also consider a Mac Mini, with a wireless bluetooth keyboard. I've been thinking about trying something like that, and have actually gotten a bit sidetracked, but it looked like it might be possible to also use an ipad as a wireless display. Logistically, I like that better than keeping a Macbook screen in eyeshot if I need the visuals.

[Phil Aiken]

I use my internal SSD as both main drive and sample drive (kept the superdrive for now). Incredible performance improvement. Biggest problem with using MBP live is heat, especially on outdoor gigs in direct sunlight. It's not the best ventilated laptop made to begin with.

 

Do you have success running large piano libraries at usable latencies with one drive?

 

[Joe Muscara]

I'm pretty sure I had Ivory Grand Pianos running on my older MacBook's internal drive for a while and it was fine. I wasn't doing much besides that though.

 

I doubt you'd have latency issues with one drive now especially if it was an SSD.

[Sven Golly]

it looked like it might be possible to also use an ipad as a wireless display.

 

Posted previously, but pertinent to this comment.

 

AirDisplay

[video:youtube]

 

The problem is the latency of the redraws over the Bluetooth connection.

[BlackandWhite]

Whoa. The thought of adding an external monitor/touchscreen (via wifi, I assume) to my already precarious MB-Mainstage live arrangement forces me to look at the horizon.

[AnotherScott]

it looked like it might be possible to also use an ipad as a wireless display.

 

Posted previously, but pertinent to this comment.

 

AirDisplay

 

The problem is the latency of the redraws over the Bluetooth connection.

 

Thanks for reposting, since I apparently missed its earlier appearance, and it's an interesting video.

 

However, Air Display will not work for the purpose I described. Yes, it allows you to use an iPad as a Mac Mini monitor, but only as a *second* monitor. Air Display will not function without an actual monitor connected to the Mac Mini. So I was going to look into VNC.

[Phil Aiken]

I use VNC wirelessly on my iPad as the front end of my Receptor and it works great.

 

[Sven Golly]

it looked like it might be possible to also use an ipad as a wireless display.

 

Posted previously, but pertinent to this comment.

 

AirDisplay

 

The problem is the latency of the redraws over the Bluetooth connection.

 

Thanks for reposting, since I apparently missed its earlier appearance, and it's an interesting video.

 

However, Air Display will not work for the purpose I described. Yes, it allows you to use an iPad as a Mac Mini monitor, but only as a *second* monitor. Air Display will not function without an actual monitor connected to the Mac Mini. So I was going to look into VNC.

 

Ah, yes... absolutely correct, sorry I missed that (obvious) requirement. I was thinking about it as a MacBook remote, and skipped over your proposed setup. Sorry about that!

 

 

[AnotherScott]

I use VNC wirelessly on my iPad as the front end of my Receptor and it works great.

 

Good to know! I'm thinking about using VNC on the iPad as a front end to a Mac Mini running Mainstage, with SSD instead of a hard drive, that sounds like it could be a pretty ideal music computer, in terms of speed, flexibility, light weight, ease of use, good on stage logistics, and roadworthniness.

 

I happen to be a Mac guy, but if someone wanted a Windows-based stage system, I think this still might be the ideal hardware for it, at least in its price range.

[AnotherScott]

Whoa. The thought of adding an external monitor/touchscreen (via wifi, I assume) to my already precarious MB-Mainstage live arrangement

 

Precarious in what sense? Physically precarious? Or are you talking about software stability/reliability in live performance? Or both?

[Moog_Man]

SSD are awesome if you can afford them. If you are just using this for mainstage and not much else (ie don't need a huge amount of space) I would put a pair of these bad boys in there

 

http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/internal_storage/Mercury_Extreme_SSD_Sandforce/Solid_State_Pro

 

Your MBP will also be extremely reliable, which is not to be underestimated on a gig.

[Phil Aiken]

SSD are awesome if you can afford them. If you are just using this for mainstage and not much else (ie don't need a huge amount of space) I would put a pair of these bad boys in there

 

http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/internal_storage/Mercury_Extreme_SSD_Sandforce/Solid_State_Pro

 

Your MBP will also be extremely reliable, which is not to be underestimated on a gig.

 

Well....Mainstage running Scarbee Electric Pianos, Ivory, Sampletekk pianos, Omnisphere, etc......so some space will be needed.....

 

[timwat]

I use my internal SSD as both main drive and sample drive (kept the superdrive for now). Incredible performance improvement. Biggest problem with using MBP live is heat, especially on outdoor gigs in direct sunlight. It's not the best ventilated laptop made to begin with.

 

Do you have success running large piano libraries at usable latencies with one drive?

 

Yes. I run Ivory Italian Grand as my primary acoustic piano, and Mainstage's (Logic's) internal synths for everything else, controlled by Casio PX3 and a nanoControl to give me the knobs and sliders. No latency issues to date.

[Moog_Man]

SSD are awesome if you can afford them. If you are just using this for mainstage and not much else (ie don't need a huge amount of space) I would put a pair of these bad boys in there

 

http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/internal_storage/Mercury_Extreme_SSD_Sandforce/Solid_State_Pro

 

Your MBP will also be extremely reliable, which is not to be underestimated on a gig.

 

Well....Mainstage running Scarbee Electric Pianos, Ivory, Sampletekk pianos, Omnisphere, etc......so some space will be needed.....

 

Gotcha. Maybe splurge on an SSD for one drive and stick in another 500GB 7200 rpm drive. It all just comes down to how much you want to spend. Regular drives are pretty stable these days so its not like you're going to have an inadequate system if you have a 7200 rpm drive in there.

[Jazzed]

4. Can a macbook pro run with the lid shut, tucked safely away?

 

I believe it only runs with the lid closed if you have an external monitor hooked up. If you are thinking of running it "blind" (which is feasible with some apps), it probably needs to be open. Though maybe just plugging the cable/adapter into the video port would be sufficient for it to think there was a monitor attached.

This free program will prevent your Mac OS X from going to sleep: http://semaja2.net/insomniaxinfo

[Phil Aiken]

SSD are awesome if you can afford them. If you are just using this for mainstage and not much else (ie don't need a huge amount of space) I would put a pair of these bad boys in there

 

http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/internal_storage/Mercury_Extreme_SSD_Sandforce/Solid_State_Pro

 

Your MBP will also be extremely reliable, which is not to be underestimated on a gig.

 

Well....Mainstage running Scarbee Electric Pianos, Ivory, Sampletekk pianos, Omnisphere, etc......so some space will be needed.....

 

Gotcha. Maybe splurge on an SSD for one drive and stick in another 500GB 7200 rpm drive. It all just comes down to how much you want to spend. Regular drives are pretty stable these days so its not like you're going to have an inadequate system if you have a 7200 rpm drive in there.

 

DO you think I'd be better off with the SSD as the sample drive, and the 7200 as the system drive, or the other way around?

 

My limited understanding after only starting to research is that the downside of SSD drives is that their performance can downgrade somewhat when being written to a lot. Which would lead me to believe that having the conventional system drive and using the SSD to stream the large sample libraries that will only be read after putting them on there is the way to go. Happy to be corrected on this, though.

 

 

 

[BlackandWhite]

Precarious in what sense? Physically precarious? Or are you talking about software stability/reliability in live performance? Or both?

I meant the latter. I've done some 40 gigs and 15 rehearsals with my MB/Mainstage rig and have had one major meltdown and 3 smaller "anomalies." Might just be my own luck/incompetence, but the thought of further complicating that set up gives me the willies.

 

I am a big vst fan for live gigging, notwithstanding the technical gremlins they introduce; I just wish the whole technology was more solid.

[Phil Aiken]

Precarious in what sense? Physically precarious? Or are you talking about software stability/reliability in live performance? Or both?

I meant the latter. I've done some 40 gigs and 15 rehearsals with my MB/Mainstage rig and have had one major meltdown and 3 smaller "anomalies." Might just be my own luck/incompetence, but the thought of further complicating that set up gives me the willies.

 

I am a big vst fan for live gigging, notwithstanding the technical gremlins they introduce; I just wish the whole technology was more solid.

 

FWIW - And I know there are haters among us - but I have played hundreds of shows with my Receptor without incident. My needs are simple, though, and I know how to keep the machine happy, and what might induce an occasional crash, so I avoid those things.

 

 

 

 

 

[burningbusch]

I am not a huge fan of Mainstage. I have used it live, some, but I've also spent enough time with it at home trying to get it configured as I need and have, on too many occasions, experienced glitches and crashes.

 

I use Ableton Live which I feel is a much more robust app. I set it up so that each instrument (or class of instrument) is active on its own MIDI channel, e.g. ac piano on channel #1, EPs on #2, etc. This requires a keyboard controller that supports multiple zones, enough presets, and program change at preset/zone level. Mainstage is great if you have a very basic controller and you need the app to do everything. I use a lot of Native Instruments soft synths as they all support MIDI program change. With EPs, for example, I use MIDI channel #2 and have both Scarbee Rhodes and Wurly loaded in Kontakt in an INSTRUMENT BANK. I can switch between them with program changes.

 

The way I use Live is very straightforward and I believe this is a big reason why it has been so stable for me.

 

Also, once the laptop has booted and Live is loaded, I never touch the thing the rest of the night. Everything is controlled from the keyboard controller. I turn the lid down but don't close it. I have no use for screens, computer keyboards, mice or an ipad interfacing to this stuff. The laptop is just a black box that permanently sits in a Studio Flyer case. Everything is pre-wire and only a couple of connections are required during set up.

 

Busch.

[AnotherScott]

DO you think I'd be better off with the SSD as the sample drive, and the 7200 as the system drive, or the other way around?

 

My limited understanding after only starting to research is that the downside of SSD drives is that their performance can downgrade somewhat when being written to a lot. Which would lead me to believe that having the conventional system drive and using the SSD to stream the large sample libraries that will only be read after putting them on there is the way to go. Happy to be corrected on this, though.

 

That sounds logical. But it's so tempting to want to get the speed from an SSD boot volume too! Short of installing two SSDs, I wonder if it's reasonable to partition an SSD. Say, a 120 gb SSD with a 40gB boot partition and an 80 gig partition to hold all the virtual instruments, for example.

[Moog_Man]

You are correct about SSDs being best for reading, but they are still good all around drives. Your apps will launch lightening fast on an SSD. I haven't heard much testimony about what their longevity is like if they are being written to all the time, so you are right, that is questionable (perhaps someone else can provide better insight).

 

A partition won't make a difference- its still the same drive. Nothing to be gained from doing that performance wise.

 

 

[AnotherScott]

You are correct about SSDs being best for reading, but they are still good all around drives. Your apps will launch lightening fast on an SSD. I haven't heard much testimony about what their longevity is like if they are being written to all the time, so you are right, that is questionable (perhaps someone else can provide better insight).

 

A partition won't make a difference- its still the same drive. Nothing to be gained from doing that performance wise.

 

I should clarify... I wasn't asking about partitioning for performance reasons, but rather because writes apparently degrade the SSD faster than reads, which is why the other poster figured he's put his read-heavy stuff on the SSD. My idea was, for fastest speed, put it all on SSD, but if you partition it so the write-heavy boot volume is on one partition, and your read-heavy sample streaming is on another, then if and when the boot partition ultimately starts generating errors from all the write, at least you still have a working data partition instead of having to chuck the whole thing, and you have an interim functioning ability of booting from something else and still having all your usual samples and such just where they always were. Just an idea... I've actually just ordered my first SSD to play with...