Help Me Identify this Hammond UPDATED n Dug Into

[HAMEGZ]

According to a copy of a service manual I found on the internet the dimensions is measure 23 x 44 1/4 x 37 1/2 are very similar to a model A or AB. There is no serial number to be found inside the organ. It has a Trek Percussion Kit added, with a Trek Leslie switch and Trek Reverb added. One the modesty panel is a toggle switch for normal and vibrato chorus

 

http://i384.photobucket.com/albums/oo288/slutelservices/ORGAN/organ003.jpg

 

here is the organ

 

http://i384.photobucket.com/albums/oo288/slutelservices/ORGAN/organ001.jpg

 

the vibrato knob

 

http://i384.photobucket.com/albums/oo288/slutelservices/ORGAN/organ004.jpg

 

Are these enough pix and dimensions to help ID it?

 

 

 

 

[Jim Alfredson]

It's an A. First model Hammond produced.

[retrokeys]

Also it looks like the cabinet has been modified. The top has either been reversed or replaced with what looks like a panel from a C model.

[B3Nut]

Yup. Model A, fitted with a postwar vibrato kit (that necessitated mounting the vibrato delay line underneath the console due to the shallowness of the A case.) It appears to have a Trek II solid-state preamp with percussion in it a well. If that's the case, I bet this box sounds fantastic with a ton of bite.

 

TP

[Outkaster]

Looks a little better than mine.

[Jon May]

So...does it work? What's it sound like ?? :-b

 

 

[HAMEGZ]

Thanks everyone for affirming what I thought. I purchased it,along with a 147, and bench from a local music store about 15 years ago. They didnt know what is was, called it a "B3".

 

It has some broken keys on the top manual, along with the normal scratchy drawbars.Yes it spins up and plays. The 147 has the original tubes that came with it when I bought it,(maybe its original from the factory, I have to check)

 

Im either going to find a "donor" M or something like that to find the keys to repair it(is that sacrilegious?) or check places like Goff for parts.

 

It came out of a gospel based southern church down here. Itwont go on the road and stay in my studio.

 

[mate stubb]

Keys are easy. 5 bucks:

 

click here

[HAMEGZ]

Thank you , Dave, for the link. That is inexpensive. I haven't taken the keybed out yet so I am not familiar if there is a spring or how the tension is applied to keep the key "up", that's the problem with the keys, they are down. Can some one send me a link to an exploded view of the keybed assembly?

 

As you might be able to see in the pix one Bb key is also broken

[Threadslayer]

What a warhorse. I bet it could tell some stories.

[mate stubb]

Thank you , Dave, for the link. That is inexpensive. I haven't taken the keybed out yet so I am not familiar if there is a spring or how the tension is applied to keep the key "up", that's the problem with the keys, they are down. Can some one send me a link to an exploded view of the keybed assembly?

 

As you might be able to see in the pix one Bb key is also broken

 

Not sure what you mean by "down". I don't see any keys down in the pics above. If you mean white playing keys are stuck down, that could be anything from a loose mounting screw on the spring to a mangled key channel.

 

If you mean a black key is stuck down, those are supposed to latch one at a time as they turn on presets or drawbar sets. The far left black key cancels any that are latched.

[HAMEGZ]

look at the pix of the organ upper manual the Bb is down and its not stuck either .It is laying flush with the A and B key, its the next to last octave.

 

I am aware of the preset keys manner of operation and they stay engaged

[mate stubb]

OK, I see it. First thing is to look in the back at the row of screws on the top manual that fasten the key springs. Looks like you lost a screw there.

 

Here's a pic showing how they fasten. It's from my custom midi controller, so ignore the various circuit boards, and other nonstandard stuff. Those rectangular tabs pinned by a screw are the springs at the back of the key rail. If you lost a screw or it is real loose, the key will sag. The threads are 6/32 if you need to replace it.

 

http://www.hotrodmotm.com/images/hammond/drawbars22.jpg

 

 

[HAMEGZ]

DAVE, you ARE the man !! That helps a lot!!!

[B3Nut]

Actually, the A here will not have the screws at the back of the keychannel as in Moe's pic. Early Hammond manuals used an extruded aluminum keychannel with a vertical threaded post behind the pivot point, with the keychannel held down by a coil-spring-loaded nut (which, incidentally, makes adjusting manual tension a breeze.) The stamped keychannel with the leaf spring at the rear came out around 1940 or so IIRC. Later smooth waterfall keys fit the 1st-gen keychannels perfectly BTW...I re-did a set of BC manuals like that once.

 

Most early A's don't have shiftable busbars, either, interestingly enough....

 

TP

[mate stubb]

Actually, the A here will not have the screws at the back of the keychannel as in Moe's pic. Early Hammond manuals used an extruded aluminum keychannel

 

Hmmm, I wondered about that. All my organs have been B-2 and newer, so I apologize for the bad advice.

[HAMEGZ]

well I will have the answer when I tear into the organ . SO according to Todd then I am missing the spring/nut or it is misadjusted...

[B3Nut]

Actually, the A here will not have the screws at the back of the keychannel as in Moe's pic. Early Hammond manuals used an extruded aluminum keychannel

 

Hmmm, I wondered about that. All my organs have been B-2 and newer, so I apologize for the bad advice.

 

No prob. If you ever get a chance to tear into one of the really old ones, do it...if you dig in the manual chassis, you'll often find signatures and dates. The employees left a little bit of themselves behind for us to find and contemplate. I have an early Model C converted to CV in the project pipeline...looking forward to digging into that box. The extruded keychannels were costlier to make, you can see why they revised the design. It was a superior design, however...even if the leaf-spring stamped keychannels have stood the test of time in the long run as far as reliability goes. The first design was a work of art.

[HAMEGZ]

Got a chance to spend some time with the A after work. Repaired the sticking Bb key, it was as simple as tightening the nut

 

 

A sticking white key on the lower manual was fixed when I pulled the metal strip that holds the lip of the top waterfall keys and found the felt strip was loose and binding it .

 

I started digging into it to find some serial number or info. I found what I think was a recap job.I don't think mylars were used in 1935.

 

http://i384.photobucket.com/albums/oo288/slutelservices/ORGAN/organ001-1.jpg

 

 

I read a post above about tearing further into it to look for "clues" and I want to do it to try to ID the year. I did find a letter P and number 1x6x stamped in red on a metal shield where the lower manual is, inside the organ.

 

I played it for a while after doing the repairs and finally had to stop for supper , or else I would still be there.

 

I did notice two things concerning the Vibrato. When the vibrato is engaged, there are three depths of vibrato with each click of the V knob, but it seems to "dull up " the sound, or the upper harmonics seem to disappear.

 

Second when the chorus position of the toggle switch is engaged, I cannot hear any perceivable chorus.

 

Looks like I need to purchase a service manual it should help me troubleshoot my organ.

 

Thanks everyone for their input and comments

 

[Outkaster]

Nice, good work.

[B3Nut]

if you could, toss up a couple overviews of the inside of the rear. Also, if the preamp and rheostat box have been replaced with a Trek II the serial number plate is likely gone as that normally mounted to the expression rheostat box. The tg caps look like the ones that come in the kits from Goff or BB Organ. The chorus toggle is possibly shorted. As for the dulling of the highs, check to see if the vibrato line (silver box under the organ) has the original paper caps. If so, recap the line.

 

For a schematic, an early BV schem will get you partway there at least as far as the vibrato line goes, but the preamp and expression parts of the schematic will no longer be valid since all that has been replaced by the Trek II unit. Trek II can provide the schematic for that unit if none was provided with the organ.

 

As long as all the generator and manual tones are all there, there's nothing here really that's all that troublesome to fix, just silly niggly things. If the AC wiring hasn't been replaced (it likely has, if they've gone through the trouble to recap the TG and install a Trek II) replace it for safety.

 

TP

[HAMEGZ]

i found a schematic for the Vib delay line(Google was my friend)

and have traced out the chorus portion of the circuit . The V/C toggle switch does short out a resistor R43 for V only , there is also an 18K R39 in series that could be open. I have a sig tracer and VOM i can troubleshoot it down.

 

Old caps in the delay line box are prob the culprit.Looks to 30 or so in the box. Since the dulling appears on all three positions im sure all need replacing.

 

Ah yes the AC plug is an OLD 2 prong type and the line cord is two wire so YES I need to replace those ASAP.

 

Thank you for your suggestions

[B3Nut]

Less worried about 2-prong than possibly frayed/rotting wiring. I've never rewired a Hammond for grounded 3-wire, and generally it's best to leave the AC side of older gear as-built with the exception of death caps. The UL listing is only valid if the AC wiring is stock. Not to say that one can't improve the design, but I would only do that on a 1963-or-later -3 series box with the black power transformer. Earlier -2 and -3 series organs with the silver wax-potted power transformer can be problematic as the old transformers often leak AC to the chassis, and having the chassis grounded can actually cause the transformers to overheat and even fail catastrophically in rare cases. This isn't a concern with the Trek II solid-state preamp, however.

 

TP

[HAMEGZ]

OK well actually the wiring AC wise is in good shape insulation wise. So I may leave it as is. I do however, have the 147 Leslie with original tube amp and all its ac voltage being fed from the organ, should I be concerned with any wiring there?

The cloth covered wires for the DB are not bad for over 60 years old

[mate stubb]

I do however, have the 147 Leslie with original tube amp and all its ac voltage being fed from the organ, should I be concerned with any wiring there?

 

Just make sure your leslie cable is intact, with no stiffness or cracks, and that the connectors are well soldered with no stray wires waving about.

[HAMEGZ]

I havent done anything to the AC plug buts shes up and running.

Thanks to everyone here and Michael over at Trek II I got the chorus/vibrato working better. The delay line still has the original wax caps in it so I will prob do a recap job. I got a nice warm feeling from playing it last night. I have one key on the upper manual that doesnt respond to the 16 ' DB, I am assuming its an issue with the buss bar under that key .

There is nothing like the smell of oil and wood and aged electronics and the SOUND of a real Hammond and Leslie.

BTW I was told by Michael that the installer is supposed to copy the SN of the organ on the cover plate of the Trek Pre-amp but the number is 69350 so thats above the range for an A. Unless the 0 is something else or the 6 is a smudge.LOL

[mate stubb]

Non-sounding harmonics are common on a Hammond that has not been played in a long time. If you only have 1 such, you are in great shape.

 

The first thing to do is try to dislodge any dust by firing some rapid keystrikes on the offending key, say 100 or more.

 

Then just play the crap out of the organ. A lot of scratchiness will go away if it is regularly played.

[HAMEGZ]

A kit with new caps and resistors for the vibrato delay line is on its way from the tonewheel general hospital!!!

 

I am pleased with the prices for replacement parts. It isnt that expensive to keep these beauties going.