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light weight gig?


Eric VB

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Looking for a promoter to help get bar, under new management, to get off the ground. Would like promoter to help organize and book parties, get togethers, live bands, dancing or entertainment. Commission-based pay dependeant on percentage of guests. Long term relationship preferred. Will work with you to help promote.
If you're a band working the bar circuit you're already a promoter for your band.

 

Why not save yourself the hassle of load in/load out, practice/rehearsal, maintaining equipment and working with musicians?

 

All the venues want nowadays is for someone to bring people into their place. Entertainment is optional. It's all about promotions.

 

Discuss.

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Well, for a bar-owner it really is all about getting people in the place -- no patrons, no money.

 

And that requires promotion -- maybe the guy knows how to run a bar but doesn't know much about marketing.

 

The ad does mention booking "live bands, dancing or entertainment."

"Tours widely in the southwestern tip of Kentucky"
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True. We just tried a house gig at a local restaurant. It had just opened. We tried to help the owner/manager run it like a club, but he kept running it like a laundromat. We'd get people in during the set, but every time we took a break he'd turn the house lights on (club-speak for "It's time to leave now"). Then he decided to go in a different direction. We found out that we were no longer the house band when one of our members got a Facebook notification that the place was looking for bands, especially rap.

 

I drove by there last weekend. All the bar and wait staff was standing outside. Nobody there to wait on, I guess.

Do not be deceived by, nor take lightly, this particular bit of musicianship one simply describes as "bass". - Lowell George

 

"The music moves me, it just moves me ugly." William H. Macy in "Wild Hogs"

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Sounds to me it's just the bar owner wants somebody to handle that stuff for him so he doesn't have to. He gets to sit around and run the daily affairs and rake in the money. Plus he doesn't have to pay this person unless they drag in enough people. Also he's got an instant scape goat if it all goes sour. A win for the bar owner.

Lydian mode? The only mode I know has the words "pie ala" in front of it.

http://www.myspace.com/theeldoradosband

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All the venues want nowadays is for someone to bring people into their place. Entertainment is optional. It's all about promotions.

 

We've actually had bar owners say this to us. It's the way things are for the most part although I don't like it. With this crappy economy and the severe crackdown on drunk drivers it's just cheaper and safer to stay at home, watch the game on TV and have a couple beers with the Buds. Especially the folks in my age range. Many bars really don't have that much to offer patrons that will pack the place so they get others to do their work for them. Entertaining them is just a plus.

Lydian mode? The only mode I know has the words "pie ala" in front of it.

http://www.myspace.com/theeldoradosband

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Why is a bar owner too busy to deal with booking entertainment.? I never understood this. I work my ass of at my job and still have time to play and rehearse. If part of my business was booking entertainmenmt, I would strive to do it well.
"When I take a stroll down Jackass Lane it is usually to see someone that is already there" Mrs. Brown
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Actually, if he really isn't good at it he's probably better off outsourcing it to someone who is -- that's a fairly common business practice and a good one in some circumstances.

 

Otherwise you end you dealing with a bonehead like thebottomend had to.

"Tours widely in the southwestern tip of Kentucky"
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Well, for a bar-owner it really is all about getting people in the place -- no patrons, no money.

 

And that requires promotion -- maybe the guy knows how to run a bar but doesn't know much about marketing.

 

The ad does mention booking "live bands, dancing or entertainment."

All good points.

 

They need customers. Fair enough.

 

This appears to be more evidence of a new twist on things as far as I can tell. In the not so distant past, those bar owners who didn't know much about marketing used to hire bands and let the bands do all of the promoting. (I guess that's why nobody is hiring the Bud girls anymore; they didn't bring enough friends with them. ;) ) Now they are saying "screw the bands, we'll pay anybody to steer paying customers our way."

 

[Yes, I know, the Bud girls only show when Bud is footing the bill for marketing and promotions, placing radio and print ads and hiring the models. The models are paid strictly as brand ambassadors and are not expected to bring a following.]

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Actually, if he really isn't good at it he's probably better off outsourcing it to someone who is -- that's a fairly common business practice and a good one in some circumstances.

 

Otherwise you end you dealing with a bonehead like thebottomend had to.

Another excellent point. I agree. If he doesn't know how to market his place he should hire someone to market it for him.

 

However, does a club with few patrons need a promoter who will book his friends' birthday parties there? Is that the best strategy for long-term growth?

 

Economically it sounds great. The club doesn't have to lay out any cash and only has to pay a percent of actual profits made. Zero risk.

 

OTOH a marketing firm costs money. They may want to change things to better fit the neighborhood demographics so people actually want to come to the club. Then they'll want money for an advertising campaign to tell people about the hot new club in town. All that cash and there's no guarantee that anyone will show up!

 

So the solution is simple. Someone needs to start a chain club. That way the chain can bombard people with advertising (a la McDonald's) and the actual clubs can just sit back and serve drinks. Kind of like Hard Rock Cafe except including live music and dancing in the business plan.

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I've seen this bar owner's strategy work... and not work... even in the same room.

 

I know of a room that was once a pretty respectable venue. Great location. In the late '70s and early '80s, this was very obviously the place to be. Things were going so well that the owner even bought the attached building next door and opened a restaurant.

 

But something happened--the restaurant started doing well, and the owner basically stopped caring about the venue side of the business. At one point in the mid 90's, the owner chained the doors and acted like the venue wasn't even there. It just sat, fallow.

 

Musicians started asking the owner about booking shows. The owner said, "Sure, you can book shows--Rent the room from me on a weekly basis. Bring in a PA. Bring in security. Charge what you want at the door. I will provide a bartender and booze. I take the bar, you take the door."

 

In other words, the owner was willing to do next to nothing.

 

Naturally, a few brave souls took up the gauntlet--underground promoters who needed a room for a rave, goth promoters who needed a room for a specialty tour package, punk promoters who needed a room for an "unbookable" band, etc. But these were one-off gigs that basically filled the room for one night. Between these shows, nothing happened in the room at all... not even cleaning crew would visit the joint.

 

It quickly went from spiffy, '70s retro chic to a really busted-down dump--broken windows, filthy floor, broken wall-boards... it just went to hell. I played there fairly often during this period. It was fun because there were basically no rules, but the room was absolutely decrepit and sad. I saw a racist skinhead catch a beating there at the hands of two huge bouncers (the skin was "seig heiling" and acting like an idiot, throwing beers, etc.), and they left him on the floor to bleed until someone finally dragged him outside. Yes. It was THAT kind of dump.

 

In the late '90s, a promoter with a connection to a big radio station took up the challenge of booking the room. The owner offered this promoter the exact same deal as everyone else, but the difference here was that this promoter had pull with a radio station and a lot of influence on local bands.

 

Suddenly, the joint was always busy, always booked, always popping... it was hip again. It stayed that way for about two years, when the radio station changed formats... the promoter was ass-out, and there was no longer a reason for bands to take his calls. He no longer had pull, and he no longer had money... and he could no longer pay the rent. The owner said, "We had a nice run. Bye!" and chained the doors again.

 

Since then, it's gone back to being a "I need it for one night" kind of venue. I don't think it's been cleaned yet, either.

 

Now, obviously, this isn't quite the situation described in the initial post, where the owner is looking for a way to build business with some kind of entertainment, but I think it's applicable to the discussion, as it shows how a promoter with the right kind of pull (or skills) can take a basically nothing place and make it profitable.

 

I think most simple bars pretty much just get along as simple bars. They don't make a huge profit, but they stay in business and draw out a salary for the folks employed there. Many bar owners would like to pull in more business in some way, with live music or something of that nature, but they don't want to expend extra time, money or energy to get that to happen... especially since they get by without that kind of extra stuff (and potential headache) already. Hence, you wind up with folks posting on CL, asking for "some kind of promoter" to "do something" with the bar.

 

I can tell you what could very well happen with the bar in the original post--some youngish person will use the place to book all of their friends' bands (and their own band) and become a mini local celebrity for a while... if they're organized. They can use the place as a home base for show trades for out-of-town acts. Having a venue for trading shows is a an extremely valuable commodity when booking DIY tours.

 

Of course, this whole scenario would really hinge on the success of the shows booked and the pliability of the owner... as well as the degree to which the owner will accept a ridiculous amount of racket and other such nonsense (graffiti, drunk 2-somethings outside, drugs, etc.)

 

 

\m/

Erik

"To fight and conquer in all your battles is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence consists of breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting."

--Sun Tzu

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The live music promotion game is a tough one. I did it (successfully) at a club for 10 years, and I have also promoted arena shows, theater concerts, outdoor festivals, and private events. While the overhead at a club is the most favorable scenario, it's still there.

 

Let's say I hired a relatively inexpensive 6-peice band for $800. They travel with a sound/merch guy, so I need 7 beds for this group, which is 4 hotel rooms. Assuming I can work a deal for those rooms ($75 each), that's another $300. Our house tech was $150/night. We spent about $300/show on radio, print ads, and flyers. For those nights we did shows, we'd need 2 extra bouncers (1 to deal with cover charge, 1 to stamp hands). At the time, they were $10/hour, so $75 each times 2 guys= $150.

 

We're up to $1700.

 

We also had about $30,000 in sound and light equipment. Obviously, that equipment needed maintenance and repairs occasionally, too. When something broke, we got it fixed right away. Nothing worse than surprising a band with fewer monitor mixes than they were expecting.

 

I had to make a living, too. I didn't make a ton, but my salary was enough to keep me going.

 

We figured out that sound/lights/Andy's wage worked out to about $300/show in the long run.

 

Bottom line: it cost $2,000 to promote a show with an $800 band.

 

An $800 band is not going to command a ticket price more than $5. That's just what the market will bear. That means we need 400 paid in order to break even at the door. 400 paid is a damn good night. Less than that, and we lost money.

 

Yes, we had the bar sales, too. That always worked out to $12/head, give or take a buck or two. Profit on bar sales, once you pay for product, staff, insurance, etc., is about 50%, best case scenario. That's $6/head.

 

Realistically, we'd usually do about 250 paid for a show like this. That means we made $1250 at the door, plus $1500 in bar profit. $2750 in income vs. $2000 in expenses=$750 profit. That seems ok, right?

 

Let's compare that with the another scenario: skip the band and turn on a ball game for the customers. Only half the people show up, but they still spend $12 each (probably a little more, actually, because we could serve food on those nights). Even so, 125 people X $6 profit per person=$750 profit.

 

That's the same bottom line, and a LOT less hassle. It's also a LOT less risk.

 

The dirty part of live music promotion rears its ugly head from time to time in the form of poor attendance. Every so often, for one reason or another, a show falls on its face. In those cases, the club owner just flat loses $2,000.

 

On the other hand, if a ball game on tv comes up short, it doesn't really cost anything.

 

Bottom line: The only club owners willing to deal with live music AT ALL are passionate about it, even if they seem a little salty. The only ones who have survived for more than a year or two are also smart about it. They have to be, or else they couldn't sustain it. That means they have to choose their shows wisely.

 

As musicians, our survival depends on the survival of clubs. Work with them, keeping these numbers in mind, and you'll be more successful.

 

 

 

 

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