Wakeman/Anderson concert

[BP3]

Brford will not come out of retirement to be a part of "Yes" in any form. Take that one to the bank.

[Cygnus64]

Brford will not come out of retirement to be a part of "Yes" in any form. Take that one to the bank.

I could have sworn that The Eagles said something similiar. Must be my imagination.

 

You're probably correct though (do you know Bruford?). Unfortunately, I doubt there's an Eagles-sized paycheck out there for a reunion of the classic lineup. Backing a Brinks truck full O' money into someones driveway will get 99.9% of people out of retirement, but that's not going to happen.

[Mark Schmieder]

Yeah, AnotherScott's comment rings true, regarding Squire as heart of the band. I love "Fish Out of Water" and definitely hear more connection to Yes than the other solo material. Howe's solo albums seem primarily designed to let people know which parts he wrote.

 

Interesting comments about the reunions and possible lineup switches. I do think it has kept Yes interesting over the years, even if at cost to their internal relations. In some ways their path has been similar to that of King Crimson, in this regard.

[Bosendorphen]

I've enjoyed most of the other albums without Wakeman too. I think the most underrated is "Talk", there's some really nice material on that album.

 

Yeah, I quite enjoy "Talk." I didn't like it when it first came out but after repeated listens (and getting the alternate version of "The Calling" with the spacey middle section) I really appreciate it now and it's actually, much to my surprise, one of my favorite Yes albums. And historic in a way as it was mostly recorded on computer which at the time was a big deal. Hats off to Trevor Rabin to have the balls to give that a go what with all the synch issues and hard drive limitations he had to deal with at the time.

 

I've enjoyed every incarnation of the band. That makes me what they call a YesWhole. I've enjoyed seeing the current incarnation of the band; I don't need Anderson or (Rick) Wakeman to be there to consider it to be Yes. I like a shake up now and again and who knows, perhaps the new album will be amazing. That Trevor Horn is producing is pretty promising.

[ProfD]

I certainly don't feel sorry for the Yes offspring one bit considering they haven't had to do a real pick-up gig in over 40 years.

 

If/when they get desperate for bread, they can snap that sh*t back together like Voltron, hit the studio and/or stage, embark on a tour, collect chips and once satisfied in their portion, go back to bickering.

 

I think it is great that these musicians have been around for over four decades and still have the ability to draw out listeners.

[Tonysounds]

Brford will not come out of retirement to be a part of "Yes" in any form. Take that one to the bank.

This was to be a pre-retirement venture that would NOT play Yes music. Apparently Rabin wants nothing to do with the Yes stigma either.

 

 

[Tonysounds]

I think it is great that these musicians have been around for over four decades and still have the ability to draw out listeners.

What makes you think they can? Their Chicago appearance apparently was dreadful in terms of audience size. My bud is a Yes-hole if ever there was one his sister was their tour hair stylist for a number of years in the 70s/80s- and he said it was kind of sad.

[ProfD]

I think it is great that these musicians have been around for over four decades and still have the ability to draw out listeners.

What makes you think they can? Their Chicago appearance apparently was dreadful in terms of audience size. My bud is a Yes-hole if ever there was one his sister was their tour hair stylist for a number of years in the 70s/80s- and he said it was kind of sad.

Granted, they will never pack venues like they did 20-30 years ago. But, there is still some demand for their music. IMO, it is a matter of adjusting the venue size.

 

To that end, I doubt they have fallen down to playing the casino circuit and/or banquet rooms at the Holiday Inn.

[Cygnus64]

I think it is great that these musicians have been around for over four decades and still have the ability to draw out listeners.

What makes you think they can? Their Chicago appearance apparently was dreadful in terms of audience size. My bud is a Yes-hole if ever there was one his sister was their tour hair stylist for a number of years in the 70s/80s- and he said it was kind of sad.

 

They could if they:

1. Had the "classic" lineup or close

2. Toured with another prog band like ELP.

 

The Kansas/Foreigner/Styx show had a good turnout here. I want me a Yes/King Crimson/ELP show dag nabit.

[Tonysounds]

See Krimson can fill a small theatre on their own. unlike Yes. (they did slightly more than half the room when they did Star Plaza last time they were here.)

[Bosendorphen]

Yes pretty much filled the Warner Theater in D.C. when I saw them last February. Pretty much the same at Ram's Head Live in Baltimore before that. According to Henry Bondegezou's Yes reports they've played London to 3,308 fans. Some figures from the website at http://www.bondegezou.co.uk/wnyesm.htm

 

They were then on a North American tour until 15 Jul, with Peter Frampton opening (except for 12 and 27 Jun shows without Frampton; and a free show on 4 Jul, when Yes opened for Frampton). 26 dates were announced. The total length of show was around 3 hours. Squire estimated the audience at their 23 Jun Virginia show at 7-8,000. The 29 May show sold 877 tickets, grossing $30,155; the 9 Jun show sold 1,936 tickets, grossing $148,934; the 16 Jun show sold 1,913 tickets, grossing $66,955. The 9 Jul show sold 4,843 tickets, grossing $282,768; Trevor Rabin joined the band on stage for the first encore, while Chris's son, Cameron, was in the audience. Estimates of the audience at the 4 Jul free show, at which Yes opened, vary from ~25,000 to ~150,000,

 

There are conflicting reports as to the expected attendance on the 6 Jul: a report of 10,000 was later dismissed, but other reports vary from 2-5,000. Lisa LaRue (worked with John Payne) was present during the event.

 

The band did an eastern US winter tour of 19 dates through to 28 Feb 2010. The opening night had an attendance of ~2700. The 14 Feb New York show was sold out (~1500 attendance), while the 27 Feb show had an attendance estimated at between 1200-1500.

 

The band played 30 European dates through to Dec 2009 . Several UK shows were sold out, including 16 Nov Birmingham (1,800), 17 Nov London (3,380), 22 Nov Manchester (2,557) and 23 Nov Bristol (1,654). 19 Nov Edinburgh sold 1,613 tickets and 20 Nov Newcastle sold 1,382. The 5 Dec Erfurt, Germany show had an audience of about 2,500.

So they aren't doing too badly. Cleveland was indeed dismal compared to other venues with only 800 some people. New Orleans was below 1000 as well so some areas did poorer than other. But overall a respectable turnout for a band that hasn't had a new studio release in 9 years.

[Gary75]

I remember seeing Rick and his son Adam at a small local leisure centre 15 years ago. About 100 people. They were using two Korg Prophecys and I felt cheated no Moog.

[Tonysounds]

So they aren't doing too badly. Cleveland was indeed dismal compared to other venues with only 800 some people. New Orleans was below 1000 as well so some areas did poorer than other. But overall a respectable turnout for a band that hasn't had a new studio release in 9 years.

 

That tour was with Peter Frampton, which upped the numbers. Chicago was a massive fanbase for Yes. The last 5 times I've seen them, they've undersold the venues every time. Rosemont Horizon held 18,0000, they sold 3000 tickets. World Theater holds 20,000, they sold 1200 and gave away 800 seats. (Couldn't give the rest away.) Star Plaza holds 8000 I think, so they sold less than 4000 tickets.

 

When you're underselling venues consistently, it's time to scale back, and when you are scaling back, and you are still underselling....

 

The big part of their problem is the fact that they have used up fan appreciation and are now past their prime. The fact that there's no new music isn't the issue....they were having these same problems when they did have new cds (cuz they've put out new material in the last 12 years). ANd they endlessly repackage stuff which isn't helping either.

[Al Coda]

Yes pretty much filled the Warner Theater in D.C. when I saw them last February. Pretty much the same at Ram's Head Live in Baltimore before that. According to Henry Bondegezou's Yes reports they've played London to 3,308 fans. Some figures from the website at http://www.bondegezou.co.uk/wnyesm.htm

 

They were then on a North American tour until 15 Jul, with Peter Frampton opening (except for 12 and 27 Jun shows without Frampton; and a free show on 4 Jul, when Yes opened for Frampton). 26 dates were announced. The total length of show was around 3 hours. Squire estimated the audience at their 23 Jun Virginia show at 7-8,000. The 29 May show sold 877 tickets, grossing $30,155; the 9 Jun show sold 1,936 tickets, grossing $148,934; the 16 Jun show sold 1,913 tickets, grossing $66,955. The 9 Jul show sold 4,843 tickets, grossing $282,768; Trevor Rabin joined the band on stage for the first encore, while Chris's son, Cameron, was in the audience. Estimates of the audience at the 4 Jul free show, at which Yes opened, vary from ~25,000 to ~150,000,

 

There are conflicting reports as to the expected attendance on the 6 Jul: a report of 10,000 was later dismissed, but other reports vary from 2-5,000. Lisa LaRue (worked with John Payne) was present during the event.

 

The band did an eastern US winter tour of 19 dates through to 28 Feb 2010. The opening night had an attendance of ~2700. The 14 Feb New York show was sold out (~1500 attendance), while the 27 Feb show had an attendance estimated at between 1200-1500.

 

The band played 30 European dates through to Dec 2009 . Several UK shows were sold out, including 16 Nov Birmingham (1,800), 17 Nov London (3,380), 22 Nov Manchester (2,557) and 23 Nov Bristol (1,654). 19 Nov Edinburgh sold 1,613 tickets and 20 Nov Newcastle sold 1,382. The 5 Dec Erfurt, Germany show had an audience of about 2,500.

So they aren't doing too badly. Cleveland was indeed dismal compared to other venues with only 800 some people. New Orleans was below 1000 as well so some areas did poorer than other. But overall a respectable turnout for a band that hasn't had a new studio release in 9 years.

 

Well, at a 1st glance it looks good but according to the afford of production, logistics, transports, hotels, bandbus, crewbus, flights and count of tech personal etc.,- these average ticket sales result in a losing deal.

The breakeven point for such bands per concert-day is quite high.

 

A.C.

[Cygnus64]

Well, at a 1st glance it looks good but according to the afford of production, logistics, transports, hotels, bandbus, crewbus, flights and count of tech personal etc.,- these average ticket sales result in a losing deal.

The breakeven point for such bands per concert-day is quite high.

 

A.C.

 

Their show is relatively simple as far as set and crew. If they stuck to venues that held less than 2K, they could probably tour in the black. I don't think the members are getting "rock star" money, more like "Broadway pit orchestra" money.

 

It's when they get booked into those New World/Rosement venues that;s the problem. It's expensive as hell to do a venue like that.

[AnotherScott]

I don't think the members are getting "rock star" money, more like "Broadway pit orchestra" money.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if it takes them 6 months of touring now to make what they once made in a week. I wonder how much they do it because they just love to get out and play vs. genuine need for the income. They would certainly not be the first musicians to make a fortune and then see it quicky whittled away. Though I can't imagine that they don't get a nice ongoing income just from royalties, especially Howe and Squire.

[Al Coda]

more like "Broadway pit orchestra" money.

 

 

Always a good reason to stay @home IMO :-)

 

A.C.

[Cygnus64]

Always a good reason to stay @home IMO :-)

Pit money is still pretty good dough.

 

I wonder how much they do it because they just love to get out and play vs. genuine need for the income.

Probably a bit of both. Most musicians I know are the happiest when they are performing, even if they whine about it.

 

The drummer for TSO/Savatage told me that the only way he can really get a good night's sleep is to be on a bus. I think that attitude carries over to a lot of musicians, being on stage is being in your comfort zone. It's what you're supposed to do, regardless of how many people show or what the gig pays, it's your calling in life.

[Tonysounds]

No argument there.

[mate stubb]

I think we tend to have exaggerated ideas of what money musicians bring in, especially if they have been well known for decades. That's odd, because we know how crappy the money is on the local scene.

 

When Ritchie Hayward has to move to Canada just to get treatment because he can't afford medical insurance...

[ProfD]

A concert promoter should be aware of the drawing power of a band and book the venue accordingly. A 20k seater is ambitious.

 

While the members are still alive, they should consider a Yes Orchestra Tour consisting of every bandmember past and present playing their classic material from every album.

 

That tour would be a major sausage-fest but also generate a lot of money.

[Tonysounds]

A concert promoter should be aware of the drawing power of a band and book the venue accordingly. A 20k seater is ambitious.

 

While the members are still alive, they should consider a Yes Orchestra Tour consisting of every bandmember past and present playing their classic material from every album.

 

That tour would be a major sausage-fest but also generate a lot of money.

 

They did that already, it was called UNION. It was a sausage fest, complete with full on wankery. And it really made clear the difference between the 'old guard' and the 'young guns'. I loved the 90210 band, but hearing Trevor try to compete with Steve (at Howe's game), and hearing Tony Kaye do the same with Wakeman, and the most disturbing of all, Alan White go against Bill Bruford, it was painfully obvious who had more cards up their sleeves. (The old guard.)

 

And since Bruford has made it abundantly clear that we will no longer consider a Yes obligation under any circumstance, and Wakeman's self-imposed non-strenuous regimes, and Trevor's insistence that he will not do a Yes project either, I don't see this happening again.

 

Of course, Chris could hire more tribute guys.

 

http://www.macosxaudio.com/forums/download/file.php?avatar=4674_1263587685.gif

[mcgoo]

I loved the 90210 band, but hearing Trevor try to compete with Steve (at Howe's game), and hearing Tony Kaye do the same with Wakeman, and the most disturbing of all, Alan White go against Bill Bruford, it was painfully obvious who had more cards up their sleeves.

 

When I saw the Union tour, I loved it from the standpoint of seeing everyone up there, but the only pair of instrumentalists that I thought spent anytime in a room together discussing parts was White & Bruford. There were times when they simply played what each was used to doing (such as the 2nd 1/2 of "All Good People", which actually worked) and at other times, they took roles that complimented each other well. I thought it was a shame that the others all appeared to be "above" that.

[DanS]

Union tour ='ed

All I remembered was Wakeman's 27 keyboards.

The next night I saw the FIXX, and was more impressed.

[Tonysounds]

I think one of the reasons the Bruford/White combo worked so well is just that Bruford has the ability (and the inclination) to avoid repeating himself, and probably relished the fact that White, like Squire, likes the script, and generally prefers to stick to it, thereby giving Bruford a bed to play over. Its been years, but I seem to remember Bruford using an all Simmons kit loaded with all kinds of percussion (and non-percussion) samples.

 

And even though I love Tony Kayes playing, there wasnt enough of that great Hammond sound he used to get, and instead there was lots of bad ROMpler organ. But his keyboard stand did rotate.

 

---> Jordan and Mr. Gowan.

 

[ProfD]

They did that already, it was called UNION.

Exactly.

 

Otherwise, any configuration of Yes needs to be packaged with other bands in order to fill a theater.

 

First call should go to Dream Theater whenever they find another spitter, er, drummer.

[Bosendorphen]

I'm sure Frampton upped their numbers (as did the tour with Asia) and that's probably what they might do again when the new album comes out to promote it and perhaps increase their fanbase a bit. Smart marketing move IMHO. The other earlier tours on their own that I listed, looks like they were averaging around 2000 per venue and at least in my area were being booked into venues that held around that number.

 

Tony's right that if they are booking larger venues and barely filling just over half or whatever that's not the way to go.

 

Yeah, they don't have the huge following they used to but they are making a living at it and apparently having a great time doing it. There was much unhappiness and frustration with the last incarnation of the "classic" lineup from most accounts. If they've been playing around re-establishing themselves with the new boys and now are creating a new album I wish them well!

[Eric Iverson]

Re: the musical one-upmanship between the old guard and the new:

 

A classical example of unhealthy competition!

 

Healthy competition is a good thing, of course. But if the music is going to suffer because people are playing BS that the music doesn't call for to prove they're just as BADASS as someone else.... that doesn't make for "artistic excellence" as it were.

[Cygnus64]

Re: the musical one-upmanship between the old guard and the new:

 

A classical example of unhealthy competition!

 

Healthy competition is a good thing, of course. But if the music is going to suffer because people are playing BS that the music doesn't call for to prove they're just as BADASS as someone else.... that doesn't make for "artistic excellence" as it were.

 

It all depends on context. This is a group known for virtuosity, it's not like they are Shredding during a Doors concert.

 

Some Jazz and classical is similiar. Sometimes, being a badass is precisely how to serve the music.