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Dream Theater


Cygnus64

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Quintuple yep!

 

I'm with Bobadohshe: there's SOOOO much great music that's emotionally charged in every genre including prog rock.

 

Dream Theater in 25 years never even came close.

Ian Benhamou

Keyboards/Guitar/Vocals

 

[url:https://www.facebook.com/OfficialTheMusicalBox/]The Musical Box[/url]

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Guys and gals - can you not grasp the intellectual aspirations and artistic wonder that is the music of Dream Theatre? It's right up there with Beckett's "Waiting For Godot."

 

When you listen to each individual composition, the "suites", each album, each live gig, think of the flurry of notes and scales as a meditation on the complexities of life. We ask "why?" and hope that there's a point to it all and wonder if something good is coming along very soon that will make it all seem worthwhile.

 

And the good bits never come. That's the nihilistic beauty of Dream Theatre - the music never gets any good.

 

When you die, whoever has played the most notes wins. Talk to the guitar player in your band. He is wise and already knows this - and he is in the lead.

 

Peace and love.

I'm the piano player "off of" Borrowed Books.
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Of course, that would require Rudess to reinvent himself into Kevin Moore, since it was Moore who wrote all those instant classics ("Pull Me Under", "Space-Dye Vest", "Under a Glass Moon", etc)....

 

Pull Me Under is a great tune, and Jordan does a smoking version of Dance On A Volcano.

This is however, the extent of my knowledge of Dream Theater.

What we record in life, echoes in eternity.

 

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Quintuple yep!

 

I'm with Bobadohshe: there's SOOOO much great music that's emotionally charged in every genre including prog rock.

 

Dream Theater in 25 years never even came close.

 

I don't get how you don't hear great, emotionally charged music here and I do.

 

[video:youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6O4_C68PmFI

 

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Quintuple yep!

 

I'm with Bobadohshe: there's SOOOO much great music that's emotionally charged in every genre including prog rock.

 

Dream Theater in 25 years never even came close.

 

I don't get how you don't hear great, emotionally charged music here and I do.

 

 

 

1. I couldn't get past the pianny patch. Ouch.

 

2. It's the beauty of music, one man's treasure is another's trash. :thu: There are some bands and composers I don't care for, and I would be drawn and quartered if I mentioned them publicly. :laugh:

 

I don't know enough Dream Theater to make a judgement. Obviously skilled players. I suppose I would have to invest some time and hear the discs several times.

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I don't know enough Dream Theater to make a judgement. Obviously skilled players. I suppose I would have to invest some time and hear the discs several times.

 

At least you're admitting that much. The poster I was directly responding to apparently is intimately familiar with every scrap of music DT ever wrote, and was able to make the summation that they never once wrote any great music that was emotionally charged.

 

Frankly, I think he's talking out of his arse, to make such a bombastic statement, that he knows every song they released in 25 years, over the course of 10 full-length studio albums (including two double albums), was an emotionally bankrupt notefest.

 

1. I couldn't get past the pianny patch. Ouch.

 

I hear ya. It's a bad MP3 on top of it - I think the guy rendered it at 64k, which makes it super suck-tackular sounding. :freak:

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I don't know enough Dream Theater to make a judgement. Obviously skilled players. I suppose I would have to invest some time and hear the discs several times.

 

At least you're admitting that much. The poster I was directly responding to apparently is intimately familiar with every scrap of music DT ever wrote, and was able to make the summation that they never once wrote any great music that was emotionally charged.

 

Frankly, I think he's talking out of his arse, to make such a bombastic statement, that he knows every song they released in 25 years, over the course of 10 full-length studio albums (including two double albums), was an emotionally bankrupt notefest.

 

 

Again, that's the beauty of it. I don't think one needs to devour the whole catalog of an artist to determine if they speak to them or not. I can't stand Bob Seger. :laugh: I don't have anything against the fella, I'm sure he's a nice guy and he's had a great career. I don't own any of his albums, but I owned a radio in the 70s and 80s. His voice makes my brain bleed. :laugh: Maybe Mr. Seger wrote the greatest song ever and I missed it (Actually, I DO like the Old-Fashioned Rock n Roll song), but I think people can "get" if they relate to an artist or not from the overall vibe of just a few songs.

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I don't know enough Dream Theater to make a judgement. Obviously skilled players. I suppose I would have to invest some time and hear the discs several times.

 

At least you're admitting that much. The poster I was directly responding to apparently is intimately familiar with every scrap of music DT ever wrote, and was able to make the summation that they never once wrote any great music that was emotionally charged.

 

Frankly, I think he's talking out of his arse, to make such a bombastic statement, that he knows every song they released in 25 years, over the course of 10 full-length studio albums (including two double albums), was an emotionally bankrupt notefest.

 

 

Again, that's the beauty of it. I don't think one needs to devour the whole catalog of an artist to determine if they speak to them or not. I can't stand Bob Seger. :laugh: I don't have anything against the fella, I'm sure he's a nice guy and he's had a great career. I don't own any of his albums, but I owned a radio in the 70s and 80s. His voice makes my brain bleed. :laugh: Maybe Mr. Seger wrote the greatest song ever and I missed it (Actually, I DO like the Old-Fashioned Rock n Roll song), but I think people can "get" if they relate to an artist or not from the overall vibe of just a few songs.

 

I agree. And making a statement like "I don't get Dream Theater" is completely fair, and inarguable. Making a statement like "Dream Theater never once, in 25 years, came close to writing a great song that is emotionally charged" is not the same statement, hence I feel the need to defend the band, because they wrote many songs, in my recollection, that were really great, and quite emotionally charged. They wrote their fair share of dogs as well, and they wrote some songs that would have been really great if they had showed some restraint and truncated the excessively long instrumental portions, but to say they never wrote a single great song in their entire discography is a broad, sweeping statement that needs to be justified.

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I agree. And making a statement like "I don't get Dream Theater" is completely fair, and inarguable. Making a statement like "Dream Theater never once, in 25 years, came close to writing a great song that is emotionally charged" is not the same statement, hence I feel the need to defend the band, because they wrote many songs, in my recollection, that were really great, and quite emotionally charged. They wrote their fair share of dogs as well, and they wrote some songs that would have been really great if they had showed some restraint and truncated the excessively long instrumental portions, but to say they never wrote a single great song in their entire discography is a broad, sweeping statement that needs to be justified.

 

Spoken like a true fan. :thu: But that's not what Ian said, he said that they didn't come close to the prog bands he enjoys. The problem is that those classic prog bands set the bar so high. They also have a certain unique quality: Love em or hate em, guys like Jon Anderson and Geddy Lee have one of a kind voices. There are far better singers out there that would kill to have the same qualities.

 

Modern classical composers have the same problem. There are terrific composers out there, but when your tune is on the same program as Beethoven and Stravinsky, you're screwed. :laugh: When your prog band has to go up against "Trick of the Tail" and "Close to the Edge", ya got some work to do.

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But that's not what Ian said, he said that they didn't come close to the prog bands he enjoys.

 

Not really. He said:

 

I'm with Bobadohshe: there's SOOOO much great music that's emotionally charged in every genre including prog rock.

 

Dream Theater in 25 years never even came close.

 

Perhaps he needs to come back and clarify his statement, because that reads to me like "DT never came close to writing great music that's emotionally charged"

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Quintuple yep!

 

I'm with Bobadohshe: there's SOOOO much great music that's emotionally charged in every genre including prog rock.

 

Dream Theater in 25 years never even came close.

 

I don't get how you don't hear great, emotionally charged music here and I do.

 

[video:youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6O4_C68PmFI

 

All I got out of that was ZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzz.... sorry. Doesn't do anything for me.

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Love em or hate em, guys like Jon Anderson and Geddy Lee have one of a kind voices.

 

In a world of recordings I'm surprised how often I have to see a live performance before I really get what they're doing. Michael Hedges playing three simultaneous guitar parts, Jon Anderson singing in his natural voice, Carmen on stage at the Met, Bootsie's Rubber Band rockin' the house.

 

Anybody out there who has been to a Dream Theatre concert and still didn't dig it?

 

 

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Quintuple yep!

 

I'm with Bobadohshe: there's SOOOO much great music that's emotionally charged in every genre including prog rock.

 

Dream Theater in 25 years never even came close.

 

I don't get how you don't hear great, emotionally charged music here and I do.

 

]

 

I do not like this. At all. Not even a little bit.

That said - I am glad that it exists to give you and others that enjoy it pleasure, and I completely respect your taste.

 

But OF COURSE there is stuff you love that others don't like - and not even because they don't "get it". No music speaks to everyone, nor should it. I am quite sure there is plenty of music I love that you wouldn't care for.

 

 

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Ive got a bunch of their albums, Ive got a few of their dvds, Ive seen them with Derek Sherinian and with Jordan Rudess, I liked the early stuff with Kevin Moore, and I really liked Falling Into Infinity. I appreciate that these guys just went full on gold medal Olympiad in their studies and practice routines and musical development, its everything I always respected in prog rockers. But after Infinity, their albums are completely forgettable, no hooks, nothing I can hum or come back to in my mind. I walked out of both of their shows early. I thought Derek was a relentless wanker poseur live, and while Rudess was more restrained in the showman department, they both just completely wore me down, with Yngwie-like displays of note-itude with no connection toanything really. It sounds like manic assembly line music to me, the worst math-rock has to offer. Rush: great technicians, and better composers (Ill hesitate to call them songwriters for this argument), capable of writing music that really sticks with you. Yes: same. ELP, same; U.K.: great technicians, comparable composers. In theory, DT should be the bomb: as great as their predecessors were/are, the DT guys can play rings around them, but they needed to spend more time in Composition and Music Appreciation classes, because it seems like they really missed some important lessons. (I feel the same way about The Flower Kings: at first blush, I liked them, and the more I heard them, the less I liked them, especially live.) I WANT to like them. I dont want to work to like them.

 

I appreciate their abilities. They just dont communicateat least to me.

 

Hitting "Play" does NOT constitute live performance. -Me.
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Anybody out there who has been to a Dream Theatre concert and still didn't dig it?

 

 

Yes. I walked out early both times (once on Derek Sherinian, the other on the last tour with Jordan and his "HAND" stand). I thought it would be the same thing: this is the kind of thing that doesnt work for me in a recorded environment, but itll probably blow my $hit away live. Nope. If anything, it was even more self-indulgent, narcissistic, wankeryby everyone. And honestly, watching Portnoy spit massive loogies that can be seen from 70 rows back is no treat. And he has done that every time Ive seen him (both times with DT, and a few months back with Transatlantic).

 

No, seeing them live made me dislike them more, when it should have had the opposite effect.

 

Hitting "Play" does NOT constitute live performance. -Me.
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But ultimately who gives a shit, and if he was being real and raw, then I respect it. But real and raw in a 'look at me' kind of way undermines the whole thing.

 

On some level, there is no performance without "look at me". Here we are on stage, with colored lights on us, putting on a show. It just happens that JR has a lot of people who actually do want to look at him, for whom this video is a generous offering, an opportunity to hear something intimate from a musician they greatly admire.

 

"Le Badass" is his brand, and he has the chops to pull it off. I don't connect deeply with that music, but I admire it. It's definitely a more admirable brand than "Le Heartthrob" or "La Teenage Sexpot".

 

One more positive thing to say about JR: he is a seriously good role model for a couple of my students who are DT fans, both geeky preteen boys. They can be inspired by someone who achieved success through disciplined practice and virtuosity. Seriously, I get to say things like "Jordan Rudess can play this scale in his sleep- you'd better get busy". OR "yeah, that's ok if you want to play like Justin Timberlake or something, but you need to practice more if you want to play like Jordan Rudess." :D Thank you JR :D

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Ive got a bunch of their albums, Ive got a few of their dvds, Ive seen them with Derek Sherinian and with Jordan Rudess, I liked the early stuff with Kevin Moore, and I really liked Falling Into Infinity. I appreciate that these guys just went full on gold medal Olympiad in their studies and practice routines and musical development, its everything I always respected in prog rockers. But after Infinity, their albums are completely forgettable...

 

I agree that Images, Awake, and Infinity were their best albums, and nothing they've done since has really approached that level of artistry - again, as I said earlier, Kevin Moore was the best songwriter the band ever had, and his absence really hurt them.

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I do not like this. At all. Not even a little bit.

That said - I am glad that it exists to give you and others that enjoy it pleasure, and I completely respect your taste.

 

But OF COURSE there is stuff you love that others don't like - and not even because they don't "get it". No music speaks to everyone, nor should it. I am quite sure there is plenty of music I love that you wouldn't care for.

 

 

That's cool, I respect your tastes. I just couldn't keep silent when the broad brushes came out. I'm not trying to be a DT apologist here, I just felt compelled to speak when someone declared their entire catalog to be devoid of emotion.

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And honestly, watching Portnoy spit massive loogies that can be seen from 70 rows back is no treat.

 

Like I said, the stage will be dry now.

Can you see his crew after the show, winding up all the cables, avoiding all the goober stalagtites?

First time I saw him do it (on DVD), I said to meself 'what the phoque was that?'

What we record in life, echoes in eternity.

 

MOXF8, Electro 6D, XK1c, Motif XSr, PEKPER, Voyager, Univox MiniKorg.

https://www.abandoned-film.com

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but they needed to spend more time in Composition and Music Appreciation classes, because it seems like they really missed some important lessons.

 

I appreciate their abilities. They just dont communicateat least to me.

 

xactly.

 

I've walked out of a few of their shows. I always gave them a shot. My friends used to scritch their heads when I raved about King Crimson or ELP or FZ.

 

I never liked the singer. I never liked the posing. My hands hurt when I watched Myung play bass. It was almost unneccessary. It catered to a generation of speed & gymnastics vs musicality. It's as if Metal wasn't satisfied with old Sabbath and decided to put on Wakeman's cape for a go. It morphed into the annoying little brother of prog rock.

 

 

Music is the language of emotion. I don't get what they are trying to convey to me as a listener.

 

My greatest music lesson: Les hollander says to me as a budding bassist, "You've got great chops and can play whatever I throw at you at twice the speed as well as adding a slurry of fill-notes to call it your own, but can you, for this session, play me 1 perfect note rather than a thousand?!?!?"

 

I hope Jordan et al read this stuff. The worst criticism a musician can get from his peers/fans is nothing but good criticism.

 

Maybe Dream Theater busting-up is the best thing to happen to these guys.

 

 

 

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Judging from Portnoys blog, theyre not busting up: theyre going on without HIM. (which sort of renders his signature as ex-fearless leader hollow, eh?) And since he referred to personal relationships with the band, it appears there might not be much love lost from their end. Who knows.

 

If I were them, Id call Terry Bozzio.Id go see that, and give them one more shot with my CD allowance.

 

 

Hitting "Play" does NOT constitute live performance. -Me.
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James is a great singer, it was just unfortunate that he had food poisoning years and years back which seem to have completely fucked up his voice. He is getting better though and absolutely killed when I saw them live some 3 years ago.
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James is a great singer, it was just unfortunate that he had food poisoning years and years back which seem to have completely fucked up his voice. He is getting better though and absolutely killed when I saw them live some 3 years ago.

 

It took him a long time to recover from that, but he is finally reaching Images form.

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Anybody out there who has been to a Dream Theatre concert and still didn't dig it?

 

Way back in '89 I went to a Marillion show and it turn out Dream Theater was the opening act. I've never heard of them at the time. I thought they were good players, but self-indulgent music.

 

I remember the lead singer came out for the opening song and shouted to the crowd "How's everyone in Providence doing tonight?"

 

The concert was in Bay Shore, NY.

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