Korg SV-1: How to remove noise from "Tine/Amp" Rhodes?

[denistu]

Hi guys,

 

Did anybody figure out how to remove the noise from the "Tine/Amp" Rodes (Epiano1 Var1) from SV-1?

The noise disappears when I turn OFF the Amp Model but you don't get the same sound. The sound without the Amp is darker, and even with the EQ I couldn't get back the original crispiness.

 

I have tried to use the SV1 Editor but I couldn't do anything with the RX Noise/Layer Tools. The tool doesn't have any effect on the noise. I am talking about the hissing noise that you get when you depress a key. It is particularly evident if you use the headphones.

 

Thanks,

Denis

 

 

 

[Gary75]

Never really had a chance to go into the editor much. Isn't the hiss just part of the noise of a valve amp albeit simulated your referring to? There was a massive thread on getting it to sound darker, which is acheived by tuning the amp sim off. I never switch it on myself on the Rhodes sound.

[denistu]

Thanks b3boy,

 

Yep, the noise comes from the valve amp.

I like the crispiness of the Rhodes sound when the amp is on, but then the noise is there too. :-(

 

That's ok when I play live but if I want to record something in a studio, the noise could be quite annoying. Then again, if you turn the amp off, the noise is gone but the sound is not the same. :-)

 

Anybody from KORG here to help us solve this problem?

 

Thanks,

Denis

[MoodyBluesKeys]

jerrythek from Korg checks this forum from time to time.

 

[Gary75]

I know this probably isn't the best solution, but if your recording into a DAW there are far better amp sims than the one on the SV-1 Scarbee VKFX is good, even something like guitar rig or amplitube. I would have thought you would be able to turn the amp noise down, maybe. But again, it's all inherent noise of a valve guitar amp turned up.

[JeffLearman]

I haven't heard the SV-1 other than in demos, but I'll hazard a guess as to the root of the problem, since I faced it for decades and only solved it using specific methods when I created my jRhodes soundfont (free).

 

The root of the problem is that to get that crisp sound, you have to boost the highs (I forget the precise frequencies, but I'll guess in the 4-8K range), and there's a LOT of white noise in the Rhodes in those frequency ranges, a background hiss. I believe I measured that hiss at about -40dB from the peak.

 

For a real Rhodes, it's a nightmare unless you use a noise gate, and those have their problems too.

 

I recorded my soundfont with those highs boosted and the fundamentals cut, because that's the sound I wanted.

 

I sampled the noise between notes, and used a de-noising filter to specifically remove that hiss in the sample set prior to other processing. The great news is that it didn't throw the baby out with the bathwater, and the samples retained their sweet crispness -- or at least, enough of it. So I now have a Rhodes sound that is in several ways *better* than the original. (The other way it's better is that, on the stereo set, artifacts I disliked about postprocessors were avoided by baking the effect into each sample. And of course, it's infinitely lighter!)

 

So, it's possible that Korg did not filter out the background noise in their samples, and the noise is not from the amp sim but from the Rhodes itself. (OK, it's also possible that the amp sim is noisy. Or both!)

[denistu]

Thanks learjeff,

 

I think in this case the noise comes from the Amp simulation becasue if I stay on the same sound (same sample), and turn off the Amp Mode, the noise disapears. This tells me that the raw sample is "clean" but the tube activation brings the noise in.

 

Denis

 

 

[JeffLearman]

Sorry, but that doesn't follow. The same happens with a real Rhodes if you don't pump it through filters that bump the region in question. That is, run it flat -- noise isn't noticeable. Bump the highs, and bingo: you hear it.

 

It's also true about the buzz in an electric guitar. Play it clean into a mixer, sounds fine. Plug it into a high gain amp cranked up, and you hear the buzz super loud. This is exacerbated by the amp's natural compression.

 

These things are just as true for sims as for real gear. The problem is inherent, not just one of good vs. bad.

 

 

[Nillerbabs]

I suspect Learjeff is right. The same happens with the Nord rhodes samples.

[jerrythek]

You've started to go in the right direction by opening the Editor, but you're not going to make any changes in the hiss by playing with the RX Noise/Layer control. You want to work with the Amp Sim controls themselves. Carefully experiment with the Pre Volume and Amp Volume to get the tonality you want, and use the Power Attenuator, Prog Level and the Noise Reduction circuit in the Speaker Sim section to accommodate the amount of gain you created from the Amp Sim controls.

 

Read up about them in the Editor Manual, Pages 34-42.

 

This works like a real guitar amp, and I have never heard a tube-based guitar amp that doesn't product some level of noise. As digital keyboardists we are not presented with this situation, so we get used to cleanliness. But digital-simulated distortion doesn't sound like the "real deal". So there will be some balance, or trade-off you'll have to deal with to get this authentic tube-based sound.

 

If you can't accept a little authentic hiss then you could consider the above suggestion, and get your amp simulation through external effects/plug-ins. But experiment and get to know the Amp Sim section using the Editor - it's quite powerful, being based on our Vox ToneLab range of products.

 

I hope this helps.

 

Jerry

Korg Guy

 

 

[denistu]

Thanks jerrythek!

It makes more sense now. :-)

Cheers,

Denis