CP1, SV-1, S70xs, RD-700gx auditionned.

[Ian Benhamou]

I just got back from my local music store to try out a handful of the new selection of boards, and was I ever disappointed.

 

After all the hoopla made about the CP-1 around here, I was expecting to be blown away by it's piano sound, action and playability. I wasn't. Okay, there was a problem at first where the velocity curve was set to a constant value. After searching through a few menus to find the paramater and adjust back to "normal" I started playing only to have 1/3 of all the notes I played not sound. Why? Because now the action was not sensitive enough. So I adjusted the velocity again, now it was too sensitive. I finally gave up on the thing. Not a fair audition, because I'm positive that there was something wrong with the settings, it must be able to play more naturally than that. Either way, I found the action a little too light for my tastes. For an instrument that's aimed at serious piano playing, I expect more resistance than than.

 

I also tried out the SV-1, and while the action wasn't bad, I wasn't blown away by it's sounds. The rhodes sample is very nice, but the amp sims I find are too harsh in their overdrives. There was no way to dial in a smooth subtle crunch when digging in while getting a cleaner sound when playing more lightly, something I'm able to achieve on my PC3.

 

The S70xs was also a disappointment. What's up with that tiny screen? And once again, Yamaha's confusing user interface make it impossible to figure out how to navigate. Obviously, if I owned one I would RTFM, but still, IMO too many buttons on their boards. And what up with all the wasted space? The mod/pitch wheel area is ridiculously huge. And the sound library doesn't come near the realism of my PC3.

 

RD-700GX, not really new, but I went back to it to see if I was still impressed by it. And while I noticed more things about the piano sound that I didn't like, I still think this is the best of the stage piano selection out there. That action and ivory textured keys is a real joy to play. And of the bunch, this is the only board with adequate midi controller capabilities. It also has the best UI, imo. Only problem is the acoustic pianos are the only really usable sounds on that thing. Some of the rhodes are okay, the rest is pretty much unusable.

 

Sorry for the rant, I guess, I'm just at a point where I'm REALLY satisfied with the sound of my rig, and this visit to the store only reconfirmed that I don't need an upgrade.

[MonksDream]

I understand your frustration, Ian. Picking a DP is really about choosing the least offensive alternative. Pianists are the only musicians who routinely play a facsimile of their instrument rather than the real thing.

[Moon Zero Two]

I feel about the same as you on most points.

 

I loved the RD700GX action and thought the main piano was cool but none of the other sounds did it for me at all.

 

The more boards I check out the more I realize how good I have it w my home setup: a VMK176/K2600RS with hard drive/Receptor.

 

I really like the VMK action and love the Rhodes on the K as well as Scarbee, Ivory and LL3 on the Receptor (I like Lounge Lizard)

 

And to top it off I have a Motif XS7 next to it - so I got it good and that aint bad - isn't that a song.

[timwat]

+1. The best digital piano is an acoustic grand. Sort of defeats the porpoise.

[Dana.]

[toad]

Yeah, and I'm not that impressed with my SV-1 either,the action feels worn-out like a rhodes that needs re-building or something.

You nailed it about the harsh distortion too, my sound man was think'in I was clippin' out a transitor amp. The only reason I like it is cause' of the 73 keys. Anybody know, is this the only 73 key weighted board around?

[burningbusch]

Sort of defeats the porpoise.

 

Yeah, the smart money is on the killer whale!

 

Busch.

[Peakly]

Picking a DP is really about choosing the least offensive alternative. Pianists are the only musicians who routinely play a facsimile of their instrument rather than the real thing.

 

I'm in the frustrated pianist's camp too. I'm looking to upgrade my digital stage piano, and I was hoping to try a Yamaha CP-5. But I was told today that now the release date has been pushed back to late May or early June at the soonest, and I don't want to wait that long.

 

 

There was no way to dial in a smooth subtle crunch when digging in while getting a cleaner sound when playing more lightly, something I'm able to achieve on my PC3.

 

I haven't tried this Kurzweil. Have you found it to be superior to all the other digital "stage pianos?" Better than a CP-300?

 

Mychal

[Sven Golly]

I haven't tried this Kurzweil. Have you found it to be superior to all the other digital "stage pianos?" Better than a CP-300?

 

As a PC3 owner, I am comfortable saying that it's not superior to the CP-300. Don't get me wrong, it's a fantastic board, but it doesn't stand up against a dedicated digital piano like the CP series. Mostly because it's not a dedicated stage piano, it's a full-range performance keyboard.

 

Apples to apples, and all that.

 

[Ian Benhamou]

I haven't tried this Kurzweil. Have you found it to be superior to all the other digital "stage pianos?" Better than a CP-300?

 

As a PC3 owner, I am comfortable saying that it's not superior to the CP-300. Don't get me wrong, it's a fantastic board, but it doesn't stand up against a dedicated digital piano like the CP series. Mostly because it's not a dedicated stage piano, it's a full-range performance keyboard.

 

Apples to apples, and all that.

 

What he said.

[Peakly]

As a PC3 owner, I am comfortable saying that it's not superior to the CP-300. Don't get me wrong, it's a fantastic board, but it doesn't stand up against a dedicated digital piano like the CP series.

 

Thanks for the replies. I appreciate the help! I'm thinking the CP-300 is probably going to be the best bet for me, because of the action, piano and Rhodes sounds, the additional sounds, and its flexibility as a controller. I also like the flat top that I could set another keyboard on.

 

I'm trying to adjust to the fact that I'm not going to be able to AB it with the CP5 for at least 3 more months. From what I've read and heard, the CP1 and CP5 are a step up from the 300 in terms of sound and action. But from what Ian said, the action might not necessarily be an improvement over the 300.

 

Does anyone have an opinion as to the quality of the additional sounds in the 300, like the pads, synths, strings, etc? Are they comparable to the PC3? I've messed around with the CP-300 in the stores a few times with headphones, but haven't taken one home yet to really try it out.

 

Mychal

 

 

[Aidan]

Mychal, I don't think the other sounds in the CP300 are comparable with even the CP1/5, let alone the Kurzweil across the board. Probably most comparable to those on the RD700GX, to be honest. Utilitarian is the word that springs to mind.

 

Ian, I hear what you're saying about the current choices. Which is why my current ideal rig is what I have - RD700GX piano, plus the better extended sound palette of the Motif XS rack. I suspect the RD's piano sounds can be improved further, which is why the Supernatural expansion still has some interest for me.

 

Had a rack version of the Kurzweil been available, I would probably have bought that over the Motif, for its overall much better realism, especially string sounds. I do dig the Motif's guitars, though, especially the acoustics, and the winds are very good too.

 

Your comments re: the lightness of the CP1's action doesn't surprise me, after learning that the action was to be balanced rather than graded. I suspect that the lighter bottom end is possibly having the psychological effect of making the whole thing appear lighter.

 

And I still don't get the single control wheel.

[Peakly]

Mychal, I don't think the other sounds in the CP300 are comparable with even the CP1/5, let alone the Kurzweil across the board. Probably most comparable to those on the RD700GX, to be honest. Utilitarian is the word that springs to mind.

 

Thanks for that. It's kind of what I thought, based on using headphones in the store.

 

Mychal

 

 

[Gary75]

Do not use the amp sim on the SV-1 until they resolve the problem. Turning it off makes the Rhodes sound how it should.

[denistu]

Hey B3boy,

 

Would you mind elaborating on the amp sim problem with SV-1?

 

Was this acknowledged by KORG?

 

Are they preparing the fix?

 

Thanks!

Denis

[MoodyBluesKeys]

Mychal, I don't think the other sounds in the CP300 are comparable with even the CP1/5, let alone the Kurzweil across the board.... Had a rack version of the Kurzweil been available, I would probably have bought that over the Motif, for its overall much better realism, especially string sounds.

 

Even in my small town, the CP300 was available (plus the college had one), and I played one considerably before getting the PC3X. It really IS a Stage Piano - two problems with the added pads, strings, etc - first is the necessary menuing just to get to them, they are not easily accessible in live performance, and second - to me they sounded like the typical General MIDI sound bank.

 

Aidan - if you still might be interested in a Kurzweil rack, see the following link - Kurzweil is asking for feedback through their distributor system on creation of a PC3K rack. http://community.sonikmatter.com/forums/index.php?/topic/45451-who-really-really-wants-a-pc3k-rack/

[jerrythek]

Hey B3boy,

 

Would you mind elaborating on the amp sim problem with SV-1?

 

Was this acknowledged by KORG?

 

Are they preparing the fix?

 

Thanks!

Denis

 

This is not a fair or accurate discussion of the amp sims on the SV-1. To really take control of them and shape them to your liking you must use the Editor. The front panel controls do not even begin to expose the sound shaping possible in the engine. To be fair, I could make the same statement for all the effects as well - there's a LOT more available "under the hood". But especially for the amp sims, changing the controls on the front panel really doesn't work for reshaping the sound. Use/try the Editor.

 

regards,

 

Jerry

Korg Guy

[toad]

10-4 on the SV-1 editor,I'm gonna get to it this week before my sat. gig.

[DanS]

 

Sorry for the rant, I guess, I'm just at a point where I'm REALLY satisfied with the sound of my rig, and this visit to the store only reconfirmed that I don't need an upgrade.

 

You neglected to include the all important "IMO"

[ProfD]

Sorry for the rant, I guess, I'm just at a point where I'm REALLY satisfied with the sound of my rig, and this visit to the store only reconfirmed that I don't need an upgrade.

No apology required. It helps to confirm the old rig still travels well.

[Moon Zero Two]

And I still don't get the single control wheel.

 

+10

 

The CP300 sounded best of the bunch on my last trip to the local retailer - I liked the Rhodes sound too. For at home it could do the trick - there are several good YouTube vids of it in action - there is one of a guy doing a nice version of Moaning. Don't remember his name so if he is here sorry.

 

The RD700GX was connected to some horrible speaker on the floor - I don't get that - a while back I played one through little Yamaha powered speakers in Guitar Center and in stereo what a difference.

 

Oh well back to work.

 

 

[Ian Benhamou]

Yeah the single control wheel blows my mind, especially since, if you're only going to put one wheel on a stage piano, why wouldn't be the mod wheel?

 

The mod wheel is much more useful in this context. You could use it to control the volume of a pad layer, reverb level, tremolo amount on the EP's, distortion, etc.

 

The pitch wheel is only really used on synth leads which the CP-1 has none.

[Dana.]

Complaining about the single wheel is:

 

a)

 

b)

 

c)

 

d) all of the above

 

If you picked d), you are correct.

[Ian Benhamou]

Complaining about the single wheel is:

 

a)

 

b)

 

c)

 

d) all of the above

 

If you picked d), you are correct.

 

Yeah, very funny, but still a horrible design choice from Yamaha as far as I'm concerned. But not the reason I wasn't impressed by the CP-1. That had everything to with the sound and feel.

[burningbusch]

Yeah the single control wheel blows my mind, especially since, if you're only going to put one wheel on a stage piano, why wouldn't be the mod wheel?

 

The mod wheel is much more useful in this context. You could use it to control the volume of a pad layer, reverb level, tremolo amount on the EP's, distortion, etc.

 

The pitch wheel is only really used on synth leads which the CP-1 has none.

 

The things you mentioned can be controlled by any of the six encoders. If you don't like how they're assigned in a given preset, re-assigning is about as simple as can be. You press the ASSIGN button. The display flashes asking which category you'd like assigned (piano, preamp, mod effect, etc). You are then asked which specific parameter you want to control (e.g. speed, phase, depth) and finally which encoder you want to assign the function to. It takes all of five seconds.

 

Additionally, if you just want to see the current value of any parameter assigned to one of the encoders you can just press down on it and the value will be shown. The function assigned to each encoder as well as which voice affected is displayed when you call up a preset.

 

The pitch bend wheel can be reassigned to mod control. For example it can be used to control WAH when the mod effect is set to pedal wah.

 

The CP-1 is a four zone master controller. Pitch bend is obviously useful when controlling external synths. PB can be set on/off for each zone.

 

Busch.

[Dana.]

"Not a fair audition, because I'm positive that there was something wrong with the settings..."

 

[bhodaway10]

The CP300 is a nice stage piano but too darn heavy for my taste. It weighs 75 lbs. I had a P250 which also weighs 75 lbs and thought I wouldn't mind the schlep. That lasted about 3 years and then I got sick of moving it. Also, I didn't enjoy it's ep's or clav's.

 

I always thought the PC3x's action was light for a stage piano although the same could be said for the Nord Stage's. I played the CP1 at NAMM and felt that it wasn't the heaviest action but it was still heavier than the PC3x or the Stage.

 

The RD700gx has a nice weighted action for a stage piano but at 55 lbs it's one heavy brute - I guess that's why Adan bought the SV-1 for lighter gigs.

 

I actually liked both the Cp1 and the SV-1. I think it's time for another test drive.

 

 

 

 

[Ian Benhamou]

"Not a fair audition, because I'm positive that there was something wrong with the settings..."

 

 

Yes, that is what I said. So in all fairness, I will go try it out again. I do keep an open mind about these sorts of things.

 

I could say right away though that the action felt way too light for my tastes. Even my PC3x, which has more of a compromise action where it's heavy but the springs release the keys very quickly to be able to play fast synth/organ licks, felt heavier.

 

The bottom line for me is, an instrument has to speak to me from the minute I lay my hands on it. Somehow, you just know instantly if it's the right instrument for you. And I didn't get that from the CP-1. But maybe with the right tweaks on the velocity curves....

 

The RD-700gx on the other hand I connected with on the first try.

 

Different strokes for different folks I guess.

[Fusker]

Bingo on the weight!

 

The CP300 is a nice stage piano but too darn heavy for my taste. It weighs 75 lbs. I had a P250 which also weighs 75 lbs and thought I wouldn't mind the schlep. That lasted about 3 years and then I got sick of moving it. Also, I didn't enjoy it's ep's or clav's.

 

I always thought the PC3x's action was light for a stage piano although the same could be said for the Nord Stage's. I played the CP1 at NAMM and felt that it wasn't the heaviest action but it was still heavier than the PC3x or the Stage.

 

The RD700gx has a nice weighted action for a stage piano but at 55 lbs it's one heavy brute - I guess that's why Adan bought the SV-1 for lighter gigs.

 

I actually liked both the Cp1 and the SV-1. I think it's time for another test drive.

 

 

 

[wd8dky]

Complaining about the single wheel is:

 

a)

 

b)

 

c)

 

d) all of the above

 

If you picked d), you are correct.

 

Complaining about someone complaining is equally a waste of internet bandwidth, dude.