reidmc Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 There have been several variations on this question, including an earlier one of mine, but I wanted to try this one again. . . All my sounds are in a rack module or a Sonic Cell, and I want a single keyboard to cover everything I do, which is 60% acoustic piano; 30% organ(mainly texture. . .some soloing); 10% EP. I want to cut significant weight from an 88-key weighted controller, so what 61-76 key controller or digital keyboard offers enough "piano-feel" to the player, but is light enough to get around on some organ solos? Again, I don't need any board sounds. Thanks! "The Doomer allows the player to do things beyond which are possible without the accessory." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Maximus_ Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 PC3?.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanker. Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 VMK-176 plus. Have to admit, I didn't like the action, but lots of folks do. A ROMpler is just a polyphonic turntable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matted stump Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 what 61-76 key controller or digital keyboard offers enough "piano-feel" to the player, but is light enough to get around on some organ solos? Holy Grail, seek you. http://saysomethingfunny.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/yoda.jpg Moe --- "I keep wanting to like it's sound, but every demo seems to demonstrate that it has the earth-shaking punch and peerless sonics of the Roland Gaia. " - Tusker http://www.hotrodmotm.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VegasGT3 Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 i agree with PC3 or Nord Stage EX 76 or 73. Kurzweil PC3x, Nord Electro 3, Nord C-1, Casio Privia PX-3, Yamaha DX-7, Korg Polysix, Moog Taurus 3, Yamaha Motif XS (rack),Ventilator, QSC K12, K10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoodyBluesKeys Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 My PC3 would come the closest - the action is a bit heavy for organ, but good enough for piano. 61-key - my 2661 is fine for organ, but not so much for piano (completely synth action - not weighted at all). Other advantage of PC3 is lots of very programmable sliders and switches for MIDI control of the external stuff. Howard Grand|Hamm SK1-73|Kurz PC2|PC2X|PC3|PC3X|PC361; QSC K10's HP DAW|Epi Les Paul & LP 5-str bass|iPad mini2 "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dana. Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 Come on guys, why are you suggesting expensive boards that would be overkill when the OP is saying he wants a controller with no sounds? +1 on the Studiologic VMK-176 Plus (or the 161). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobadohshe Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 Come on guys, why are you suggesting expensive boards that would be overkill when the OP is saying he wants a controller with no sounds? +1 on the Studiologic VMK-176 Plus (or the 161). people speaking from experience I would guess. Kawai C-60 Grand Piano : Hammond A-100 : Hammond SK2 : Yamaha CP4 : Yamaha Montage 7 : Moog Sub 37 My latest album: Funky organ, huge horn section https://bobbycressey.bandcamp.com/album/cali-native Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedKey Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 +1 for the PC3 or Nord Stage EX 76 or 73 You wouldn't need to bring the rack. I know you don't want "board sounds" but if the board has better sounds (Piano, Organ, EP) than the rack piece or Sonic Cell, Why not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill H. Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 There's an older Fatar 76 board - the SL-760 - that has a pretty good compromise action on it. It doesn't feel like a synth action, nor a full hammer action either. You might stumble on one used but they are pretty rare. I kinda wish that I'd bought the one that came up locally a couple of years ago. Reasonable used price: $200-250. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meisenhower Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 As you know, the rub is what is good for piano isn't good for organ and synth. Only YOU will be able to tell which one has enough compromise in each area to be livable for you. I also agree with D-Bon on the suggestions for Nord Stages or PC3's too, as while they may offer the best "compromise" for the situation, they are likely way outside of what the OP wants to spend budget wise, and also he specifically said he doesn't want any "board sounds." Sometimes we just have to answer the question that is being asked, right? I'd just go out and play as many controllers as you can and one will feel "right" for what you're doing. Yamaha C7 Grand, My Hammonds: '57 B3, '54 C2, '42 BC, '40 D, '05 XK3 Pro System, Kawai MP9000, Fender Rhodes Mk I 73, Yamaha CP33, Motif ES6, Nord Electro 2, Minimoog Voyager & Model D, Korg MS10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dana. Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 Come on guys, why are you suggesting expensive boards that would be overkill when the OP is saying he wants a controller with no sounds? +1 on the Studiologic VMK-176 Plus (or the 161). people speaking from experience I would guess. Experience is certainly valuable, but it doesn't necessarily provide the most sensible answer. Suggesting a Stage or PC3 in this instance is akin to suggesting someone buy a complete power tool set to hang a framed photo when a hammer and nail will do the job just fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allan_evett Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 Come on guys, why are you suggesting expensive boards that would be overkill when the OP is saying he wants a controller with no sounds? +1 on the Studiologic VMK-176 Plus (or the 161). people speaking from experience I would guess. Experience is certainly valuable, but it doesn't necessarily provide the most sensible answer. Suggesting a Stage or PC3 in this instance is akin to suggesting someone buy a complete power tool set to hang a framed photo when a hammer and nail will do the job just fine. I agree, D-Bon, that a Stage, or PC3 is a 'complete power tool set'; and, from the standpoint of what the OP needs, neither is the most practical choice. He's looking for a 61-76 key controller that offers more than a synth action, but is lighter than fully weighted. Therein lies the problem: there is only one brand, Studiologic, that offers those options. So the choices are a VMK 176 plus, or VMK 161 plus. And it has been recommended previously on this forum that those considering one of these play the keyboard first - due to individual tastes when it comes to keyboard feel, plus the fact that the VMK's only have one velocity setting. From my experience with owning Fatar/Studiologic, there has only been one instance when I was able to get 'hands on' time at a dealer with one of these keyboards; and that was back in 1992. Every time since, when I have looked into purchasing a Studiologic piece of gear, I've had two choices: either 'special order' the item from a local dealer, or mail order it from a distant dealer's stock. Granted, there are still a few dealers that do have Studiologic on the floor, but it's a crapshoot as to whether or not the OP lives anywhere near one of them. So we're stuck with one brand of controller, one velocity curve, and it's usually a mail order item. What I think we're seeing here - with PC3's and Stages being recommended - is indicative of our overall frustration with the limits of the current controller market. As Moe pointed out: "Holy Grail, seek you"; indeed... Kanker's right: VMK 176 plus. If strictly controller, no sounds, is it; then this is the only solution. Hopefully the OP will like the keyboard feel and velocity. As I too had been seeking the 'Holy Grail' in this rather whacked controller market, I considered the VMK 176; then decided not to take a chance. So I went with a PC3, and sold my XK-1 to help fund that. At least I now have a controller that gives me realistic options, and I can set it up to run VB-3. Guess I'm just another one of those "people speaking from experience I would guess". (Thanks Bobby). I understand the hammer and nail analogy, too. It's just that, in this situation, our industry needs to offer more choices of hammers, and a variety of nails - especially to do a job that has variables; just like there's a variety of picture frames, and mounting surfaces... 'Someday, we'll look back on these days and laugh; likely a maniacal laugh from our padded cells, but a laugh nonetheless' - Mr. Boffo. We need a barfing cat emoticon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dana. Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 I should add that the VMK series is really meant for controlling software and DAWs, not a rack for live use, which is why they have only one velocity curve. Studiologic figures you'll set the velocity via the software you're using. I think the MIDI functionality may also be limited. Carlo (aka Marino) and Jamey Was Right both own VMK-176s and could confirm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allan_evett Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 I should add that the VMK series is really meant for controlling software and DAWs, not a rack for live use, which is why they have only one velocity curve. Studiologic figures you'll set the velocity via the software you're using.... That's right on. And there are many software and DAW controllers in the market. What many of us are wishing for is a MIDI keyboard controller with the features of those units, plus the depth and subtleties of controllers from years back that were designed for MIDI module control, etc. I think a killer combination would be an Edirol PCR-800 & Roland A-70; then put a PC3 or PC3X keybed in it for the 76 or 88 key models. I'd do a 61 key version as well, and stick the original A-70 keybed in that. Hey, as long we're dreaming, why not have the 76 be offered in two flavors instead: fully weighted, and 'original' - the A-70 keybed, which was the best synth action keybed created, IMO. Then we'd have true, multi-use controllers: equally at home in the studio, and live. 'Someday, we'll look back on these days and laugh; likely a maniacal laugh from our padded cells, but a laugh nonetheless' - Mr. Boffo. We need a barfing cat emoticon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reidmc Posted February 11, 2010 Author Share Posted February 11, 2010 thanks for all the posts. . . I've been looking for a VMK-161 (0r 176) plus to try with no luck. I did stop into a Guitar Center and found the actions on both the Korg SV-1 and Yamaha MM8 to be close to what I want. "Springy" enough for organ, but enough resistance and keybed depth for piano. Still on the hunt though. . . btw. . .I have a studiologic sl-880, which I like for piano, but is a little too clunky for organ. Plus, I need to lose some size and weight. (SL-880 is 45 ilbs.). "The Doomer allows the player to do things beyond which are possible without the accessory." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adan Posted February 11, 2010 Share Posted February 11, 2010 I own both a VMK 161 plus and a VMK 176 plus. When they first came out, I loved the idea of the 61, so I got it, and really loved the action (though the one velocity setting can be a problem). So then I got the 76. Scored exceptional deals, probably under $1,000 for the pair. But they are both now unuseable. Both have problems with involuntary sustain pedal messages being sent. The really weird part is that for both, the problem developed several months after purchase, at least that's my perception. I've tried to use them anyway, just in my rehearsal studio. Now one has keys that just don't work. It's only a sample size of 2, but my opinion is they're crap. Gigging: Crumar Mojo 61, Hammond SKPro Home: Vintage Vibe 64 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dana. Posted February 11, 2010 Share Posted February 11, 2010 Unfortunately, Fatar/Studiologic's keybeds are superior to their electronics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Loving Posted February 11, 2010 Share Posted February 11, 2010 OP, you described a PC3. "Forget it, Jake. It's Chinatown." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanker. Posted February 11, 2010 Share Posted February 11, 2010 OP, you described a PC3. Except he doesn't need sounds A ROMpler is just a polyphonic turntable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timwat Posted February 11, 2010 Share Posted February 11, 2010 Isn't this what the (almost mythical) Numa Nano is supposed to be? Someday it will be released in the US. But I'm not holding my breath. .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Loving Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 OP, you described a PC3. Except he doesn't need sounds OOPs! I can sell him my PC2 and he can notes-off! Actually, in that case the vmk176 looks like a winner to me. "Forget it, Jake. It's Chinatown." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProfD Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 In addition to the VMK, the OP can wait for a Roland A70 to pop up for sale. It is a "76-note "organ-touch" weighted, velocity- and channel aftertouch-sensitive MIDI Master Controller". PD "The greatest thing you'll ever learn, is just to love and be loved in return."--E. Ahbez "Nature Boy" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reidmc Posted February 13, 2010 Author Share Posted February 13, 2010 OP here. . . It's ok if the board has sounds, they just aren't required. Looks like the new PC3 LE6 is a candidate, but probably a year until they hit the used market. Anyone played a Kurweil SP2? Keyboard and weight seem promising. "The Doomer allows the player to do things beyond which are possible without the accessory." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoodyBluesKeys Posted February 13, 2010 Share Posted February 13, 2010 My church has an SP2X - limited number of sounds, but everything needed for the purpose. We've had it for a bit over two years now, no issues at all (except they put such wide end caps on it that no standard hard case fits). There is not nearly as much ability to use it as a MIDI controller, but the entry price is a bunch lower. You might find a PC3 on the use market now, even possibly a PC361, but the LE6 is a bit new to find. If you found one at a good price, a K2600 would be a very good MIDI controller, though the size and weight is a bit much. Howard Grand|Hamm SK1-73|Kurz PC2|PC2X|PC3|PC3X|PC361; QSC K10's HP DAW|Epi Les Paul & LP 5-str bass|iPad mini2 "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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